0:00 Is beyond a weakness of me. It's like, I know, like Danielle used to take me out. Yeah. And, you know, we walk you not far, maybe three miles out. Right? Yeah. And see, like. Okay. Find your own home.

0:18 Like, turned you dead. Reckoning. Wait. And, you know, usually I'd be good to go, but it's like we'd go back in different ways, and we came.

0:35 So funny there. Yep. And then, you know, she just she couldn't she couldn't understand it. And she's like, I don't understand how you can't figure it out. I was like, I don't know. I was like, I'm missing whatever neuronal connections with support that skill. So GPS has been like, saving grace. Oh, God. Yeah. When we have fully autonomous, automated, automated car driving, it's.

1:05 Oh, it's going to be amazing. Then you're just set. Oh, yeah. I'm. I'm really waiting for it. I don't care how much it cost. Yeah. You'll you'll finally you'll probably be able to, like, mostly truly mask your, your your ineptitude on directions. I'm not even worried about masking my Neptune. I'm worried about. I just want relief from anxiety and stress of trying to figure it out.

1:26 Oh, I mean, to some extent, that's true for everybody, right? Yeah. So I'm a directional like wizard, you know? Yeah. Like, so was my dad. I just I've always had a knack for it. My little my youngest brother. Seriously, I'm not even shitting you at, like, 8 or 9 years old, he was telling my stepmother the best way to get was.

1:48 Yeah, it's like, Soon I were coming back from the Blue Ridge one time, and I was like, you're going the wrong way. Yeah. She's like, how do you know? I was like, I just tell because you know where the sun is, right? Right. She's like, you're you're full. You know, she she totally doubted me. I was like, there's no way you're going east right now.

2:08 It's like I'm telling you, you're going west. It's one of those situations where there's no sign. But longest time. Like for miles upon miles.

2:20 Just couldn't believe that I knew what we were going the wrong way. Because. Because of the sun. Which, I mean, it makes sense. You know, you you know which direction you're supposed to head. You know which direction the sky is in the in the in the sky. So I was like, if if you say North is up in, you know, geospatial relationship of the cosmos or you know, our how we are oriented to the sun, then the sun rises in the east and sets in the west due to a counterclockwise rotation.

2:50 You know, work it out from there. Yeah. You're totally going west. Yeah. No I'm not. Yeah. Okay. We'll see. And she was. Yeah. Then you know she was a convinced we actually bet on it. Oh shit. And we never do that. And then she reneged. She was mad.

3:12 We got a tour of the Blue Ridge. Yeah. It always works out, but. Yeah. So when we're on the plane to universal, I took all these notes. Yeah, yeah. And, I did it here. It notes in one note, right? And, problem is, is that. Oh, shit. While walking, it's just impossible to. Yeah. If you were standing still, you could pass it out.

3:39 Yeah. If if we weren't really in the studio. No, we can't do that joke anymore. Oh, it is tired and played out. I mean, that's like most of everything we say.

3:52 Anyway, so there's some gems in here. But I wanted to tell you about something that happened just the other day. That was hilarious. Sure. We had had our, our our fridge in the basement conk out on us. Oh, fuck. And, I guess, I don't know, I haven't taken it apart yet or anything, but, you know.

4:12 Really? What's that smell? Yeah, basically, we just had food right in the smell of gas around you. Yeah, we didn't know what it was. Yeah. So finally went downstairs to get something like, oh, this thing's sure enough. Fridge was dead. Oh, shit. But anyway, who's the ton of food, I guess? Yeah, not too bad. Wasn't it wasn't like full, full year.

4:36 So it was. Insurance company claim? Yeah, right. Ironically, I don't know if you remember when we first moved in that house that I do remember in the basement. I remember exactly what the gentleman looked like who left it. I remember you explaining to me just a couple of years ago the full story. And I mean, dear Lord, that I've never smelled anything like that before in my life.

4:59 Yeah. Chest freezer full or not? Chest freezer, but a, upright fridge freezer combo with the freezer on top. Administration. Yep. Completely full rotten meat. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's horrid. And I mean, if, you know, trying to get revenge on your old landlord. Yeah, it never works out, right? Yeah. Come on. Property crimes always in the fucking the little guy.

5:22 They do. They do. I mean, you know, all that stuff we're doing in 2008 where it's like, let me go ahead and pour concrete down my, toilet. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right, right. And it's like, that just gives some plumber a really bad day. Yeah. And on top of that, it's just. It's stupid. You got evicted because you're an idiot.

5:43 Most likely. Most likely. And you know it is. No one's okay. Sure. Maybe it's somebody else's fault, but yours. But you're sure as hell not getting back at the bank by pouring some concrete down your plumbing. Oh, and you know, surely if any financial, financial, you know, accountability is going to be it's going to be on you anyway.

6:08 Yeah. You know, and the converse is true. Like my, I worked with this older gentleman. He was in the 80s and Lowe's. Right. He was a one of the famed Lowe's 401 K millionaires. Right. And, back in the day. Right. And he he was working basically until the day he died, because he didn't he loved working.

6:34 And so he's talking to me and he's like, yeah, I have my house that I paid off 60 years ago. He goes, damn, the bank is so good to me. I'm gonna will it to them in my will. And I spent three weeks every day during my break trying to convince him that that was not a great idea.

6:55 You need to leave it to anyone else. Right. You're not trying to get him to leave it to you. Just anyone but the thing. Right? Yeah. And I was like, don't. If I said this is not something I'm trying to do for me. You have kids. Leave it to one of them. For real? For real. Yeah. But he died.

7:13 And guess where his house went? The fake. Yep. Good lord. They've been so good to me. Wow. Yeah. Wow. So that gave me an idea. Teaches the world about fractional reserve lending. So knowing that mistake again. I mean, that's a beautiful idea. What I thought of was. Okay, why does he love the bank so much? Because he can go to the bank and talk to a teller for 30 minutes.

7:34 Probably. Probably. Yeah. So why don't we institute that same idea, like, instead of fast checkout lanes? Let's give a slow checkout lane where old people could go talk to somebody. Wow. Great idea. Let's build relationships with this aging generation that the boomers are soon to be. And let's, to assuage them from their inheritance or just to give them someone to talk to.

8:02 To give them something to talk to, to better society, to, you know, maybe, and talk them into giving their inheritance a charity. Not not not the bank or charity. Archer. Oh, okay. Okay. I mean, if we're gonna do it right. Yeah. You know, that could be as long as it's not the primary objective, then we're morally. You know, that's not.

8:22 Well, they just 20,000 people just happen to put us in their will. Yeah, because that's how that works. You're morally fine as long as it's not your primary. Yeah, yeah. If it's a secondary or tertiary, it's just it's a, it's a also ran it's a, it's an adjunct thing. Overarching statement allow the aging generations the use of technology to avoid loneliness while they enjoy their consumerism under arching.

8:51 And we take their narratives. Look, we're we're Robin Hood it. Okay. There you go. There you go. We're just, you know, someone's gonna do it like the bank. So we might as well be the one. We might as well kindly remove it and redistribute it. Oh, my gosh, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. 100% kid like that. The the logic of a deranged statutory rapist.

9:16 You know, it's like a I'll be. I'll be her first. No. God. Because I'll. I'll treat her right. Oh, God. It's better than somebody else, you know, love that mentality. Or like, in business or some other company is going to do it if we don't. Right. Which is kind of like what I want to talk about today. Like the race to the bottom.

9:37 Oh yeah, there we go. And of that, we'll, we'll, we'll start with the continuation of the rotten food and the fridge. Yep. Which was on. And I were thrown in a big old trash bag, the rotten stuff. And he's like, kind of holding his nose stinks and I'm spraying the fridge out with bleach, water and yada, yada. Sure.

9:57 And we stumble upon a conversation about the Great Filter, which to to give you, to, to, if you recall. I mean, are you familiar with the Great Filter, the idea? I do not think so. So the Great Filter is like, you know, why aren't we hearing anything from some other intelligent species out there, some other intelligent life in the universe?

10:20 We've been listening for over 50 years now. 70 years, something like that. Right. And, you know, and we've been listening across a fairly broad spectrum, the broadest that we are aware of. Yeah. If you take away speed and you make a sphere from our from Earth right outward, we now should have heard something you'd expect. Yeah, unless there's some other spectrum there using it.

10:43 We just don't understand. Sure. Yeah. And so, granted, the size of the the size of the size of our galaxy and the size of the universe as far as we know, like the, the, radius from which we're we're listening is nothing still but. Right. But still. Yeah. Mathematically. You think, you know, kind of like Drake's Equation. What's the idea of, you know, you know, there and the number of the number of planets that we now know have to be the minimum.

11:14 Right. You know, we're thinking like, maybe we should have heard something. So something periodic, something, you know, that has clear information, content. Yeah. Even if it's like a strange twinkling from a from a full from a mostly constructed Dyson sphere or something. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you know, something like that or something. Anyway, on the grain filter is this idea that, you know, maybe once a civilization hits a certain threshold, is it self-destructs.

11:46 So maybe the kind of natural evolution of intelligent species is self-destruction. So almost to put a metaphor out there, it's almost like a bacterial colony growing on, say, a nutrient medium like agar that has a ring of penicillin around it. Yeah. Certainly. Man to the ring. Yeah. Just the or the fact that it's in a dish. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

12:10 And it just dies on its own excrement. There we go. And that's the whole, you know, one minute till midnight idea. Right. You know, the bacteria that doubles every 20 minutes or, you know, whatever the timeline, you put it out. When, when they, when they look around and they say oh the jar is still, you know, 90, 98.5% empty, we have nothing to worry about.

12:37 Right. 20 minutes later you know. Oh we're at 80%. We still have 20%. Yeah. We're only at 20%. Look at all the space. We have nothing to worry about 20 minutes later. Yeah. Doesn't take long to do the math you're ready to do kind of thing. Yeah. So the idea behind the Great Filter is that perhaps there's these as these as intelligent societies and civilizations continue to develop.

13:06 They face a series of challenges, all of which are extinction level events self-induced. Get that. Yeah. Yeah I do. It's you know, in essence there's just this place into a place in time, this convergence of technology and society and culture that kills them all off. And we have kind of like a sense of it already. We have the Doomsday Clock idea.

13:33 Oh, yeah. Right. So we really start to have kind of this, seal for the idea. Yeah. You know, we could probably close to, if not already to kill ourselves. Oh, yeah. You know, we could easily annihilate ourselves. And so what's on the horizon with next generation weapons? Yeah. No molest. Extreme skate. Wow. Holy crap. I wasn't clear, less the nature here.

14:05 Now, even though my existence probably is quite molesting nature. Well, you know, I mean, but it's not consciously. Yeah. Which could be another great filter, right? It could be another filter. Is that, you know what we do? The environment could run away. Climate change. Well, I mean, that's the most likely one. Is it is it not. I don't know.

14:25 I mean, do you think. Do you think all that war and destruction from that is the most likely. Or do you think it's pollute our home in dying or in an extra on it? I think that's I, I, I, I think that was more likely we managed to avoid total destruction so far. Well, there's no doubt about it that, you know, ecosystem collapses differently a danger.

14:48 Right? Right. That's for sure. So I can think of a bunch of different ways, you know, like, Yeah. Runaway greenhouse effect. That'd be one for sure. Yeah. Maybe something like, we're probably not apart from that, genetically modified engineer, microorganism that. Yeah. You know, get out. And it's just ridiculous. The concept of disease X not even a genetically modified one, but one that is just hanging out gets the right mutation.

15:18 Grasses the, you know, oh, the zoo trope, the zero tropic barrier or whatever. And, you know, hey, all of a sudden, most of us are dead. Yeah, and that could be enough to, like, fully collapse the species, you know? You know, and then, so that's a possibility. I mean, of course, you have, like, the shooting gallery from outer space.

15:39 Oh, yeah. Asteroid or anything? Oh, yeah. You know that. We can't we can't intervene. No way. You know, you know, there's a good chance we won't even necessarily be able to detect it and try to end this. Yeah. To nothing we can do. Our entire human history of weaponizing technology is probably a big one. True, true. In all of its different forms.

16:00 Yeah, I guess I'm saying I feel like I feel like it's going to be something we I don't know, I at least have enough faith in humanity to think. To think that we'll probably not destroy ourselves. Let's directly with a bomb. But maybe I'm wrong. Yeah. So now, though, like, we have this new emerging thing, you know, our AI discussion that's ongoing is that with a gun, shoot a gun and the bullet goes where you shot it, right?

16:31 Yep, yep. And that's pretty much it. You point the gun, pull the trigger, and then after a very short amount of time, the bullet arrives at a circuit and, very predictable. And so if my enemy has a good point at me and I one pointed at him. Really assured destruction, as they say. Yeah. And when let's say that they have a device that when I pull the trigger there's pulls and vice versa, which we do.

16:59 Right. So like a giant Mexican send off. Matt, I think it's called. Yep. That's what I said. Mutually, sir. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, in that case, we still have a predictable outcome, right? A bullet flies back and forth. Yep. Well, with these new weapons, there's a chance that, like, you shoot the bullet and the bullet on its way, you know, has already made 5000 decisions beyond our comprehension.

17:25 Right. And I can't cite the article, but, putting ChatGPT and these other popular Lems testing them in, in a study. As to aggression in war simulation. Yeah. ChatGPT escalated the quickest, but, Sure. Why not? Right. But, you know, other ones, like Claude's in our Claude from anthropic and and things like that. They had a lower aggression threshold, but all of them usually like, over 50% of the time, killed all of humanity.

18:04 Yeah. So the the thieves might have ready to be lit, right, for this great filter. What? Which could be temper that. I just want to say real quick. Air Canada got fucked because. Yeah, they say basically AI lied. Yeah, it's AI lied. It made some shit up like we've been talking about. Yeah. And, you know, it's not like it didn't have the documents in front of it with the actual information, right?

18:31 But it can't not make things up based on the paradigm of how it's designed. Right? Exactly. It is. It is ultimately the ultimate people pleaser. Yeah, that's how it finishes its job. There you go. And so yeah, it made shit up. And now they're getting sued. They tried to claim the AI was a separate entity. I love it.

18:51 Oh, yeah. Much of that shit. You're going to see the future too. It's like you can't blame me. It's the AI. I don't I don't even know what it's thinking. And you don't. That's a true. Sounds like the right answer. Boy, that's like the ultimate in capitalism, right? Like the ability to rake in whatever profits this thing could.

19:10 Could manage to reap. Yep. And then when it goes rogue or yourself, like it completely. I don't like the Trump argument. I don't even know that person. 50 photos of with said person, you know. Right. Yeah. It's like they were at Mar-A-Lago donating money to you. There's 50 photos with you. Yeah. Right, right. Here's the three interviews of you saying what a terrific person this person is.

19:35 And I'm. And on and on. Right. Yeah. Or hardly knew that person. Okay. Okay. Do you know. Do you know anybody? Right. Not when they've done something that, you know could incriminate me or. Right. Oh, right. But, so that's going to be the argument of future, right? Like, we don't we don't even have the technology to know what it's probably going to be legally boilerplate legalese that's written to indemnify yourself against the actions of your AI in the air.

20:02 Hope you write it. Yeah, dude, we should start on that today.

20:11 See why a D. Yeah, exactly. Just as layers of identity. Yep. Fully indemnified in, you know, 200 out of 293 countries. Jesus Christ, the president clicked the box that said accept.

20:37 The commander in chief should have read the read that end user license agreement. Oh, man. Eula. Hell. So, you know, in that vein, right. So here we're back to the Great Filter idea in this AI. So we have like this craziness right. So in warfare, the AI that does the preemptive strike is the one that wins. Right? Right.

20:57 Right. The AI that, can take the initiative autonomously. Right. Right. Is the one that wins. So we have this new. Like I said, the bullet changes its form on in flight, right? Yeah. It's adapting. So? So the bullet, instead of hitting the enemy soldier in the field, transforms itself. It takes the, depleted uranium, you know, shell casing that it's in and diverts itself into the water supply of the enemy and kills the whole entire civilian population with radiation.

21:32 Oh, nobody saw that coming, right? You know, so the bullet basically changes itself in flight. You know, to any weapon that's even beyond our imagination on, you know, vectors of destruction. Right. You know. Right. And the, you know, warring element or the faction or the government or whatever, whatever, however you want to parse people up into groups that says yes to that first, now has the technical tactical superiority.

22:06 So this is same same with business. It's the same with everything else. There's this race to the bottom that is just insane if you think about it, with this emerging AI. Yep. Right. So is this really the paradigm? Well, that is that that's that's right for humanity. Think it's our thinking. This race to the bottom phrase comes into play with everything we've done in the last few decades, if not 100 years.

22:36 It's all about picking a picking an attribute or picking a property and saying, I want to reduce that as low as possible. And, you know, you're racing to reduce it. And it's like, yeah, against a peer, against a, adversary, real or imagined. Yeah. You know, like you could be speculating as capabilities of your opponent and then be willing to make a deal with the devil and race to the bottom.

23:06 But I guess my whole point is where we keep so few variables in our minds. Ultimately, our strategies are.

23:15 Very ham fisted. Our strategy is a very, you know, single minded and even primarily driven, primarily driven. Absolutely. Whether we realize it or not. Yeah. And so, boy, we have this whole thing. This is this recursive, exponentially growing problem solution with technology. Right. So technology gives us the solution to that big problem we had. And then but now we're faced with two more.

23:45 And yeah it's plugging one hole in the dam for two more to pop out. Yep. You got your finger in the dike. But right. What can you do. You know that metaphor? Yep. And, you know, there's only so much chewing gum there. And so, it seems like we're, really without vision, have this collective race to the bottom.

24:06 And I think a really key in this is like that whole idea of real or imagined. So if we are, our thinking is siloed off and our objectives are militaristic, right, then, I mean, think of all the incentives that are there or lack of incentives that are there. Right. With that huge bird. Yeah. Yeah. It's like just sitting there like I don't care.

24:32 It's like, come at me broke. Yeah. It's like, you see this, like, ring around me right now? Come in at ring. I will folk you works yet? Oh, it's like the like the goat on the chain. And the kids run through the the the dirt patch where the grass is all been eaten because it's on a, it's on a radio.

24:54 It's like, got a perfect circle of no grass. Yep. That is eaten. Yep. And the kids run through that circle, and the goat will will chase them and buck them. You know, I don't know if you played that game when you're a kid, but. Oh, yeah, I did. It was so much funnier, too, when Adam Sandler came out with a the This Little Goat skit on what the hell happened to me?

25:17 You gotta look that one up. Oh. You do? It's like at one point. So this goat could talk, and it was talking to the kids. It was changed to the change of this truck. And the idea is, occasionally the kids will let him go and take him places, but they were constantly just making fun of the goat, you know, and fucking with him.

25:39 And, there was this one kid who would always go in his circle and fuck with him. He was gear up. He was like a goat was talking shit about guitar, puto. And also the goat had some pictures where they had taken him to the, like, amusement park and shit. So the old man that owned him, he would spend his days getting drunk and they come out and beat the goat and boy.

26:03 Well, they he comes out for his daily to beat the goat and he finds the, the goat was looking at those pictures and he's like, look, the voters ease. And he's like, I don't know man. They fucking superimposed me, man. He's like, I'm I wasn't there. And this shit was so funny. Just you wouldn't think that somebody could make that funny, but he did.

26:27 I think I'm gonna have to see that for myself. I well, it's all audio. I see. Oh, okay. Okay. But. Okay. Yeah. So my mind will fill in whatever gaps. Yeah. Yeah. But I do remember, actually, this goat that would buck you and the kids would run through the little ring. I was one of them. And, you know, God, that was entertainment for a couple of hours.

26:49 Oh, yeah. I mean, the better as the goat was having the time of its life, too, right? Goat was psyched to be bucking those kids, man. Oh, yeah. And, I mean, a lot of times, you know, we just catch the edge of here or something. You never really. Yeah. Got two fucked up, and it wasn't, like, really angry.

27:04 It was just playing the game, too. Yeah. Yeah, it was like the goat kind of knew what was happening. It was weird. Yeah, yeah. It was like, hey, let's play. And, you know, you you could tell when it eventually got pissed enough because the way it's eyes would change. Yeah. It's a body language. Yep. That's when you don't run straight through the ring anymore.

27:22 Yep. Because it's like, hey, we've been doing this for an hour. This thing's fucking mad. Yeah. It is. It is pissed enough to wear it. Like, if it could get you down to the ground, you're in big trouble. You're actually in trouble. But anyways, so this, you know, race to the bottom thing, right? Is, you know, a real concern and nobody's and and I don't think there's any international organization assembled to, to talk about these issues.

27:50 I mean, surely not. But, you know, this is the kind of thing we talk about our thinking being siloed, our our brains only being able to hold a few variables. You know, not being able to have a wide enough field of view. Right. Yeah. And we've always been able to rely on collective. Right. The group, the larger group to, you know, kind of put the guardrails in the blind spot.

28:13 Yeah. What's the guardrails in? Yeah. So if we, you know, had a short sighted, short sighted in some way, you know, we could rely on. But the, you know, to all of that to was slower. The collective could slowly assimilate the knowledge and grow to fill the gap. Right. And even back in the Cold War era where we had these huge nukes pointed at each other, which I'm sure we still do, but.

28:36 Right. There was a, you know, a hotline on the president's desk. You have the big red bone, you know, where you can literally phone the Russians. Yeah. And say, don't shoot. That was just a test, right? Or hey, something's gone awry. Right. There's. There's a missile coming in, and it will not explode. Do not fire back or whatever.

28:57 Right. Well, where's the hotline for the next generation of weapons? Right. And, you know, on top of that. How do you keep track of the next generation of weapon without without showing your hand to your enemy? Right. Yeah. So there has to be, like, for our own frickin sanity and safety. I mean, there there has to be something in something very soon, if not already too late.

29:22 Well, okay. We invented things like radar. We invented things we invented. You know, a a various radiation detection measures and lots of other things. I mean, maybe maybe these countermeasures are already in flight. No they're not. Yeah. They're not. Because the the because the the thinking to at that this next level complexity requires hyper intelligence. It requires the superintelligence.

29:56 And we to be truthful we don't our the current level of publicly available AI can assist with this somewhat, but can't take us where we probably need to be. No way. And then, because the the weapon systems that are, like I said, the race to the bottom have to have the autonomy to make the decisions. Yeah. To be the superior weapon.

30:22 Yeah. Right. And then so because the autonomy of course, it's the very crux of it, it is the essence of it being the super weapon. There you go. And so then it's it's beyond comprehension. And then who knows what form it takes inevitably, you know. Well, it's allowed to, you know, furl its wings for sure, unfurl its wings, I mean, unfurl.

30:46 And the race to the bottom includes dialing back all the controls that were imagined at the beginning. So if you didn't kind of notice what's happening is that I don't know if you remember, like. But I'm sure you do. They used to have this thing, like, you know, no, AI is a lot on the internet. Well, they used to have these, like, implied, kind of, almost academic collegiate, sort of.

31:12 So, like, we will keep this thing isolated. It's in its own box. Yeah. Scientists were kind of creating like these. These engineers were creating their own kind of code of conduct that they're sharing. And that just is all gone. Like, there's there's money to be made in the first AI that's allowed to be on the internet. And I would argue the reason all that's gone is because the people who are in the position to form the ethics, the people who are creating the technologies, they're thinking along those lines has been heavily eroded by marketing campaigns and companies like meta and others that turn us into products where we don't think so heavily about it.

31:54 It's just the way of the world. There you go. And back to that same default idea that if I don't do it, somebody else is going to do it. Yeah. True. You know, well, I've always had this weird idea towards that. Like, no matter what it is. Well, if you have to break the law if you will, or do something against humanity to be the business that comes out on head, maybe you shouldn't be in the business.

32:19 I agree, and I think that's an element of what we keep talking about business wise. Hey, if you have to compromise whenever it comes to people there, pay their safety. You shouldn't be in business. Well, this is this is a corollary to that. Right. 100%. Absolutely. And so the the basically the, the genie is out of the bottle, I think at this point.

32:45 And so this very well could be a great filter. So as I was unpacking the rotten food from the fridge. Yeah. You know, my 12 year old son and I started talking about the Great Filter and there's two prongs to this. One is I was amazed that he was actually interested. Well yeah. His his assessment of the conversation was, well that's depressing.

33:10 And I was like, yeah, damn right it is. You know, soup. And then, I guess at 12, if somebody presented that to me, I would, I would be trying to figure out where's the hole in the thinking, where's the positive outlet? Where's the way we can fix it? Yeah. Right. Right. And so, yeah, it should not be, emotionally injured by it.

33:31 You know, there's the intellectual off ramp to. Yeah. You know, protect yourself from. Exactly. That's really what it is. The intellectual off ramp to protect yourself from the weight and gravity of the idea you've just been introduced to. Right? That is like, pretty damn sound reasoning behind it. It's like, you know, like, everything we talk about so far, we've had this Doomsday clock.

33:50 We've had these weapons that are cataclysmic, pointing at each other now for for decades. Yep. Generations, generation. Generations. And now we have an unprecedented amount of money pouring into the genie out of the bottle. AI. Yeah, that can be used in so many. Like there's nothing that can't be used in all or endless. It is. It really is a sea change even greater than the general purpose computer.

34:20 I mean, the general purpose computer was our first taste of like, what a, you know, almost Swiss Army knife tool is. Yeah, like completely the ultimate Swiss Army knife. And now AI is just whole nother thing, right? It's like a Swiss army knife of Swiss army knife. Really? Really. It's a, you know, and it's. And like you said, the transformative power of it, you know, and and how it can adapt and change you.

34:49 It can't be Boston or quantified. And there's this, there's this kind of, well, I'll tell you the two pronged thing with the kid, you know, that, that made sense. So after the, you know, that's depressing. You know, I did walk it back a little bit. I was like, well, there's, you know, really smart people working on this issue, right?

35:07 It's like, hey, you know, this isn't art. This isn't our inevitable doom. And I can I can tell in his demeanor and in my, the way the words came out of my mouth that that, that wasn't really a very satisfactory. That wasn't enough. Wasn't enough. And it's not enough for me either. Right? Yeah. But the the second prong of this was I was thinking, reflecting afterwards and I was like, maybe, I don't know, maybe I shouldn't be doing this kid to this philosophy trappings that I've had.

35:39 Right, right. Like kind of this if you can't do anything about it, why? For it? Yeah. Yeah, because he can't do anything about it. Why stress it? Right? Yeah. Kind of idea. And ultimately, there's also a point here that these are conclusions and things that we've grown up with. You know, these are things that are probably born out of Cold War, thinking out of, you know, all the practices inside that we've experienced.

36:11 Hey, you know, there's always a new and unrealistic hope on the horizon from the new generation. Newest generation had to embrace that. Yeah. So from what I think I heard recently in the news, is that Blackrock has kind of moved away from the climate change initiatives. Oh yeah. And so another example of this race to the bottom right.

36:36 If my company is not going to do as well as this company over here because I care about the environment. Right. And that company doesn't, well, that company is going to put me out of business because they're more profitable, right? So therefore, I have to not care about the environment to companies that pursue a low regulation environment with our current thinking are going to be more profitable.

36:56 There you go. And so then, you know, again, another race to the bottom and the the kind of non collective action for climate change that we're seeing right. Administration just got rid of some of the or lessened the requirements that are supposed to hit by 2030 for field efficiency and a number of other metrics that would really help fight climate change.

37:22 I mean, all the data is already clear is that it's past the point of no return. Right. So unless we have some kind of Hail Mary technology, we're in big trouble. Yeah. I mean, especially as China and India emerge and start living like we do, because they're going through the same phases as output of to compressed nature. You're going through the heavy pollution industrial revolution.

37:46 They're going through the, you know, abuse of their people as well as the environment they're going through, you know. Right. All these things. That's right. And if you're a parent and you have this option between preserving the environment or having your children live a good life better than you, you're going to want this secondary up.

38:07 Yeah. Do you, as a parent, give a fuck of the carbon footprint of your child? No. If your child is is going to have what, perceived as a better life than than you ever had or ever dreamed of, right? For generations. Right? Right. Hell, no. That would be the last thing on your mind. And so now multiply that by 2 billion parents.

38:34 And you have a, you know, not not directly, but you have a climate disaster as a result. Yeah. Because like, every single, you know, Chinese person and every single Indian person can't eat meat. Three friends a day. Great. Morning, Mike. And, because the environment, that alone would just push the environment over the tipping it. It's done.

39:01 That alone would would kill it. Rachel. Like.

39:07 There we have this, like indirect filter. Right? Another great filter just in status quo. So like, if everyone lived, like the typical American or, you know, Englishman or whatever, right? If the whole world had the carbon footprint of, of an average American. Right? So we have already been dead. Yeah. We're dead overnight. Yeah. So that's really, really hard to put that together in your mind.

39:31 You know, this idea that if a person just lives, if it's every person on the planet were to live the life style, let's say that I live, we would be dead, right? Holy crap, do I do? I instantly have this this huge moral obligation. And, you know, many would say, yes. You know, that's why some vegans do what they do.

39:53 That's why some people bike to work. That's why I Lovell blah. But the the biggest losers are, are not the individuals but the individuals. If they care, they should try. I agree. But you know, the biggest believers I mean how do we change them? They are the BlackRock's, the companies that own these sprawling assets. I have no idea.

40:21 It has to come from within. And it doesn't in history. Doesn't serving as a guy doesn't show that's that's not where your moral, your cultural shifts come from. I can think of and this is I feel like we have to have almost somebody who's, who's a master retarded amount of resources. And there's like a benevolent dictator is like a benevolent dictator.

40:45 Yes. Good morning. Good morning. Yeah. You need. You need the right. The benevolent dictator for life. And ultimately, power corrupts, you know, kind of motion. Right? You know, and so, I mean, it's never been successful. A dictator has never been able to remain the Neverland from more than a few years. Right? I don't know about that. Who? I think there's South Korea has an example.

41:10 Oh, okay. I think they have the I wish I knew the name off the top of my head, but they had a leader that unified the language and standardized all these things in the culture. Okay. Was basically set the trajectory. Well, I'm happy to be proven wrong that that that bullies me up. Yeah, I know that. Hey, there's at least one example of successful.

41:33 Yeah. So but at the same time, you know, one person's benevolent dictator might be another person's, you know, totalitarian, totalitarian oppressor. Yeah. Right. So, so many things are subjective points of view. Right. That whole, you know, to the lion, the gazelle is just dinner. Yeah. Right. Because the gazelle, the lions, the ultimate evil. Right. You know, and so the lion, it's like it just has to eat, right?

41:59 Yeah. You know, two completely different frame of references on the actions of the lion. Yeah. The morality surrounding the actions of a lion. You know, the lions. All I got to feed my cubs. Right? Yeah. And the Gazette was like, that is the ultimate evil. Yeah. It's like, you know, I, I would like to have children, you know, there's this, like, thing where the industrialist looks at the forest and sees it for the trees and sees the trees for how many board fleet of lumber.

42:31 Right are there? Whatever. Natural resource. Because these will easily be turned into a finished product or semi-finished. Good. They're looking at it with hungry eyes. Yeah. And then in the back of the napkin, figure out how much money can be made up. Right. And then the environmentalist might be looking at it, as you know, how can I maximize my efforts to conserve every tree?

42:53 Right. Or how can I turn this into, say, like, the mere woods? Right? How could I turn this into a place that all can enjoy, that is preserved, that gives those within it peace? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And then the, the person that works for the Forest services says, how do we manage this? To prevent firefighters fire, fire, forest fires and maximize the yield of the of the forest?

43:21 You know, in terms of beauty and it's addition to nature. Yeah. Yeah. How do we consider, you know, the these unknown things that each one of those conservationists or, or service workers kind of touches on mentally? But hey, we're pursuing an ecosystem. We're preserving, you know, future generations ability to coexist on this planet. That's right. And then the right and then the, you know, whatever the person that's that that's advocate for animals and, you know, says there's three endangered species that live in that stretch of wood, you know.

43:54 Right. Etcetera, etcetera. So you might have 50 valid competing points of view on what that force represents. Yep. And a bunch of different people and formed up into different groups, different camps, different banners, different sides. Yeah. Factions if you will. Yeah. Ready to go to war, you know. Right. Over. Just what that represents. Right. Then you have AI come in and says, well, I don't need oxygen, and it doesn't produce any silicon.

44:26 Right. So, you know, who cares? Yeah. Yeah. You know, the race to the bottom of the game. Oh, so this, you know, kind of war game scenario, I think is an important point. So, like, you know, if you had this kind of, way to simulate what the grand effects of this race to the bottom from a, brinksmanship standpoint, how that ends.

44:54 And 99 out of your 100 models end in fucking doom for humanity, you know, or some future that we do not want to live in. Right. Right. Maybe not doom, but decreased, viability. Yeah. Yeah. Basically just cripple humanity. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, another thing is that I think that would be really useful to kind of show like, as these things play out, these could be the outcomes.

45:25 I think that could be highly useful. Sure. But then, you know, you also have to be mindful of the limits of your model and the variables. You're able to encapsulate the data you have. Yeah. The less variables that you have, the more variables you let the simulation like work through, the better off, the more likely to be true.

45:46 Yeah. So almost don't restrict it, you know. Right. And then if it all ends in doom, you're onto something. Right. If it all ends in doom, then you ultimately realize you have to change the bedrock values. You have to change these. They're. These things are not constants or variables. How do you change those variables? Yeah. I think that I think that the US, I think our military has adopted a position to where we have this like human in the loop model to where a human on the loop or a human in the loop model.

46:22 Oh, I think that our military currently has that, kind of attitude when it comes to autonomous weapons. Well, sure. Yeah. Good morning. So from what I understand, the AI piloted jet fighter out competes human piloted, jet jet fighter pilots in a dogfight like 99 out of 100 times. I mean, that makes sense to me. Well, because it doesn't care about G-forces.

46:52 Yeah, it doesn't care about G-forces. It also isn't limited by the tactics and techniques that is acquired. And and like some of the other things that can make its own new novel tactics that we haven't thought of yet. Right. That's what I'm saying. It isn't. It doesn't have to be taught, and it isn't confined to a set of, you know, approved, approved things, parameters.

47:16 I mean, it's going to do what it's going to fucking do if you give freedom. Yeah. You told the AI, like, do whatever it takes to defeat these for your tomorrow at noon. You're going up against these four F-16 pilots here, their specifications, you know. Right. And you'll be flying the F 35 or whatever. Yeah. You know, these are the limits of your platform, these limits of their platform.

47:38 Yeah. And they're about to engage in all four of the FF16. Just follow the sky. And the pilots have to reject because it plays in a virus in the source code the night before. There we go. Like, you know, no one saw that one. There was over the air update to their F-16s. Yeah, right before they engage in the battle.

47:55 Right. It just falls out of the sky. And then the AI takes it one step further and just shoots the pilots out of the air. Yeah. Because now they're defeated. Yeah. I've won. And you know, they can't. They can't get back into the planes. Yep. There won't be for more coming at me. Yeah. And. Right. And those are the four best.

48:15 So, you know, I have to secure future wins as well. Oh, yeah. I mean, I mean, that's just my human thinking limitation. The cold, hard calculus of it. And the fact that the AI will carry it further is just, just, just it alternately looks at the problem in a way that isn't within the bounds of human thinking. Right.

48:37 We're not ready for that, dude. No, no. And, you know, I think we can. I think we have to temper that by. And we've talked about this before, but I think even right now we need introspection. Yeah, we need to be able to look at the inner machinations of the AI. So you have this like, war game scenario where the AI says, okay, there's a human in the loop scenario here to where the human makes the ultimate killshot decision.

49:03 Okay. And then the AI over multiple iterations realizes the human in the loop is what's holding me back, is why I can't I can't win. Right. The human in the loop is what's causing me not to win. And my enemy doesn't have a human in the loop. So I keep losing to my enemy. To the enemy. Right? I keep failing, if you will, because my team that I'm on for some reason, I have stupid humans that want to have human in the loop.

49:33 The enemy has already figured out that they're going to perform better if they don't have a human right. Let the AI make the decisions, right? Yeah. And so what does it do? It finds a way to bypass the human in the loop. You know.

49:49 In a in a creative way that we didn't even think of because ultimately this is and this is the problem. It's the dole functions. You give something. I mean, we thought that that. Yeah, we had that be insanely careful about what goal functions autonomous AI is given and its ability to change or mutate or interpret its goal functions.

50:12 Right. And so let's say that the AI realizes this particular human in the loop is causing me to lose right over and over. And so what I'm going to do is I'm going to socially engineer the values and views of this person through coercion. I'm going to coerce this human into making the decisions, leading the human by the nose.

50:31 Right. So this might be something that takes six months, a year or two years. Five years, right? Or a matter of days because it's so damn sophisticated. Right. He. And then it says, not only does it, coerce the human into making the decisions at once to be so it can be successful, but it does it across the entire echelon of people involved, right?

50:52 Because it can think so much more dynamically and on so many different levels and variables way beyond any human mind. Right? So because we're not dealing with a, you know, 120 IQ thing here, if all of a sudden you're dealing with a 2000 5000 level IQ entity, you think you're even going to see that coming? Nope.

51:16 Why not? Yeah. This we talk about that the other day, this eclectic mix of, you know, ideas and cultures. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. So to avoid copyright, I'm going to end now.