0:01 So I was telling you, the day I was headed off to that humanist meeting, I was a guest. It's all very right. Yeah. Salisbury. Which is strange. You wouldn't expect Salisbury, Carolina to be a big humanist, but they have a pretty good, pretty good size. And it's one of the richest cities in North Carolina. Highest per capita number of millionaires live there.

0:21 Really? Yes. Okay. Crazy. I would never guess that. Sure. Wine's out of their food. Line was founded there. Bunch of stuff. No kidding. Yeah. I learned something new every day. Well, Sue is from Salisbury. I know that. No, I didn't. Yeah. She was born and raised. That's cool. So, she. I think she went to Rowan High School and all this kind of stuff, so I assumed that it's in Rowan County.

0:45 Is where? Okay. Yeah. And so, anyway, they, I'm a human, the celebrant. And so they found me on the the registry. Cool. So they reached out to you and said you're local. Yeah. Right, right. And, the guy, like, kind of phone interviewed me real quick. And do you want to come up and be a guest speaker at our thing?

1:04 Yeah, I was like, cool. I'll be happy to do it. You know, it's like anything specifically going to want me to talk about. And he's like, yeah, like, what kind of ceremonies do humanists do? Right. No. So, like, weddings. End of life ceremony. Baby naming ceremonies. That's super cool. You name it. Like, humanist is ordained a humanist.

1:21 Celebrant is ordained to do all those different types of ceremonies for people like you can wed two people and then sign their certificates. Oh, wow. Same as in Dane from any other, you know, religion. Yeah. And so, anyway, the way that they do this format with their group meeting is they have, basically dinner first and then they, they pass around an agenda and after they kind of eat, which is cool.

1:48 They spend the they sit around and, you know, kind of loiter at this place, but they spend money, so it's okay. And the place wasn't very busy. So that works out to. All right. But then they they talk about business and they and in the meantime and leading up to their formal agenda that they had in leading up to that, they had a, just kind of like a not necessarily a roundtable, but just a common everyday discussion.

2:11 And so a lot of people were talking about Trump and they were talking about, like, you know, all the hot topics of the day. Sure. Okay. So just current events and happenings. Yeah. And, so I had prepared a speech specifically about humanist services and what, humanists offer, what type of services humanists offer. Right. And, so I had, like, literally on my phone, I had a presentation that I prepared.

2:36 Oh, nice. And, but I decided to just go rogue with my presentation based on what I heard around the table. Okay. The table talk. So just kind of riffing on everything people are talking about. Yeah, I, I, I don't know why I spontaneously decided to say, okay, I'll throw away all my notes and I'll just speak to the kind of things I heard everyone talking about.

2:56 Yeah. And Sue said it was amazing. Like, went over great, great. But I don't know, I, I feel like maybe, I feel like I feel like something that I might have hijacked it because of, you know, going off to the script. Well, I mean, I feel like it probably had a whole Age of Enlightenment vibe where, you know, hey, that's what started the coffee houses of old, right?

3:19 People, you know, getting together, speaking philosophy, talking about the problems of the day. And, I mean, if you, you picked up on what was resonating with the crowd. And that's why it hit so well. Yeah. I was talking about, like, you know, how in-group outgroup behavior, how that's a real human thing that we experience, right? All the time.

3:42 Groupies. You know, we have a tendency to form groups and pick teams. Yeah. It lets us survive. Yeah. It's carryover, apparently. From what? Biological evolutionary theory. Where, you know, we have a tendency to work to coalesce into groups. And the group, you know, groups, groups are more effective than individuals. And so therefore. Yeah. Yeah. That that evolved a stronger and stronger, you know, kind of makes sense of pressure for it to continue.

4:07 Yeah. But now in the modern era you can like be on a team, you know, like Team Nazi. You know, it's like so which is decentralized, spread across the world and horribly effective. Right. So we're talking about social media and all this kind of stuff. And then I said, well, one thing we have to try to do as humanists is not allow ourselves to end up with reduced empathy for people that are on another team that are that are in the outgroup.

4:29 Okay. And I really harped on that. Plus, you know, some things that people are saying and we're also talking about, children on electronic devices. Sure. And I tied in a recent experience that I had with, I was. I've been coaching to two soccer teams, one for my 13 year old son, the other one for my five year old son.

4:51 Gotcha. And the 13 year olds are like, they're there to have a good time, but they're also there to play, and they want to win. And, the, the younger group, they're they're just to be there and, you know, basically they, they're like, did we win instead of like, let's win, you know. Like, did we win? It's just hilarious.

5:12 Like when it didn't say, so what happened? Give me a summary. Right. Exactly. Yeah. They're very interested in whatever snacks are at the end of the game. Like during the game. During the game, like the ball's in play. So they're like, wandering over to the snack table. No, no, no wandering up to me and saying, what do we have for snacks?

5:32 No kidding. It's dead service, right? That's. So I was describing it. I had three kind of choice players on my team that were like, they're present, very active. Like, I don't know all their home situations. I don't know, they're mostly signs, my son. They're random. All the rest are random from my perspective. I didn't know all these kids.

5:53 And, I have three kids, predominantly on the team that are like their to play and their present, their focused. They're engaged. They're they're engaged with the activity. So you can use them as elements on the field to get things done. Correct. But I have seven players approximately that are for all intents and purposes, never never land. Like they're there somewhere out there just out of space.

6:17 So they're not present. Their checked out. They're not engaged. Yeah. It's a combination of being five years old and, very distracted. And is it distracted by home life? It's a distraction by digital media. Is it tracking? By what do you think? Yeah. My assumption is it's too much Roblox, Minecraft tablet. Whatever. All right. That's my that's my assumption because that's what they talk about all the time.

6:39 So, you know, probably isn't too big of a stretch, right? But, you know, it got me like, frustrated. But at the same time, if I didn't have these, like, three kids that were kind of the backbone of my team show up, you know, if, if one if one of them were missing, we're going to lose a game guarantee.

6:55 Wow. If all three of them show up, ironically, we'd win the game because I can just be like, you go here, you go there, they follow the directions, or we win. And they're reasonably, you know, for their age, their average skilled. None of them are like, superstar anything. But the fact that they could pay attention. Yeah. For that to put them in the game and shoulders above the rest.

7:13 Majorly. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. So it's like having three messes, you know, just because they're listening. Yeah. So anyway, for our final game, which was just this last Saturday. Two of my three didn't show. Dang. And I was like, we're in trouble. And sure enough, I basically had five kids on the field at the time with one of them playing, right?

7:38 And the other four were, like, literally wandering around the field like The Walking Dead. Yeah. And to describe them as zombies isn't really that much of a stretch. I think you said something to me earlier about the kid. Like counting his fingers, like obsessively counting his fingers. He was counting something up on his fingers. And the other team was bringing the ball down the field, and he was standing right in the middle of the field, and I was right behind him, literally two feet saying in his ear.

8:06 They're coming. They're coming. Kick the ball. They're coming. Oh. And he continued to be oblivious to what was happening around him, and almost like a almost like a soldier shell shocked, in the trench. I was like, yeah, like like stunned, you know, like completely dissociated association, you know, just like, almost like, I guess what I think of and I mean, this is going to go back to my personal experience, like taking a, you know, smoking salvia divinorum.

8:34 It's a dissociate and you end up feeling like you're behind a couple of panes of glass. You're removed from your ality. Yeah. Exactly what it was like. And so the ball literally came and hit him in the legs. He didn't even respond to that. The ball bounced off of him. He continued to be in his own stupor world, I don't know.

8:52 Yeah. And the other team then just scored and I'm like, okay, I just could laugh. I mean, we'll have a couple Star Trek references today. But one of them is that there's this episode of Star Trek where they take on this colonists, and the colonists are like, almost like Amish. They they they have their ancestors have like this reverence towards technology.

9:14 Like, you know, they they ward off technology like they, they they begin the application of it. They don't want to use it. They don't. They assume complexity that it brings. Exactly. So they bring on board like spinning wheels and, you know, sheep and, you know, all the and, Picard like, kind of breaks character a little bit and he starts laughing and Riker's like, you know, what are you doing?

9:33 And he's like, you know, sometimes you just have to bow to the absurd. We've talked about this before. That's right. Yeah, yeah. And that was my mentality 100% at this hour. I'm like, I got seven zombies on the field or whatever. Five out of six players in the field are just zombies. Wow. And, So, yeah, laugh it off and work with what you got.

9:52 I was, I was, I was like, kind of fronting because I was putting on a face of laughter. But inside I was like, damn kids, you know, like, just please, just just for five minutes. Just play. Yeah. So. So we can have our final game be a win. But, you know it. This is young kids, so it's still the mentality.

10:09 Like, everybody's a winner. You know, they have fun. And every gets a trophy and every trophy and medallion. And I even made them all gift bags and wrote the player handwritten note. That's pretty cool though. Trying to trying to, you know, be that guy. Yeah, man. And, so anyway, it's a good experience, but my takeaway was that, wow.

10:26 You know, this is really different from when I was a kid. Yeah. And not in, like, a nostalgia, you know? Old man back in. Yeah. Shaking your cane in the sky. Yeah, but literally remembering myself being an athlete as a kid. And that was like the game time was game time. Like, you know, there's even a you were in it for real.

10:44 I mean, you know, like there's that colloquial expression, like it's game time. Yeah. That comes from like a mentality. Right? Yeah. Of like you're stepping on that field, you're geared up. You're there to play. Yeah. That's that's the saying to I'm here to play. Yeah. You're on the field. You're on the pitch. You're invested. You know, and, I've got an anecdote that kind of dovetails with that, summers cousin Barry.

11:06 She was telling me the last time that we had talked that, you know, her son, he's like six. He is one of the only players that's engaged. Like you're talking about. You know, sometimes he'll, of course, be out there and socializing when he's supposed to be playing, but he plays. Yeah. And other kids are just kind of wandering about confused and kind of drifting, you know, and she she mentioned the same thing.

11:30 And she was saying she was an athlete and she was like, when I was out there, I was out there. It was like, yeah, it was serious business. And it was like a it was a it was a it was a, experience that was worth having. Yeah. And it was, a memorable to this day, you know, I remember playing sports at 5 or 6 years old.

11:49 Yeah. And she's sitting here every week. She's like, I'm frustrated. I'm so upset at these kids because she just can't understand how the competitive fire isn't there. Yeah. Yeah, totally. And I'm so to the best of that, I can piece together by hearing the parents talk. And, you know, you pick up things over time is that they're on digital media all the time, like these, these young kids.

12:11 So it's become the, the their pacifier. Yeah. Electronic babysitter. Yeah. Totally 100%. And also, many of the parents I heard talk about having their kids on meds. So, so there's a there's a chemical association. They're like a dual chemical association one, the one that the digital overexposure kind of brings in the brain the dopamine, serotonin and the hyper accelerated, you know, kind of brain brain cycle cycle.

12:37 Or, you know, adults are on two. Yeah. And then now you overlay that with some psychoactive medication and you probably not really too shocked the kids probably doing well just to be on the field. Right. Right. And, you know, when I, when I was that age. 5 to 8, I think I was on Dylan, which, you know, it's a seizure medication.

13:00 It suppresses neuron storms in the brain. But the practical effect of it is you cannot think you become a living zombie. For the most part, you respond to stimuli, but you don't quite process things the same. Other people would same way. And Jesus, my sense of humor was bad for a 5 or 6 year old, but it was even.

13:20 It was like a stratospheric bad. I just I did not understand what was funny. That was one of the side effects. Yeah, yeah. So that's the thing too, is there's so many elements in play, it's hard to like just just canvas and blanket. Say it's all, you know, this is the cause. Yeah, yeah. So like you said, the cycle of medication, the social, the media overdose, the, you know, all of it, all working together, maybe to some degree on that home, a degree of social isolation, you know.

13:49 Good point. So don't have those social skills. They don't know how to interact. Yeah. And so all those things kind of working together to create like a, kind of typical modern juvenile experience and, yeah, it's it's I feel like they're the kids are probably losing out on some, some kind of two things. One is like building a really good memories, like being engaged and being active and intense, you know, intensely focused on something.

14:15 They're kind of losing that. And I also think they're losing a degree of a kinesthetic, physiological, you know, brain training, you know, so that mind body connection. Yeah. Mind body connection, motor skills. Yeah. The physiological connection between mind and body. I think that they're losing out on a little of that because of the lack of focus and the just walking around a field, you know, kind of in never, never land versus trying to get the ball in the dead.

14:39 Awareness that spatial awareness, they wanted to bust out with this word the development of their proprioception and to understand, you know, where they are in space, what's happening, that engagement, they they're not holding any of that seems like not. Yeah. So maybe, we're we're caught in this paradox because maybe we say, oh, well, they're, they're learning different skills for the different time right now.

15:07 You know, you say, well, maybe it's kind of good that they're not that that into soccer because they're learning these digital, you know, and it's hard to know because there's, there's no there's no like real long term data yet because, you know, this is a relatively new phenomenon like always on you know, there was no cell phones when I was a kid.

15:23 Right. And, so this now kind of always on media 24 over seven digital access for young brains is, I think, a relatively new phenomenon. It is. And also to go ahead and discount that whole building skills for a new age. There's no blueprint. There's no, you know, playbook as to what you need to meet these skills head on, because we've never been in this space before, so we don't know if they're preparing for them or if they're moving to the right or the left and missing it completely.

15:56 Exactly. Yeah. That's. So maybe we shouldn't be experimenting. You know, if true. Lack of better terms on youth, maybe we should go with, like, kind of what we know. Yeah. And, because anecdotally, Gen, Gen Z in the workforce now, like kids in their early mid 20s are useless. They've been put up as not understanding technology, not knowing how to use it or apply it, and being completely fish out of water.

16:25 Whether it comes to engaging with a copier or a printer or, you know, any of this old school technology, a fax machine I'm sure would send them in in the systems, they'd probably go into straight up seizures.

16:38 Yeah. And, you know, maybe maybe it's just a the opposite to like the, the modern industry has to bend to the new people, you know, like there's that and and maybe we're old school at this point, you know, maybe, maybe we're old school for wanting to have a methodical approach and deeper understanding and wade into the waters out so slowly gaining context.

17:03 Oh my God.

17:06 Right. So, there is this thing though. Definitely. There's a kinesthetic part of learning kinesthetic part of natural, natural, biological kind of development in is like the science of movement kind of thing. Yeah. Right. Right. Okay. And so, I remember definitely when I was a kid, you know, get your ass outside, you know, kind of. Right. And, it was almost entirely in a log and kinesthetic.

17:35 And it was like I was always actively doing something, playing a game that involved some kind of motor skill or something. You know, most of the time when stuff you made up. Right? Yeah. Yeah, totally. Everything from riding your bike and going swimming, jumping off the dock, trying to learn how to do a flip, you know, all that.

17:50 Yeah. And to, having rock fights in the tree for, you know, etc.. Yeah. And, like, I remember we would go out to the creek and it would be this, you know, mile long trek through the woods, and then we would have flipping rocks looking for crayfish. Yeah. And then when we got there and got started, we started cooking crayfish.

18:10 We built a little fire, you know, and. Right. So the learning levels that are involved there. Right. Yeah. It's like I probably wouldn't let my kids do that to, you know. Well, I don't think my parents would have let me do it if they knew I was doing it right. And so but there's this, there's this, like, deep physiological connection to life and, you know, your body being involved with the broader aspect of your learning and your development.

18:36 That, that I definitely see a reduction in the children of today. Good point. And you know, I would, I'm assuming, you know, making an intuitive kind of leap here that that's in the aggregate bad. Right. And, and and and not the, not the right answer. But you know, I'm still not sure. I'm not certain of it, but I don't think anybody is.

18:55 Like I said, there's insufficient data. This is all new stuff. There's not really you know, the numbers aren't really in on, you know, performance. Yeah. You know, over a long period of time over a lifelong because you just don't have that timeline. But anyway, this, this kind of a really, really kind of digital NZD producing phenomenon that happens.

19:20 You'll find, you'll, you'll notice that a lot of people that are on digital media all the time, like, like tremendous amounts of screen time, almost, almost invariably like lockstep will complain about high levels of anxiety. Right. And so that those high levels, anxiety will interfere with kinesthetic processes. So like the part of your brain that controls motor skills, your home and all that will be, actually affected in, in, in so psychological stress directly impacts your motor skills.

19:50 Correct. And so like top performing athletes like, we talked about that famous gymnast and I can't remember some of them. Biles. Yes. Getting the quote unquote twisties. Yeah, right. Is this psychological when she's in the middle of doing a flip, her brain just says, right. Yeah. In short circuit short circuits for that just brief moment and it throws her out of out of her sync.

20:13 And you mentioned there's something else, another term used in baseball or golf. And what was that? Yes, yes. That's so crazy. They said the. Yes and the twisties. Yeah. So this, you know, high performing golfer is trying to make that putt. And at the last minute they're handshakes just a little bit. And that one degree angle over 50 yards.

20:32 You know that trying to make a 30 yard punt or whatever throws it off by six feet. Right. But Tiger Woods yesterday what he was in under psychological stress was just fine. Yeah. And so there's I think then you try to all of a sudden stick a young child who is like, you know, completely on psychoactive drugs and, you know, it's just had all this digital media sitting on the soccer field and expect them to have like, this really super fine motor control.

20:56 And yeah, learned this new kinesthetic physiological ability. And you know I don't think so. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be this big interference. And for me it ties back to we. And I think we discussed this on another podcast. There's a movement to make playgrounds riskier. Yeah I heard about that. Yeah yeah yeah, yeah. And so bring back the monkey bars.

21:14 Yeah. Bring back the monkey bars. Bring back the, you know, the pellets that are stacked up that kids run up and down, bring back, bring back all these things that have this element of danger and risk because it goes back to doing the things we did when we were kids. We learned through that experience of a little bit of pain, a little bit of feedback and danger in danger, very you kind of forced to pay a little more attention than there's like a legit risk, right?

21:40 Right, right. But if it's all safe and you're in this the equivalent of this little bubble, you know, you don't gain as much. I can see that. Yeah. For sure. I mean, you bring back a memory for me, man. I had some dangerous monkey bars. Like, we had this almost like a half globe thing that was just this interconnected.

21:59 Yeah, yeah, the jumbo jam. What we called it. Yeah, that's. There you go. Don't know if that's the right term. There's like this dome, right? Yes. And, you know, maybe, maybe my mind's eye, I'm seeing it as bigger than it was because I saw it running through the lens of the wall, child. Right. But I remember, like, the older kids would go to the top and not only would they go to the top, they jump off the top like, you know, laying on that hard packed dirt.

22:22 Yeah, my my last memory of being on the jungle gym was we were all hanging out in the jungle gym, and we were talking about movies that we had seen that we shouldn't see. Yeah. And the older kids would, like, kind of go to the top of it and jump off it and stuff. Right. And then it's kind of like a hierarchy, you know, it's like, yeah, the the top is reserved for the kids.

22:42 Yeah. Right, right. And so this is, this is an offshoot from we're talking about. But it's funny story. It's worth saying, my father was playing adult softball, and so we the, the, the, softball field was on the same field as our playground. My school. Gotcha. You know, shared rec field. Yeah. So, like the adult rec leagues that played soccer and played softball and other sports would use the same field that we had during recess.

23:07 And so it was kind of cool because I was able to go on the swings and do all the stuff on the playground, you know, while the adults were playing. Sure. Yeah, yeah. And, I remember facing that jungle gym by myself, and I was like, I'm gonna jump from the top, like, get up the nerves to climb to the top and jump to the top like the big kids.

23:27 And there's no social hierarchy stopping you. That's one thing. And there was no. So I could have control. Yeah. And so anyway. Yeah, traverse the thing and climb to the top of the jungle gym and get perched on the top ring. And I'm like, here I go, and I jump. And when I landed, it sent shockwaves. But my it hurt my feet so bad.

23:45 I was limping for like days because it just I hits. I didn't hit right, I didn't I didn't like, it didn't bend your knees and yeah, yeah, I did it all wrong. Yeah, yeah. And, so I wasn't, like, hurt per say, but I had stressed for sure. My, you know, ankle joints. Oh, yeah. Dude. So, like, I paid the price with no one around you, but, you know, to this day, you remember that shock to the system, and, you know, and you, you inadvertently learn from it as to how to fall better.

24:18 Yeah. I was telling the story about the danger thing that you. Yeah. Right. So, like, these things are dangerous. Like, you could just fall off them and hit another bar. Totally. And, there you go. It's in my memory to this day. So clearly, it was a learning moment. It was a learning. Yeah. So, I don't know, I'm torn.

24:35 Right? Because, like, I make this, I have this dangerous playground. And I said, I'm like, I could get hurt. Like I told her, but at the same time, I understand. I appreciate the idea. Yeah. And the thing is, there's generations of kids who are out on playgrounds similar to ours, and most of them were like over 99% of them were just fine, you know?

24:58 Good point. And, you know, sure, there's the outlier who's going to hurt themselves irreparably. But, that kind of is part of life, I think. And yes, we want to protect our progeny. We want to protect our kids from each and every the slings and arrows of life. We want to protect them from the emotional, the physical trauma, all of it.

25:17 But there's an element where they have to experience it to understand it. They have to confer. They head on and take it on, internalize it and deal with it. Exactly. So I think like kind of like the grand summary, if I were to summarize our whole conversation, I think I would say something along the lines of like, if I were to make a recommendation, I might say something along the lines of be aware for your young children that there's, over excessive use of digital media, perhaps.

25:46 Yeah, might, might somehow or in some way legitimately impede their physiological development. There we go. Might want to keep that in mind. And like the research isn't in yet. So since it's an unknown, probably safe to somewhat on the side of caution, right? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and you know, another element, it seems like this kind of stuff might be making kids be more prone to being nurse nearsighted.

26:10 So that's another thing to guard against. Put your kids outside for a few hours a day, you know, so literally creating gaps in their physiological development and physical development overall. Yeah, including like visual acuity and every other kinds of motor skills. You know, visual acuity is definitely going to come into play with schoolwork with, you know, reaction and identification.

26:33 And and I would have to say in conclusion to is that there's the kids that weren't the zombies are there we go. The three of the three kids that I had on my team were not zombies. Definitely had more fun. That's awesome. That's a good note, Daniel. There you go.