Propaganda, Power & The Illusion of Choice

0:01 The propaganda works for the people that definitely benefit from being on the other side of the system, raking in the profits from all this. But it also works for us in some capacity, is that we now don't have to face the realization that we allow. We have allowed as a nation, as a soul of our nation.

0:17 We've allowed for who knows how long now, a whole entire class of second class citizens to exist within our ranks. Okay? Pretending that it's not something that's true and real. Pretending that there's no real reason why we have to give those people rights and give them the same privileges that everybody else and allow them to do the backbreaking, dangerous.

0:36 You know, dangerous and grueling work. Right? The dangerous, dirty and, you know, backbreaking work. That's why you tag them with the illegal. Right? So the propaganda on one side allows us to dismiss them because they're illegal. And then the other side, we can get we get to say, oh, well, they're they they need all these rights and privileges, but they never get them.

0:59 But, but but we still don't tolerate them never getting them. You see what I'm saying? We still we still vote for the same party, the same platform that ultimately doesn't serve them election cycle after election cycle. But we're allowed to then the propaganda that allows us to put ourselves on whatever moral side of the argument we're on and focus on the argument rather than the actual change solutions.

1:20 Right. And demand from our particular party or whatever. You know, people that that we that represent us, the propaganda and our erratic spinning our wheels in some kind of, you know, social media platform or something like this allows us to then ultimately never truly demand the change to to say no as a moral soul of our nation, we will not allow second class citizens to second class citizens is bullshit.

1:45 Right, right. And so all this stuff like oh, all these know micro nuances of what ice is doing and what they're not doing and all this kind of stuff. We get so clogged up in that arena that that's where our energy then dissolves, diffuses right where our energy really needs to be. On the actual architect of the system.

2:03 These are not bugs. These are features. And we we need to re we need to use the tools that have created the system to combat it. It's like, you know, to speak of Netanyahu. Netanyahu in the 70s, along with the guy who created Sam Adams Brewery, Jim Coke. They were they worked at, the prestigious, Boston Consulting Group.

2:28 Okay. Both Netanyahu and him, and they learned management, they learned consulting, they learned propaganda, they learned marketing, and they both came out and wildly succeeded. Jim Coke built Sam Adams Brewery and Boston Beer Company. And, you know, Netanyahu rose to the lofty heights of fucking running Israel and creating the state that it is. And, you know, so these things really speak about what propaganda and mastery of it can do for you.

2:57 Yeah. So the also propaganda is that we aligned in our camps. We're Democrat or Republican mostly. Like that's our choice for real, not real, our real choices. Right. And then each one of those camps, when we look at the actual like, how did they how well did they actually perform for us when, when our party, if you will, like we're Democrats, let's say, and when our party was in office, they didn't fix the immigration problem.

3:18 They didn't give a pathway to citizenship. They didn't rewrite the laws when they could. When they had the House, the Senate and the president, they had half a tribe like DACA, but they had the capability to do it. And they did. It was shit. Yep. It was it like did the speed of it. They tried to like, rush everything through so fast.

3:35 People were mess. People were fucked over. It just it was not that it's not okay. And so what I'm saying that is that when the Democrats were fully in power and had they had the power of the pen to make the change, they didn't do it. And we had like, we had attempts, we had and we had the dreamers.

3:50 But that got fizzled out. And now the Republican and Maga, whatever the hell they want to label ass right gets into power. They decide to now do this thing. So what happened by the inaction of the Democrats through that time when they had the power to put in the right way because they could have codified all the things we're worried about.

4:08 They could have codified women's rights. They could have codified into law an actual path to citizenship. And so what happens at the ultimate at the end of the day, you have these people dining in these fine restaurants, these politicians with their Republican, Democrat cross our friends, dining in the same restaurants together, toasting one another. Right, laughing all the way to the fucking banquet.

4:26 They're not asking for backbone between the one of them, right? When when they grandstand out in front of the public for the propaganda, for the political theater. And we all take it in and watching for Mark camps and argue on social media and fizzle away while the same bullshit continues time cycle after cycle after cycle. Okay, sorry Democrats, but that's what my way I see it.

4:46 That's just the way I see it, because I think it's the truth. I completely agree. And so why don't we stop collectively, right, worrying about what camp we're in and start focusing on what actually happens? Okay. Yes. The shift that's happening with ISIS is totally fucked up. But at the same time, by not doing anything for some long, we enabled that perfect storm to happen to allow this to happen so swiftly and so easily within her government.

5:09 Now we can take that. We could have a president that could literally take a raging pile of shit on our Constitution, and 30% of the population is like, cool. Yeah, this is complete. And to do this not with law, not with the power of the purse, but really vibes. Executive orders that give general direction have destroyed the the very spirit of where that we were headed as a nation, fully explaining why it's okay as well from that 30% is insane.

5:41 Yes. And so well and I actually I have three men sitting with me who also goes, you all take an oath, correct. To defend your Constitution, to defend the Constitution. We have thousands of other people in this country who were taking that oath. And then we have thousands of people within that 30 to 40% of people who are like, well, fuck it.

5:58 And then we have the people actively in the military who are taking orders from our president that directly and just clearly violate the constitutional rights of so many people in this country. And it's it it honestly, I want to know, like what? How does that feel to three men who have taken an oath not to defend a president, not to defend a person, but to defend the Constitution and the people of this country.

6:23 So if you see people just actively shitting on in a half a sentence, it feels fucking gross. But go ahead, Chris. When might, in my opinion, like the okay, so like when you look at the actual effective effectiveness of like, what you took the oath to, to defend the Constitution, there you go. And you understand and learn about the Constitution, all that kind of stuff.

6:44 You then look at just this long history of like, how is that actually being applied? So in practice, in application, all the different the channels that are supposed to be in place in the Constitution have all been disrupted or hijacked by new processes, new micro procedures, like, for example, you have all these like lobbyists crawling around Washington. And the legislature are responsive to industry industrial complexes rather than to the people 100% for sale.

7:12 Ralph Nader wrote a book called The Incognito that talks about how the political is completely, 100% unresponsive to this citizenry anymore. It's it's long gone. There is no representation of the people anymore in any regard. You can't go talk to your senator and that's closed door. They're unattainable. Right. But if you're part of some kind of, you know, you're part of some kind of big business, an interest, you're you're you have a direct line.

7:33 Yeah. And so the idea of we has been hijacked anyways. It's a government by the people for the corporations. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. And we but we have some people trying to create cracks and drill down and break it apart, you know, to varying degrees. I mean, you know, you've got like David Hogg, who was pushed out by the Democratic establishment Democratic Party establishment.

7:53 He wants an independent, you know, PAC, as it were, the free from industry money. Bernie Sanders, AOC comes out, Ilhan Omar shot themselves. There's foot shoving. They now have another way to say I think is is what about you? Oh I'm sorry. Go on. How does it affect you having the propaganda of people being fed that this is okay, that we, you know, you have you a military personnel who was in who was in the military, a veteran, you were told to uphold this Constitution.

8:27 You were not a single person non administration. And you have people defending active violations to the American people from the Constitution. How does that I think it's easier to talk about sitting here. Yeah. Is actually being in uniform. I think that part of it is while you have people that are against it, it's one of those you're afraid to speak out, to be ousted.

8:54 Absolutely. I think that might have a large portion of the sway in the new rules. So once you're out it's easier to talk about it I think. So once you're out there and we're no longer under that, of course. Also. Well, yeah. And I, I'm not subject to that oath anymore. Well, and that's at the, at the same time fulfilled my obligations.

9:15 Right. Yeah. And, and it's one of those things that like, you just, you know, it's easy I think as a lower level airman or private or anything like that, it is harder to stand up than it is. Absolutely. So one of colonel general along those lines taking that stand. And I think that's where it has to start.

9:43 I've started I haven't the top down. I have a parallel for you. Right. Who's that. When I'm in I'm when I'm in Iraq fighting okay. And the mission is to you know take this territory get go captured this person and so forth. When, when that's the mission and it's serious. That's that's the focus of your world, right? Your focus on the world isn't like, you know, how does the Constitution play and what the president just said.

10:06 You don't even know what the president said. You're so you're isolated. You're focused on this, like really detailed mission. You have to be life and death. Right? So it's like all 100% high stakes moment to where you're doing this mission in your full capacity of your brain is focused on that, right? You know, thinking about Constitution, thinking about how are we going to do this?

10:23 Yeah. Right. Well, yeah. You're built up throughout your time in the military to focus on the mission, the mission 100% and then. Yeah. And then I didn't have that. Yeah. Weighing on anything that I would have even thought about while I was. Yeah. And so and so you have like, you know, hyper stressed, financially stressed, you know, soccer mom.

10:40 You know, it's like there's similar commonality there. Like they're trying to get their life working right. And that's the mission. So like the wonder about the Constitution, you know like the Constitution, how it's being applied, if it's, you know, been hijacked or, you know, it isn't even in the frame of mind because there's there's the boots on the ground, immediate, you know, momentary thing that you're dealing with that takes you're that where you're where your focus and attention is necessary, right.

11:05 To be successful in that micro because you're trying to be successful in your macro just to get to that point. So the debate to to even sit here and have these kind of conversations even is a luxury, you know, it's like it shows that of the hierarchy of needs where we're like, you got at least a few steps up the pyramid because we have the luxury to enjoy a nice meal and sit down and have this fine conversation and so like.

11:26 But when shit's really happening, not only the luxury to sit down and have the conversation, but to post it to a forum where other people listen. Yeah, right. We have a platform that we built for that was more affordable, you know. Yeah. Right. But yeah, but but that's to recognize that as important. Right. So like the, the the layers of which the social engagement needs to take place to really tackle these wild wicked problems.

11:51 Right. Is requires that us to build a stable base and then also at least a little bit enough galvanization from the propaganda. So there's enough time freed to even go after these high, lofty issues. Right? Right. Because otherwise you're just down in the trenches. Meiring at you know what, the latest social justice warrior, you know, thing is. So what I'm saying.

12:11 Yeah. And so there's a there's a derivative of propaganda that works on all these different levels and domains. Here's a brilliant fucking piece of propaganda. Go visit the Capitol and go look at the Declaration of Independence. Go to all the monuments. Right. And you get this. You get a double impression. One is that there's this stable long term system in place, and two, military is dominant feature.

12:40 Right. Because all the memorials are about war, some type of engagement. Right. Like like war is a big component of our history. If just take it all in as a whole, right. And that there's some type of core backbone, legitimate thing that's been long term preserved and adhered to our Constitution, a bill of rights. And that's because then you get this impression that that's the reality.

13:02 Okay. But the actual reality is that we have the school house rock mentality and propaganda and how a bill becomes a law. Right. But they're on Capitol Hill, right? And this idea that some body in the House of Representatives comes up with a piece of legislation to help their to serve their constituents and work for the people in their jurisdiction.

13:23 Right, right. Creates a piece of legislation, raises it on the floor, they vote on it. It goes to the Senate, gets pass president vetoes vetoes it or passes it, and then it becomes available. Three branches. Yeah that's right. That's the way. And then then if there's any kind of scrutiny, the judicial branch will come in and decide if it's constitutional or not.

13:40 If that's the that's how it balances. But we don't mention lobbyist. Yeah. How does a bill right now in 2026 come into effect. It's written by the lobbyists to represent it. Right. It's written by a corporation. And bought. Yeah. Well, and I have to say, a and I think that is supposed to be when you have I think the biggest propaganda we've had is that the you can have a Senate or a Congress or a Supreme Court system that is stacked one way or the other like that.

14:10 It's like people saying that that's okay, that's okay, that's what everybody does. Then you have a Democratic president does this Republican budget. That's bullshit, is absolutely that's complete bullshit. That is not how you get a government by the people, for the people you have to have, you know, 30 Democrats. Yes. You have to have 30 Democrats, Republicans, 17 independents, 17 the Socialist.

14:31 And then you have to have the Supreme Court. It's the same way. You need to have two Republicans, two Democrats, two socialists, two independents. And you cannot, like, stack something in your fucking favor. You need a coalition rather than a bias, right? You can't stop a civilization in your favor. You can't stack a civilization in your favor because there's going to be people of all walks of their tribe.

14:53 They sure are trying. Damn right they like we've been fed this bit of propaganda that this is all okay. Like it's okay that Obama made it all Democratic happen. Yeah, short term limits needs to happen. The career politicians are okay this and that. Like okay, they're public servants. Why are they making seven figures and full health care benefits and then salaries and a lifetime pension after five years, who gets to have no one?

15:22 Literally no one. My dad did politics. Oh, no retirement plan. You know, I was a truck driver for pretty fucking years. 40 years? Yeah. He's struggling to get his pension. Oh, really? He was a truck driver for 40 years. He ended up getting cancer. We tried to get his pension. They said no, he died. Now my mom only gets fucking half.

15:43 Half of the thousands of dollars that man paid into that pension. I have entire fucking life. Jesus. His entire life. Pension. And she gets half. What the fuck? And there's some, you know, there's some. What are they doing with the rest of that shit? Oh, there's a hedge fund there or someone getting the dividends and. Oh, yeah, and the, growth and all this.

16:03 Exactly. So, this propaganda that you talking about, you're talking about this like smoking, drinking. You're talking about this. We're talking about this old right? Is that, there again is another propaganda tool. And so you go into the military, you take this oath and they're not, they're they're not requiring you to take a test to verify your understanding of the Constitution with any type of death.

16:23 There's no test at all, first of all. And you're you're pledging an oath to something that the average person wouldn't even have hardly a just a vague understanding of. It's basically the pledge of allegiance to the military. Yeah. They go there. You know, I yes, I have an oath to the Constitution. I pledge to uphold the Constitution. Repeat after me.

16:40 You say these words and you sign your name and all this kind of crap. You just sign your name to something you don't even understand. Big word. Yeah, but but it's. But it's part of the pomp and circumstance to get that person's propaganda in their mind up to a level where they're going to perform well as a soldier because their star bangle that spit, you know, they have star bangles eyes, spangled eyes, you know, lands like I want you say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning.

17:02 You know, they have that name with the eagle. You know, the eagle with the machine guns, with the American sign right there, right here. And so I'm sure that's all the propaganda. I might have grown up saying propaganda every morning before school, before the bell rang, saying, my pledge of allegiance. But I sure as hell did not grow up saying, with justice for all to end up here, right?

17:22 Like, this is bullshit. And, you know, hey, you know, we may all see you all seeing the military parades with the Jesus Bacon Wind tank 9000 running through. Hey, one day and, you know, we may have all, you know, we were all fed this, but. Yeah, they're right. I've never been fed a Jesus bacon thing, but they were all trying to feed us this, and now they're completely counter to it.

17:51 And, you know, and I think that's one of the biggest things that's defending all of us. It's like we swallowed all this to a degree, and now you're just boldface saying it doesn't matter. You're throwing it out I don't know, we don't all probably agree that the propaganda started with religious institutions. Yeah. No, I'm honestly saying yes. It doesn't matter.

18:10 I think that if we find it, if we do, I can find some type of pathway to, to a degree, galvanize ourselves from it is that's where we can start to make true personal progress for ourselves in our family. But otherwise I think it stands in aggregate as a counterpoint to to what we are trying to accomplish as human beings.

18:27 Like, I think that the collective, you know, effect of all the propaganda on us as individuals is, is really numbing and terrible detrimental. It deflects us from other things that ultimately we need to take care of that really do matter. All right. Because the oath that I took to the Constitution when I was in the military was worth the paper was printed on, right?

18:47 Because I didn't even understand as much as you know, I know more today about the Constitution than I did that time. I knew the basics. I knew the basics, but I didn't know what I was truly thing into exactly what Quinn was saying. You know, you're 18, you're probably report that recruited from a poorer, economically disadvantaged community or economic strata.

19:06 I know I was and you know, so they recruit the poor. They recruit the uneducated. You know. Oh, now, if you're in the Air Force, they referred to intelligent and capable. Well, I backed myself into a corner. And ultimately that was what I ended with. It was either that or go bag groceries or nachos. Well, you chose the better, best, correct?

19:26 Yeah, correct. So the, another form of propaganda that we have that we're faced with is this, false form of empowerment. Like we believe to some extent that these rights exist and that these liberties and freedoms exist, and that through our Constitution, our rule of law, and we go out into this world with this false sense of security, false blanket of, that's very I think we're starting to see just how false that sense security is.

19:51 Indeed. It's scary to have that realization that the propaganda that we were exposed to throughout all of our growing up is that we are indeed protected from these liberties and true power. At the end of that fucking gun, when you get shot in the face is revealed. Yes. And I'm sorry, that person that gets shot in the face right out there has suddenly been revealed in a most tragic way, where the power is in.

20:13 Ultimately, another piece of that propaganda we were fed is that the moral arc of the universe tends towards the good. It does not. By default. We have to work for that. That's what I wrote. I wrote something down, the other day I thought about it. So I said, all of your rights and civil liberties are written in blood.

20:29 Nonviolence is a tactic is only effective against an opponent with a conscience. So, like you, all of our civil liberties and these things in this propaganda in our Constitution that we have are all written in just straight up blood, the blood of everybody who came before us. And we're just living in the context of those people. And that's why, like earlier, when I said one of the biggest propaganda we've been fed is that violence is never the answer.

20:58 And that's always said by people who use violence to get where they are. And people who use violence to continue to stay where they are. That's because they don't want violence done on to their bones. Why they push that. Hell yeah. So, so this lady sitting behind the wheel of her car has this false perception from pop again, probably a bunch of shit she watched on TikTok on how she can really help, you know, work against ice by going out there with her car and blowing our horn and bull and, you know, blowing into a whistle and.

21:28 Yeah, and hollering at the holler at the ice cream it and I'm calling them pigs. They call it ice fishing. Right. Goes out. She has in her mind, somehow the propaganda has got to her, make her believe that that's something that's legitimate for her to do. That's going to make some kind of value. That's a value virtue signal for her.

21:45 She's been virtue signal that that's something that she can do that's virtuous. And her use of her time, which as much as she's out there doing that. So as much as we'd all like to hinder Ice and cause problems with them and. Yeah. And so, like, what happened tragically is that the power that was the power dynamic that really was in play, the truth outside the propaganda windows.

22:05 Right. The actual truth of the power that was in that momentary situation that was revealed tragically, they've got a gun. You don't 100% and and the badge and the authority. Right, right. And so I'm not saying that we all need to kowtow to authority. You know, there's a time and place where do you stand up? There's a time and place to stand up, and there's completely legitimate ways to do that.

22:25 So the Black Panthers starting to show up in Philly and, Pennsylvania. Black Panther Party for Self-Defense is also existing in North Carolina. Yes, they are, and they are showing up to protest armed to the teeth with their Second Amendment rights. Long guns, long guns and information about civil rights. You want to know. You want to know how to how to really effect the change and take the like.

22:46 If you look past the propaganda, if you wouldn't really want to affect change, is at work within your community to help people that are on the other side of this, this equation. Yeah. The people that are the second class citizens. Yeah. And pull them in and help them find resources. Well, mutual aid that works is what mutual aid.

23:02 Mutual aid network. That's what we started. I started a thread of over 150 moms who were willing to help pick up kids from schools, helping deliver food delivered. That's the kind of advocacy that I think know well. It's not everybody in the revolution. Not everybody's going to be fighting in the streets. Some people are going to be cooking for the army.

23:18 Some people are going to be, just supplying the water, dressing the wounds. They're going to be taking care of the children, you know, and so many ways to affect change. And as much as like, I would love to be on the frontlines and out there blowing whistle and, you know, alerting everybody and doing all that and fighting like, tooth and nail for the rights that I know each fucking human deserves.

23:41 Right. Not even just on a constitutional level, just on a humanity level, like we all deserve those simple fucking liberties. And I would also say, like, do this in a completely measured and calculable way to where you're still protected that like, like you said earlier, put your mask on first before you put them as I have to.

23:57 I don't put put the children, don't put someone else's mask on. Put yours on first because you need to be protective for yourself and your family first, right? That's right. And then within the the the reasonable margins and risks that you can take do that. Yeah. So like help yourself first and then help someone else if you can't.

24:13 And I would argue don't always consider them reasonable margins. Extend yourself a little bit maybe tend towards the unreasonable because that's the only way we're going to get stuff done. If we if we just do a quiet mutual aid network, things will continue to get worse. We're still inundated with the people we're trying to help. Exactly. We have to extend ourselves.

24:34 We have to take a little risk. We have to put some skin in the game to actually affect and help the community. Like the Black Panthers had breakfast programs and now you had afterschool programs. And they had they extended themselves a little bit with resources and put themselves out there. And, you know, the FBI and the CIA went ahead and sabotaged their programs.

24:54 Someone broke in one of their churches and pissed on all the food one day. That's what's so all right. You two people did this. They tried to peacefully do things for years, and nothing worked. Nothing happened, nothing changed. And then they threw a few bricks at windows and fucking rioted for days. And then when they finally got some semblance of riots, like, it's not always a peaceful in the street, blowing a whistle on the sideline or sharing a post on the internet, sometimes it is gross and grueling and scary, and it.

25:26 I don't think anything's going to get better until we have people that are willing to understand that it's going to have to be both like, it's going to have to be peaceful, but it's also going to have to be not yes, yes. I mean, I don't I'm totally in the idea of like generating propaganda on the other side, generate propaganda for advocacy against having second class citizens to go to the go to the media and keep in state propaganda stick energy.

25:51 There, you see, of undocumented immigrants and the beautiful things they apply to this country by just fucking being here. And fair enough. All together bloom us, the people. Yeah. And see, that's not that's not really dangerous night. That's not dangerous territory. As far as risking anything personally because the truth and it's and it's nothing to you know, it's also kind of unusual right in the media right now because if you go out there and you say, hey, second class citizen marries the problem, wealth inequality is the problem, and you spend a lot of time and energy advocating for those things and pulling people's minds in that direction to start thinking and working on those problems.

26:25 Now you're effecting real change, right? This this boots on the ground, you know, micro vigilante. There's a there's there's all this stuff that that's danger zones because like, we have these like layers of propaganda where we have these false beliefs of, of realities that might not be in place. For example, I think that, oh, I can post all this stuff online and it doesn't it's not going to come back to me.

26:44 So be careful. Right. Oh, there's a protest over there and there's a pile of bricks. Oh, I'm going to chuck this brick at the ice. You know. Right. The front line of, of riot ice agents, you know, cracking down on people. And there's this there's just warfare between the protesters and the thing. So I'm going to throw this at them.

27:00 Right? But you throw the throwing snowballs that I is pretty fun. That's hilarious and wonderful. There's snowballs. Different snowballs have a brick, too. But you throw the baloney. They're throwing baloney on their windshields, so they're boring. Piss on them. Yes. And filthy filled water balloons. Like, what else was that dragging on the, pouring the ice. Fighting ice with ice is probably my favorite.

27:22 Boring, boring driving by ice, locations and pouring water out as they drive by to get frozen, walkways. Offense going against the positive message that Chris is trying. I know I know 100%. Yeah, but it's snowing sometimes. You can't be positive, sometimes you can't be peaceful. Okay, so the ice person, the person that's working for ice. Okay.

27:43 But let's be fair. But let's be human. Humanize all. Humanize me. Let's just not be fair. Let's just humanize everyone involved. This person signs up the ice, let's say, because they believe that it's important in our country to enforce the laws on the books. And the laws on the books are saying, if you're in this country legally, you are, not supposed to be and you're supposed to be getting, you know, you're here legally.

28:06 You create a crime is the process, is that you are deported. Okay? And they believe in that. Let's just say, okay, independent of right or wrong morality, all that discussion, they just believe we're humanizing this person. They believe that that's the right thing to do. Okay. And they. Right. And they're like, yeah, that's right. And they believe. And they take an oath when they sign up for this ice to conduct themselves within the boundaries of the parameters of what they're ordered to do, follow the DHS policy, follow the part.

28:34 Right? Yeah. Perfect. And so that they do this DHS policy, they're working. They're paying their taxes. They have a job creating this function that is legal from the government. The government has made this illegal, pathway to do you're you're deputized by the federal government, right. To do this with your 47 week or ten days of training.

28:52 Okay? Because that's what the government says. The training is, right. Because of this person. It was the training because he's the 47th president. Nice. Okay. So you you know, you go through all this, you go through all this like thing from this person's perspective. You follow their their logic and their perspective. Right? And now they're out there in the street, dressed up as an Ice agent.

29:13 You know, they do that South Park to keep that in South Park. Mr. Mackey, you. That's what's so funny. And they raided heaven. Yes, I, I like to say they're cosplaying federal agents. That's okay, that's fine. That's cosplay. It's cosplay. So. So let's humanize this person. So this person, through that propaganda lens, right. Ends up on the street standing out there in the cold in Minneapolis or whatever.

29:35 Right. And that's that person, A person B is a social justice warrior on TikTok, you know, constantly scrolling videos of the algorithms feeding her about, like how to disrupt ice and blah, blah, blah. And she drops her kid off from school and she's like, now go drive straight to where the rallies and whatever where this known encounter is happening because someone put on one of her message boards, here's where they're at.

29:56 And so she goes and locates herself in that area, is blowing the whistle like, you know, we talked about. And so she is coming at it through her moral slash propaganda window, right, to put her in that position now. So now we've placed person B. Now person A and B are both place and we've humanized both of them.

30:13 Both of them have what they perceive as good intentions. They're doing it for reasons that they feel is correct. Okay. And now both of them have a tragedy happen. So the gunfire goes off right? We all know what happened. And now we have a fucking dead lady that didn't need to be dead. And some dude, regardless of you know, I would assume that that's gonna like, I kind of know a little bit about war.

30:38 It doesn't just go away after the moment like it's you live with that event. Yeah. One way or another, you live with it. Okay. Maybe for him it's easy to live with. But for most normal people, it's not for him. It might be a mental trophy. It might be a touch, positive touch point in his life. But assuming assuming or assuming that the not knowing anything, let's just assume then like what the default most likely are.

31:02 Okay, is that this guy has to live with the rest of his life. She's her life's gone. And then her son and all this. Some fucking tragedy. Right? Let's look at it as they're both victims of propaganda. They are these absolutely victim. The everyone who signs up for life is a fallen victim of propaganda. Because they're reading into the these people are domestic terrorists.

31:25 These people are that these people are that you know, you got fucking ugly. Caroline. Leave it on there. Right, right. Like, oh, everybody on the left is either a Hamas terrorist or a domestic terrorist, like, or they're being paid by George Soros. God, I wish I was getting a paycheck. These fuckers, I wish I was getting a paycheck.

31:43 But but what I'm saying is, they are these good people in a bad situation, and they're good people. Just because they've been, you know, they got coerced by this propaganda. And are they actually, at the core, good people, just in a bad situation? I would on the side. Normally I would on the side of they're probably good people in a bad situation, but then you realize you haven't seen the Proud Boys out since I came about.

32:10 Yeah, and we all know the Proud Boys and we have been around for two decades. I have been around for two decades. Kids say that specifically because the Proud Boys have been out, you know? Okay. But since okay, we'll say the era ice, Trump era ice and. Okay. What what that Norwegian side ice list is right. Supposedly claims to have 6000 records of people that have either worked for Ice or currently work for Ice.

32:41 It. And ultimately, one of the things they brought out was, hey, the leader of the Proud Boys, Enrique Tarrio, he's a member of Ice. One of the things they brought out was, you know, several other prominent white supremacist members of Ice. So, you know, it's kind of like how you don't see Superman and Clark Kent in the same room at the same time, right?

33:05 Right, right. It's like that. So you have you have a majority of these people that are signing up because, yes, they are the victims of the propaganda. But you I don't believe you can fall victim to that propaganda without being a little bit of a piece of fucking shit. Yes. And to have evil that just accepting that propaganda also accepts the intent that leads from that propaganda, that leads on what your intent and your actions are going to be.

33:31 Are not exactly society building and civilization building. You can accept and humanize these people, and you can say they're a victim of propaganda, but what they do, they're still responsible for, if you kill a man or regardless, you are responsible for it, whether or not you are a victim of propaganda. If you kill a woman or you drag a pregnant woman through the street, or you know you attack a 17 year old kid while they are employed at Target in Minnesota, or you fucking, you know, whatever these people might do, even if they're being led through the nose ring of propaganda, I was just following orders is not a defense.

34:03 Yes. So and I feel like unfortunately, that's, that's a piece of what you're saying. Once we humanize them and we accept their under propaganda, we still have to say, you know, doesn't matter. And if you're and if your propaganda brought you to the point where you're out there interfering with an official function of a police officer or a federal agent, you are committing a crime.

34:28 No, you're not, you're not. You're not committing a crime. Obstruct, any reporting? Some wonderful decent. No, no, I didn't say recording. I said an interfering. Obstructing with the duties of an officer is or is a crime. And civil disobedience is one of the biggest forms of protesting is disobedience is one thing. But when you're interfering with the duties as an actual crime, well, so you minting.

34:49 No fucking way, I said interfering, but what is interfering? And so that's okay. That's the big debate. What is obstruction? Because Ice is using this blanket umbrella of obstruction to just arrest people. So I see cargo is fine by me. Okay. On the highway car, fine by me on the highway. And it's pretty crowded. Highway. A really fast car goes by and I see sirens come up and I pull in the lane to block the officer from getting to that.

35:12 I mean, that's clear obstruction. Okay, well, there you go. That would be a crime. I just committed a crime. I asserted myself into the situation where I didn't wasn't part of the situation, and I obstructed what that officer was trying to do. But insinuating yourself in a situation when someone's clearly abusing someone isn't necessarily obstruction. But, you know, if you see a cop over down, let's say we'll use a regular cop.

35:38 For example, if you see a cop down in the park beating the ever living shit out of somebody who is unarmed and needs fucking help, that's a crime. That's a crime, right? The cop abusing his power. It's a crime. If you say now, if I know the context and the cop is just beating him for no reason, if the cop is like the guy's got a knife or something that I don't know, and I go interfere with the how.

36:00 But if you if you. Okay, we can just go through any of the scenarios. But the point is, is like there is obstructing the duties of an officer is a crime. I'm just making that point. But they are law and they are. First of all, they're not officers. They're they're they are Ice or not law enforcement. They are not law enforcement, which I'm not very fond of these people myself.

36:18 No, I know, but they're not Leos. They're not square. I'm also not fond of the idiots out there doing things that they shouldn't be doing, and inserting themselves in situations where they don't have the right to insert themselves. I don't think that's a smart move either. It's not a smart move. I don't think it's proper move. I don't think it's a smart move, but I think it's almost an essential move.

36:38 Yeah, they need that. You need to be sand in the gears, so to speak. So if we're comparing ice to the modern day Gestapo or modern day like slave catchers in the Jim Crow era, right. What would you what would you then be if in that time you did not act like you didn't do anything like, oh well you have a slave and right, like, are you 1875 or right, are you John Brown or are you not like right.

37:09 It's right. I mean ultimately that decides how history unfolds, whether or not you're on the right side of history. Yeah. So a lot of history is written by the victors, right? So not knowing how the history is going to unfold, this and being in families and communities and situations, right. We have to make calculated risks and these things and not allow the propaganda for us to go through and then be motivated by the propaganda to do things that we wouldn't normally do or shouldn't be doing well.

37:33 And that's what I'm getting at, I true, but I also think we can't fall victim to the propaganda that's telling us to blindly comply. Yes, because what I'm being exposed to more what I was saying earlier, I've been exposed to the comply part a lot more lately. Yeah. So what I was saying before is. No, it's always it's out there now.

37:52 It's out there. It's just comply, bro. Yeah, right. It really is. And that's the first time I heard compliance. The first time I heard just comply or comply or die. Is that the first time you've heard that? Yes, I have no. Okay. Well, no, but I'm not tapped into this stuff. But that's that's what these right wingers are saying.

38:08 So what I was saying earlier is that throughout history, civil disobedience and obstruction of illegal police activity has historically been the most effective form of protest. That is what we did during Jim Jim Crow era, with black people sitting at segregated counters just in Rock Hill where I live, there's a place, a restaurant called counter, and that is where 515 black, Rock Hill residents came and they sat at that counter.

38:37 And that was fucking illegal, right? That was illegal. And and that's where that's where the resistance needs to lie, is we have to be willing to do the illegal and the which is sit at the front of the bus, sit at the lunch counter where you're banned. And the white people that help them were considered to be obstructing.

38:56 So while yes, under the, the, the, the law, it's the current law. It's, it's x y z the effectiveness of civil disobedience and law enforcement obstruction has been the most effective form of protest because we move the needle like like when and said from legal to we bring in the moral argument against the legal right. It is our duty as a people to hold law enforcement accountable.

39:27 That is why the Fourth Amendment, the First Amendment, exists in the first place, not just to protect you from saying whatever the fuck you want on the internet to be able to document, record, follow. You can follow the fucking police if you want to. And that's and that's not obstruction. Right. But they're looking at it as obstruction.

39:45 They're trying to say all of these activities, they're actively saying they're recording the security cameras for recording them. They're like there it's going. So I'm going to be like devil's advocate in the fact that I'm going to say, look, if I know the context of the situation, I know what the fuck is going on. And I know there's a genuine injustice occurring.

40:04 Right? And I know what's happening, okay. And I know the situation. I will definitely act. That's who I am. Absolutely. I'm I'm a brave motherfucker when it comes to that kind of thing. When it comes to something that I don't know anything about, I'm damned if I'm going to serve myself in a situation where I don't know what's going on and really fuck up and ruin my life, and possibly somebody else's, because I don't know what I'm doing, especially if I'm like, buzzing with with this dreaming idea of, some type of rogue vigilante because I watched a bunch of TikToks, officer who was in my window.

40:37 I'm not going to say name and badge number. Let me talk to a sergeant. I'm a free traveler or whatever. What the fuck? There's a lot of that. I mean, they're talking about being a goddamn moron, but you watch a bunch of TikToks of a bunch of jackasses just being dickheads to police officers, and then you expect good outcomes.

40:54 And I'm not going to be a dickhead. But if you come to my door looking for my papers, I'm going to be like, hey, do you have a judicial warrant, man? Oh, you don't I'm sorry. I mean, there's nothing like that. Doesn't seem to you to unrealistic, but I'm talking about, like, someone that saw people acting a certain way through a social media channel because it's interesting and it gets a lot of you.

41:15 And then going out and acting like that on the street like a moron, it's not going to serve. Yeah. Wait until you're that is like what they say. Fuck around, find out. Yeah. That's going to lead to a fuck around, find out moment in your life. Now you got a goddamn criminal record. You can't ever get a job.

41:31 Your life is turned upside down and ruined because you were stupid and watched a bunch of stupid TikToks and started thinking, but something ugly didn't. Honestly, reality in the case of her any good and the propaganda that's being spewed about what happened with her on either side, I wouldn't have done a single fucking thing different. Let's just let's be clear about that.

41:50 Like, because I would not have done it if I saw that happening within my own community and like the area where I live or something, I, I wouldn't have done a single thing. So. So I did not have my children with me. Right. Would you drop your kids off at school and then get on some kind of channel to find out where ice is, and then drive your car over to that area?

42:09 Would you even do that? Yeah, I've done it. I don't suggest that behavior I is that could lead to some sudden consequences that weren't anticipated. You might have done that with the intention, but that could go south. You're absolutely right that it could go south. And I mean, unfortunately, I've. You have less to lose. I you do do.

42:29 Yeah. But this is what we're trying to argue for. Correct this. You have to put yourself on the fucking line if you want some change, if you're actually right or die for your fucking community, you got to be out there sometimes. Yes. And what I, what I know, like is if if I dropped my kids off at school and then my friend who actively tracks or follows these people, if they're in my area and she lets me know, hey, ISIS raiding this restaurant, we need people on the ground.

42:55 We need people to document. Can you come help? I would absolutely go, no, no questions asked. If my kids were safe and at school, I would let them know where I was going. And I would go, yeah. And I would document and I would have my whistle and I would have my things that I needed to make sure people in the area knew they were there, but that that's what I'm saying.

43:15 Like the, the stark difference, people were like, oh, Charlie Kirk could have been me. No, no, no, no, that would not have been you. But you know what, Rene? Good. Could have been so fucking many of us, right? And I wouldn't have done anything different. She she wasn't blocking people from going around. People that like 11 she was there's okay, there's maybe your perspective.

43:34 She was telling the the ice if she was around them. Do I have a perspective that I think is unique in this situation? Okay. And that is like I've seen real power dynamic unfold and had unfold quickly many times, many, many times I've seen it why in real life. And I realize that something that that it's like we're describing can turn into a very high stakes life and death situation very, very rapidly, very unpredictable.

43:58 When you have all these emotions, all these ideas, all these propaganda, you know, wrapped up in people's brains, and they're acting out some part, some role, the role playing, like you said, right. Some part that's in their head on how they're supposed to act in this situation. By God, that can go south really quick. When you have military and paramilitary forces involved and you have mob mentality involved, this whole fucking thing can spiral in ways that you are unimaginable to like until you experience it and you realize the actual potential high stakes consequences that are there, then you can start to make different decisions about these kind of things.

44:29 You need to be like, wait a minute, I know that x, y, z can happen and can happen with a high degree of frequency and with extremely fast not time to think reactionary time,