0:00 This path should be pretty decent to walk. Okay. Hopefully there's not too much red noise. I think we'll be fine. It can't be worse than my neighborhood. Yeah, right. Yeah. We inevitably get on that greenway, and I think that's pretty good. Yeah, it works pretty. That's. That's nice, I like. It's usually somewhat quiet. And there are a couple people in this neighborhood that'll are maybe try to buy with with with it with a I don't even know what they're called those like tailpipes and they get louder and you know whistle ticks I don't know.

0:30 Yeah. Whistle tips or you know, just I don't know there's like certain type of mufflers that are designed to not muffle to enhance. Yeah. First of all we know them coming or some dude that went by like, I was up pretty late last night. Some dude that went by, like, really late. Like, must have been 230 in the morning or something, you know?

0:50 And it was really ridiculously loud. Really? Yeah. And you know, how, do you ever hear this before that? Like, cold air makes outlet sound carry further and and I haven't. Yeah. Okay. Cold air, crisp air. Yeah, yeah. Cold air will, like, transmit, sounds further and kind of cool and, louder. That's awesome. Then, like, warm, humid air.

1:15 Okay. Yeah. That's interesting. Right? That is, Yeah. Well, I mean, we know sound travels differently from different mediums, just like white girls. Differently. Yeah, sure. And I mean it. That bears out our experience. Really? I mean, when it's the cold early hours in the morning. Definitely. You seem to hear things from miles away. Yeah, yeah. And, from when we when we do this, from starting off at your place, remember we were talking about we could hear the ambient of the of the city in general.

1:45 Yeah. Hear the Indianapolis of the city. You could. You could hear it waking up. Almost. Yeah. That's where you think of the roadways as, like blood vessels in the cities as, like organs. Yeah, yeah. Sounds as like, you know, supplemental, like lymphatic system. Yeah. Starting to think about the muscles and veins that hold it all together. You start to think about, you know, did all the autonomous and semi-autonomous processes that are brought into action just by time?

2:15 Yeah. It's time for this to start today. Yeah. It's like the, like civilization as an organism. Almost. Yeah, yeah. Pretty interesting. Which is a nice tie into our topic today, which is, interconnectedness and symbiosis amongst what living things and perhaps artificial, futuristic, non-living things. And sorry, basically our topic is symbiosis. Right. And on any level that we can manage to eke out a connection is what we're talking about symbiotic symbiotic relationships on.

2:50 So is my son's birthday this weekend, and we're at the birthday party and one of the one of their one of his friends. Parent, we have a tendency to talk. Talk. And, this guy named Jesse, he's a really cool dude. Cool. And, he works for the national geological. So whatever it is. Okay. Not NOAA, but, you know, maybe something like that.

3:12 And, so he's in it, of course. Right. You know, we have a tendency to, like, gravitate towards the like. Yeah. Like, I see people just know it. Like, I don't know, it's like the same way, like, drug users can, like, find each other. Like they somehow. Right. Like, like like someone that's a druggie can, like, go to a strange city and find other druggies, like, so fast.

3:36 Right, right. Well, I see people can just, like, find it. People like. Yeah. And they talk. And it's not always for me. It's not always it people, but it's people that think like it people. Yeah. Like, there's this guy I ran into at a, it was in a birthday party and. No, no, no, no, this was at the the like this meetup for the parents when they were dropping their kids off to go to prom.

4:01 That's what they asked. And so summers middle kid, you know, they were renting this sprinter, Mercedes sprinter who got a farm in and wow, that's a lot of, and, there was this guy there. It was like, almost like he was this shining beacon of nerd. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, oh, well, that's the guy I'm talking to today.

4:27 Just naturally just knew, right? Like, oh, yeah, it's it's like there's a giga Chad of of nerd of it. Nerd. Net. So it's just obvious all the outward signs. And he wasn't it guy. He was a, the IT guy that was there I didn't like as much. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was like a, he was like a, a travel, like, high end travel guy.

4:51 Yeah. You can't have like, this Highlander. There can only be one nerd in the room. Type centrality sometimes. Yeah, right. Associated with it. Nerd them. Yeah. The the IT guy that was there. But mostly we get along, right? Yeah. Yeah. The IQ guy that was there I mean he was cool, but he did. He was a former cop and he did a he owned the company that did for lenses.

5:15 Oh that's kind of cool. It was kind of cool. But he was like one of those dudes where he only wanted to talk about it for like, two minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, you got to respect that, though. Yeah. It's like, hey, you're not at work. Not at work. And and that's. Was it. So he and I were talking about stupid shit, like drinking.

5:32 And then me and the other guy was talking about nerdy shit. Nice, nice. I like that the idea of the Giga Chad. But for it. Yeah. What would you call it? I don't know, almost something as snappy as Giga Chad and metadata. Right.

5:53 Which, of course, I'll have to have a picture of.

5:57 On the, on on the, on the website today. Yeah, yeah. That metadata syndrome account you've got is hilarious.

6:06 Yeah. Well that's it. I'm about to drop some a bunch of drop a couple, fewer things and see if, see if my sense of humor resonates with anybody. Right. In this particular fashion. So, I don't care. I think someone will copy it anyway, so I can just tell you what is what is going to be sure.

6:25 So I'm getting a dress up nice. And, get my get my desk like an official looking desk. And I'm gonna use the the backdrop. Either White Street or Green Street. Haven't decided yet. Think white screen. Okay. And on project onto it. All these really fast paced, funny, hilarious viral TikTok like, you know, cat videos, people get hit in the nuts like America's funniest video stupidity.

6:50 Oh, man. There's this really rapid, collage video collage of all just like, but tapping that cultural well that we've all been acclimated to of. This is what's funny now. Yeah. Right. Right. Like, maybe some Bella porch or some, you know, just I don't understand why it's popular things, you know, Kardashians just all really fast, rapid going background.

7:13 Yeah. Over the course of, like, maybe 30s to a minute. Okay. And, I have Megan work on that video cause for me. Oh, no. She's she's way more in tune with, you know, what's what's fresh than I am. Got it. Or she says my memes are the freshest. Oh, nice. And, so it's happened to that and then all been to be, to quote our soon to be overlord, Elon Musk.

7:35 She has the dentist memes, right? Yeah, yeah. And so what I'm going to do is I'm going to like dress up, maybe suit and tie type thing sitting at a, at a desk, almost like I'm being like a newscaster, you know, comb my hair flat down and whatnot. And, you're perfect for that. Sure. Oh, great. That's so telling.

7:55 So, you're telling me that you don't think you could do that to a T. Yeah, well, I don't think it's the only thing I think I can, but it is really not my. It's what would work. It's what I could sell. But it's definitely not my core inner self. No, no, no, I don't feel like it's a quarter herself.

8:14 I feel like no people would believe it. And you could sell it and you could make it fun. It. Yeah, I met this other guy recently. That would be even better at doing this. Like by by a long shot than me. And, I was thinking about asking him to do it, but, he's like, kind of a new acquaintance, and so it'd be kind of an awkward ask.

8:34 Okay. Anyway, so maybe you could do it a few times, show it to him and be like, hey, yeah, you'd be perfect to do this out of shop. And so from a really articulate, witty, very, very dense, heavy language, yet rock solid, dead serious right face talking about these existential crisis, these that humanity faces. Right. So like so like through the lens of.

9:02 Yeah. Ladies and culture. Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, climate change is an existential crisis. We were ready on a potential feedback loop in our environment where, you know, and then talk about climate refugees and, like, really dense, heavy, heavy, heavy. Right. Factually accurate. Holy shit. Everyone needs to hear the message with memes supported with totally bullshit memes in the background.

9:27 Now, the means aren't playing. Audio is just the visual, right? So the audio is the saying. That, infotainment thing, that kind of, yeah, it's supplement. Yeah. Edutainment thing that that's what I meant, that, like, John Oliver and some other people kind of play in. Yeah, that short, dense, you know, meme format, you know, in a the idea, of course, isn't to like, the idea isn't to really have people focus on the message of how important, you know, it is that we all just climate change.

10:02 That's not the point. The point is, is that you are totally ignoring this message because of the shit in the background. Like you and you and you and we. Right? We're all being blindsided by.

10:16 Nonsense, perpetual entertainment, right to the point where to our own demise, like we're we're being so sidetracked. Our brains are being so, saying that there's no way anybody can get enough of truth or information out of it. Yep. No, no, no, I mean, yes, people might be able to get a negative truth and information about it, but it's like it's just like that thing where your parents tell you it your vegetables.

10:44 Right. Okay. Like, and you are what you eat. So you're saying that facts had become the vegetables of the of the intellectual world? Yes. We are in a post fact world where we have way too much access to candy. 100%. What I'm saying. You nailed it, like out of the park. That's exactly what the idea is, is like, we all fucking know.

11:09 And if you don't, you might have mental disorder. That McDonald's cheeseburger is not the right answer, right? For your health, you know, for your wellness and to nourish your body, right? Yeah.

11:25 Look, we're stuck in that this podcast brought to you by the comments. Oh, yes. Yes, the golden arches delivering Happy Meals in a smile in every box. Oh, yes. Yes. And, my favorite McDonald's meme is you said that you hated by people. We listened. Now, from from here on out, our straws will be 100% pure ivory.

11:56 Right? I love it, I love it.

12:00 Non recycled. Yeah. Yeah. Here. Burgeoned Ivor. Virgin Ivory.

12:08 You you can you can even taste the the the tears of the elephant. Still on the still fresh on the ivory. Oh, oh. Speaking about elephants, I worried something recently. They, put, you know, a sensor cap on a few elephants in their interacting with, handlers and, those open habitats and effort. Gotcha. And, the same areas of the brain that activate when a human being pets a dog or a cat.

12:44 Happen. When the elephants interact with humans, they think of us as pets.

12:53 Nice, nice, nice where they might think this is pets. Yeah, this this road has gotten busier. I mean, there's been a lot of traffic so far on this way. More than I expected. But hey, it is what it is. Yeah, but it's not terrible road. No. It's like, yeah, if we're around my area, it's like you get a plate of garbage trucks or you get, you know, a city bus.

13:16 Yeah. We're just had several school busses go by, but that's okay. It says, you know, the, the sound clip that we're using inside the studio of this traffic as well to heavy. We got to go back to the to the last traffic soundtrack. Yeah. You know, I mean, guys. The problem is we have it randomized picking the track and trying to win.

13:36 They got picked today. Yeah I mean AI has failed us again. Yeah. It's just not not as good as the human said. Oh I thought it was a PowerShell script. Picking an audio.

13:52 Too funny. Yeah. So, anyway, this idea of a to kick off this idea, there's this, like, time of the year in North Carolina or we're in Charlotte, North Carolina for everyone that doesn't know that by now or is new. There's this time in early spring and maybe multiple cycles throughout the year. But, you know, I need to get my almanac to tell you.

14:15 But, for Richard's Almanac. It's so funny. That's such a term that's like, yeah, Almanac. This just implies something in my mind or is like a studious old man, so old to figure out the best time of year to do something. That's right, that's right. And not only not only does the almanac say. But my I can feel my by my, the writers and my bones that we're going to have another cold snap.

14:44 So it's not. It's truly the plant. Yeah. My grandpa lives and dies by that thing when it comes to planting. Oh, and a people, old timers that live and die by their their bodies and their own intuition too, which is going to be something that I want to bring up. But anyway, so these times of the year where the trees will basically.

15:04 Sperm all over everything in the form of pollen. Yeah. And everything will have, like, this fine. Mysterious. Yeah. Yellowish gold, coating. Right. Appalling that sometimes can get so heavy that literally like your streams of it running down the side of the road when it rains. No. And, like, literally everything will get dusted with this, you know, golden yellowish goldenrod color, cornflower or whatever.

15:32 Yeah. Whatever the wet safe, color is. Yeah, yeah. Kind of keeps on the right. Like, color is right. And, did we go with the Pantone yellow color of the year? I don't know. Yeah, yeah, even to the extent to where on the evening broadcast or on the morning news forecast, will even tell the index of how much tree sperm, you're likely to be to be a bucket in each day.

16:01 So a visual for you. Yeah. And so, anyway, that that that, pollen has a major effect on the respiratory health of many, many people, right? There's my sniffling and snorting right now. Yeah, that and it's the the, temperature has taken a dip recently. We had this untended drill. We need to invest in one of these ice fucking things.

16:25 He just had to make stupid money anyway. Yeah, they must, because they exist. All right. This is, economic evolutionary biology. You know, terms will also get into evolutionary biology. Basically, these trees, you know, have sexual reproduction in the form of the pollen and then the the stigma and all the take said pollen and make it about. Yeah.

16:50 Well, in this case this is more wind driven. And so in essence we're asking, hey, is this nature's smart does is this a way of nature to communicate via a biochemical signal? Right. Yeah, absolutely. It's a form of communication. Amount of data in like it would say one human inaccurate is like I would have to look up the exact but it's out fucking rages like the, you know, average I, I guess human Jekyll is maybe a little crass, but just the, it's not crass.

17:24 This is nature, right? Right up. Encoded data in the DNA of one of the people are going to understand more of what we're saying there. It's encoded DNA. Lots of her. Well, same thing with pollen. Pollen? Never thought of it like that. But there's a lot of genetic data in Colin. And there's a lot of obviously, like you said, one of the effects is an allergic reaction.

17:48 What are some of the other visible effects of this, tan sperm. Yeah. Right. Right, right. So like, we talk about human dig, treating a digital quantity of data every day and just bigger and bigger every day. And it's like this just megalithic, accumulation of data that just keeps coming day after day after day. Right. You've talked about that before.

18:10 And that number is absolutely amazing, right? Well, you know, I remember you pay the Zeta whatever, you know, huge number you want to put on a base of data that human beings are creating every day. Yeah. Is nothing. Nothing. In contrast to the amount of data that nature is transmitting every day. I mean, we haven't even we haven't even, like.

18:34 And nature even scratched the surface in terms of volume as the amount of data we've seen. Nature's official nature doesn't just throw this away. There's got to be something done with it, right? Yeah. There's a reason why the pollen coats everything, right? Yeah. Because, yeah, it seems like a, carpet bombing, if you will. But that pollen does more than just, provide sexual reproduction.

18:59 It's chemical signals. It's all kinds of things that a bunch of things that we don't even know yet. Right? Beyond what it's doing, but it's also very efficient at transmitting itself. You know, the species have been around, you know, before animals. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it continues to be the most abundant bio biomass on the planet. And, you know, we see on the macro are efficient ways of seeds, catching the wind.

19:30 You know, or drifting to the ground or things like that. Yeah. All these, like, clever little delivery mechanisms. But ultimately, do we even notice because it's so microscopic? There may be barriers, adaptations to tolerance. There may be various. There may be various adaptations to this pollen that do the similar thing. Right, right, right. Some pollen may be more efficient and, transmission some may be better at propagation.

20:00 Who knows? Yeah. And and others in, in, in its total expression. And this delivery might be just the maximum appealing to a pollinator. There we go. Like so you know there being at the end of the day in a metal full of flowers, when the bees have their choice of flower to visit, the one that's most appealing and most effective for the bee wins out, right?

20:24 Yeah. It gets the gets the gets more heavily distributed, more heavily upon it. As I'm sure certain pollen probably allows them to create more food, right. Or whatever. So you have this like animal species that has locomotion and has community and civilization can offset a lot of a lot of the functionality. Right? So like we in a symbiotic relationship with our civilization, if you will, right?

20:49 Human beings, especially in the modern era, offset a tremendous amount of our daily needs to the collective. Yeah, right. So like someone in farming my food, right. Someone is creating the technological infrastructure that I'm using every day to do my daily, you know, things, right, and so forth. So I have access to resources due to the distributed collective of my species, right, of other human beings.

21:19 Well, plants, a tree, for example, has to be mostly self-contained. So we think. Right. Well, but there again, you know, even just on the various crafts level, we can see a community of trees. That's how we have to start looking at it. Yeah, we can see a cost of trees that are obviously working together because they live together.

21:42 Right. But they achieved their functions together. Yes, but but clearly they have to they have to without a doubt, they have to be in many ways self sufficient to survive. True. But you can have a one, one, three, but you can obviously have a tree that works that at least doesn't impinge upon other trees. Right, right, right.

22:03 That we at least know. But more than likely, since they've been around for longer than we, there is some sort of community, if not rudiments of civilization. Yeah, there's all kinds of, plant species where you'll see a massive, flourish, if you will, or big community of a certain type of tree or, or shrub. Yeah. And they have a, a route network that's all interconnected.

22:28 In many cases they're one organism. There we go. And some we've documented as being one single organism that spans miles like redwood trees. Oh, there's an example of what I was talking about. Yeah. Yep. So we were joking the other day. It's like there's this guy driving around like obviously small big syndrome, huge truck and in a nutsack hanging off the the bumper, we call it a train struck.

22:55 Ha.

22:57 Which I thought was hilarious. I have a I have to last thing that that person would want to want to be called. Oh, totally want to be known as driving a train truck. I have a little meme picture that goes goes to this up.

23:12 Big truck like that makes a lot of noise. And the, Bumper sticker says, yep, it's small.

23:25 I like it. From what I understand. Back in the Romans, the Romans favored small, culturally favored small fallacies. Interesting. It was seen as higher intelligence, more civilized. All right. Whereas, like the barbarians that would come from the North, that were, you know, sex crazed, dominant, were seen as less civilized. And, you know, we're we're we're actually depicted in the, in the art as being, having gigantic fallacies, as like animalistic.

24:01 They're more animalistic. Right. All right. So the the tiny sculptures were supposed to be more a man, a learned man, right? Intellect and. Yeah. Process.

24:17 Yeah. So the currently small phallus was seen as more refined, more civilized. No. You know, it's, you know, in that culture and, and even like, so it became a sign of being rooted in the intellectual. Yeah. And actually more sexually desirable to like smaller phallus. So, like, you're not going to wreck me. Well, I don't think that was the thinking.

24:39 I think it was like, I'm not an animal doing you. I'm a, you know, civilized emblem doing. Yes. I'm a civilized gentleman who cares about the motion of his ocean, who puts care and time into hitting all the sides. Yeah, because he can't fill it up. Yeah. The emphasis is on the motion in the ocean, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

24:59 Okay. Sure. Whatever. Well, I mean, that's the old age. You can't fill it up, hit the sides, hit all the sides. Oh, I see, so, so the, you know, secretly from certain certain time of the month when the hormones were kicking in, the woman would crave the barbarian, right? Right. We're gonna, like, try to cross the street.

25:21 Oh, Jesus. I think we'll get a chance, even though there's no button on this, Department of Social Services. Oh, it's like they had a a failed strip mall here, and they convert it to DS. Well, that says I think the government should do that without malls. Take it back over. Yeah. So this is basically like a, the, the main hub for Mecklenburg County.

25:44 Oh, cool. For all of the SS. You know what? What I thought because of the way the architecture is, I was thinking it was a good will. Headquarters looked like it, doesn't it. Yeah. That's a that's down the way actually. Okay.

25:59 So I don't know on the way back if there's a little button we can press to get a tree man. But I don't, I don't see I don't see one, but whatever. There's not a lot of people that typically crosshair don't think. Or if they do, they're usually carrying a cardboard sign of some kind. True. And we're not trying to appraise on their corner.

26:18 Oh hell no. I'm not going to even try to start one of those turquoise. No, I'd hate to know. Shit that bro, I don't mind talking about this. Yeah, I was talking to my buddy. Sent you. Who's from India? Like I'm talking about the man was from India to the point where he was out there in southern India stealing mangoes from his neighbor neighbor to eat that kind of poor India.

26:43 Gotcha. And, he's now a IT guy with thanks to Disney or a Disney. No accent whatsoever. Nice. They had, like, dialog coaches and, we talked about the AI with that, but so he, he was talking about how being a beggar is a business in India. Why not? He's like, why not put a structure over it, right?

27:12 He said, there are people who, of course, have people who go out and beg for them. But he said, there are individuals who make enough money begging that they have like the equivalent of like a little stripe terminal or a PayPal terminal, whatever. Wow. And they bring it with them. They convince you at the side story and they're like, oh, you don't have cash, but out.

27:33 Don't worry. I have this technology. Yeah. And then they he said said beggars really do go back to a house. Yes. Yeah. Right, right. So on this this homeless guy recently or beggar recently in the Walmart by hitting me up and same kind of idea. He says, you know, I was like, sorry, man, I just have classic on me.

27:53 And, you know, I wish I had some cash. He sounded like he seemed legit, but body any and he told me where the nearest ATM was and I'm like, no, that's not having him. Yeah, I'm not going to the ATM, buddy. I'm not letting you walk me to the ATM. You're right. Right, right. Yeah. What a good idea.

28:10 Right? So you can threaten my life and extort me for further money. And I was with my son and he was asking me afterwards. He's like, you know, were you genuinely. If you had cash, would you give it to him? And I was like, in most cases the answer would be no. But in this case, yes, I think I would have like he his story seemed pretty, pretty decent.

28:30 Yeah. And he seemed credible. And he pulled the heart strings just enough. Yeah. But then the ATM saying, you know, changed my mind a little bit. He just has a good, good routine. Yeah, yeah. Well whatever. You know, whatever everyone's trying to when you go to the fucking job, interview your baby, is there a version of it? It is.

28:48 It is begging it structured begging. Yeah. And and you know, you the only, the only argument is say, oh, well, I'm working for that money. Oh okay. Okay. And I sense okay, just like the beggar relies on the largest of society to, to give to him, to scam off the top. That's what we're doing at work. We're relying on the largest of our employer to give us to pay into our benefits, to pay into our retirement, to do a fraction of what they used to do for employees.

29:17 Oh, there's benefits in retirement still all right? Still hell, maybe maybe for another week. Nice. I mean, I think the banks are, you know, the I think that a SBB failing Silicon Valley bank. Affected, like, 30 banks. Yeah. Well, when you let, you know, banks do what they do, and you, I think, you know, relax regulation and you, you know, just the whole fucking fiat system at large is going to produce this greed that's going to produce these problems.

29:51 Well, that's just in cycles. That's why they're wondering why they're doing a digital dollar pilot, and they're wanting to move to a central bank. Digital currency. Yeah. I never trust any of that bullshit. I don't like it. I don't trust any of it. It it's it's always pumps the rich again, another form of tax on the masses. And so always, always the same thing over and over and over.

30:11 And the people who are behind it say, hey, things like Swift the exist, one of the existing middlemen for, you know, transactions and management thereof of money and such would be cut out. Swift is the one conducting the CBD. CBD see. Yeah, yeah. This is are not changing. No way, no way. Right. They they probably see this like, potentiality of crypto emerging.

30:36 Right? Right. It won't control if you can't beat them join them. So instead of but. Well it is not if you can't beat them join them first and government of any stripe. If you can't beat them destroy them and then do what they're doing. Well, yeah, but for a totalitarian government of any stripe, like you said, it offers them even more control because, hell, that stimulus payment could have gone on a card with an expiration date.

30:59 Right. Right here. Right. You know, it's like, hey, you guys have to inject this back into the economy within 120 days. You can't have it all the way back to the banking crisis, right? Tarp and all that would be playing check written to all these big banks. And they will do whatever they want with the money while they invest it with their own purposes.

31:17 And they don't cut a bunch of ones site to come merging small businesses. But if you had control over over it with a central bank digital currency, you could put restrictions around it and you could say, hey, this bell out we gave you, you got to use it for this. Yeah. It's it's it's really it's really a sign of what's to come because people's lives in totality are just governed by chasing these, these pieces of paper, you know, like Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy kind of metaphor.

31:46 Yeah. But at the same time, the level of control over, you know, people's total dominion over people's lives, what they do with their fucking time, what what's in their mind and imagination. How are we going to pay this bill? I got sick or my kid got sick. Now we have this like, you know, do we have to remortgage the house?

32:03 I mean, fuck off. All you guys fuck off, right? Like fuck off, because that's the most tenuous control, the most tiny little grasp of of what we, you know, we can't really manage our lives. The Great Awakening might just come finally in the form of fuck off. Take your money and shove it up your ass. Where's your money is bullshit.

32:23 We're all going off the grid. No, we're going to. We're going to do things a new way. Like like I don't I don't know how exactly how what that's going to look like, but we're going to do something ourselves because you just keep fucking us every step of the way. Like inflation is just it's just a new tax, just invisible tax, because you work for a set salary that you've negotiated with your employer.

32:43 Now your dollar goes goes a lot, you know, not as far. And each dollar that you make doesn't go as far. You've now been taxed. And they're also just take it right out of your checks. And there are little use happening all over the place in that regard. Like, that over employment thing. Yeah. I recently read somebody on Reddit was talking about, look, I've been over employed for the last 18 months working two jobs.

33:06 I make $300,000 a year now because I've invested in several online devices. And he's like, I need this. Was asking MarketWatch. I call him a market watch. Hey, where should I seek financial advice? You know, what would be a good advisor in this situation? Right. And, they give him several ideas and a kind of advisor they might want.

33:32 And they directed into this website that kind of helps you pick one, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But the idea of being over employed is definitely a fuck you, the establishment. Right? Yeah. What are you talking about? That time, you know, like, moonlighting, working multiple jobs simultaneously, and that's what this guy's doing. Yeah. Yeah. Right. He's he's doing, you know, he's making twice as much $150,000 a year, roughly, at each job.

34:00 Pulling 300 grand a year for these. Managed to do it for those two years. Yeah. Like you just show up to your daily scrum. You're you're working the East Coast and West Coast, something like that. Oh yes. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so the scrums are offset right. You then you then farmed off some of it to third party.

34:17 Right. There was I mean we've talked about the guy who rumored had seven people working for him. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. He's turning great code, you know. Now you're just turning into ChatGPT or other AI generated, you know, stuff. Working three jobs now, right? Right. And without the involvement of another human being, you know, management ever had. Yeah.

34:41 You're not the you're not the stupid that that committed the code. Did you just say stupid? Because I love that. Yes, yes, yes, that's what I said. And then it works like an IT manager that knows nothing about it. Right? I've had one of those. Only one, thankfully. Yeah, that's all I've ever had. That's why I don't work in that area anymore.

35:03 Yeah. So anyway. So anyway, this, let's get to let's get to the nuts of the conversation about the, the symbiosis here. So, I like I, I've, I've come into this new kind of, I know I'm just scratching the surface that coming to this new domain of, like, rationalization when it comes to the living world, right?

35:26 Yeah. And, Yeah, this road noise is this is a bad choice. We're we're behind the. Yeah, but that's only going to go a few buildings. There's a road up here that we can. Yeah. Kind of go more back way, but it's. Yeah. Whatever. My bad. It happens. Yeah that happens. So anyway, there's this. I don't want to call it a philosophy, but it's a, it's a, it's a foundation for a philosophy, I think, to where not only do we have, like the living world, the living earth, the earth is a living organism, but we have no real no real speciation distinction where everything is cross communicating chemically, biochemically and with DNA and with

36:13 with biological information way beyond any of our all of our wildest imagination. Well, because we operate on such a macro level. I mean, yeah, it's it's really hard to understand, even just as a simple example, make inroads into understanding the quantum level. Right, right, right. You know, and, and there's lots of other levels beyond, I mean, that we were talking earlier about genetics and, what we think is quote unquote junk DNA, even in our own, you know, genome here.

36:52 And we don't even have a full mapping of the human genome. The Human Genome Project was an amalgamation of a few different, genetic material from lots of people. It's not an entire mapping of the possibilities of humanity's genome. Sure, it's just a small subset. Right? Right, right. Yeah. For sure, because they can't. Is it possible? Right. You have to at least get their currency.

37:18 Yeah. You have. Well, yeah, that's what I did. I did mean that I think someday it would be possible. But literally you'd have to sequence every person right now. And again just the data therein would be man. So so what I believe, beginning to believe is like, yes, there's a, there's a kind of domain for which I would consider me.

37:41 Right? Yeah. Like there's kind of a boundary where my skin ends, where the gas exchange interface in my lungs and the surface area of my gut interacts with the outside environment. Sure. But I'm in the dated with all kinds of bacteria. There's more bacterial cells, not in vital mass, but in quantity in my body. And then they're even more viruses in my body at any given moment than there are human cells.

38:05 Yeah. And ultimately, this biome of viruses and bacteria, that's what makes up you. Right. And it's constantly in communication with me biochemically. And they may also be exchanging genetic material with each other or you. Yes. So like a woman has a baby and there's all this new information about biochemically all these massive transformations we already know, like hormone changing the stuff.

38:29 But there's like these little biochemical changes and different epigenetic augmentations, which is this after the baby, right? For sure. And then the baby like the mothers. I think I might have described this before, but it's so beautiful. Or gross, depending on your point of view. But, you know, the, the, the woman's vaginal canal produces tremendous amounts of lactobacilli right before the baby is born.

38:51 There we go. And then when the baby passes to the birth canal, it literally gets slathered, slathered like, like spackle in in this particular type of bacteria, it's a lot of bacillus. I mean, we've just recently begun to understand how critical it is. Gut health. That's right. Instantaneously begins to propagate in the in the baby's digestive system. And it's right there for that first sip of colostrum.

39:16 It's right there for the first for the first lactate. Lactate that comes in from the breast milk. Right. And now the baby has a way to digest it. Yeah. That naturally I wouldn't say naturally, but like without that bacteria like, you know, the baby wouldn't make it. Well yeah. Because we wouldn't be able to process the A1 and A2 lactose that is present in the mother's milk and then other things that's going to consume.

39:40 Right. And so, you know, maybe that's born C-section doesn't get that. So it needs formula instead of mother's milk. Right. Right. And and the baby that's born, you know, to a mother who doesn't want to breastfeed doesn't get a lot of those things either. Right? Obviously, breast milk is still nature's best formula when even from a semi healthy mom, I mean, you're going to transmit all sorts of bacteria, all sorts of, you know, antibodies, everything.

40:09 Right. And so instead of a society being aligned along those understandings and principles of nature and understandings of what's best for our the health of our offspring, we inject a commercial enterprise spade formula, this, that then contaminates every level right in this thing that we end up with shortages of. Yeah. So like the, you don't end up with a shortage of mother's milk, but you do end up with a shortage of formula that really impacts society, that doesn't understand how to scoop.

40:37 Yeah. So the lady that's really busy with their career, whatever can supplement with the formula. And then her she produces less. And then next thing you know the baby's 100% on formula. She dried up. So and now we're not trying to say that, you know, this is the only way forward and that women absolutely have to breastfeed. We're just using this as an example of a deviation from the natural that would clearly benefit a baby.

41:02 No, it's not telling anybody wants to do. But but it's pointing out that there's a financial interest in, in destroying or you know, transforming the breastfeeding have formula feeding something that's interceded in this relationship, something that's created a to all, an unknown layer of a commercial enterprise. Right. I don't think it's a good idea to have a money interest when it comes to feeding the children.

41:29 Yeah. Right, right. Since the, you know, so like in the hospital, the, the, the formula companies, if they're allowed to do it will give samples that of a formula to their new mother. Right. Well, what bothers me most about it is it's not like the pipeline is secure. Right? Right. Who had so many shortages lately of it? Yeah.

41:47 You know, it'd be different if they could just produce this shit unbounded. And it was cheap, right? Yeah. So there's there's all these, like, layers therein. But the idea that there's a money interest behind. Right. Driving women off of the natural process. Right. You know, and unfettered, if completely unfettered, you know, for all intents and purposes, that would be if, you know, it's an evil idea, it's because you're inevitably, you know, trying to increase profit over potential of reducing the the health potential of the baby.

42:21 Yeah. You know, what the fuck? Should we turn around? Yeah. In a minute. There's a we go down that road. All right. Yeah. So you know that you've heard me say a whole bunch of times about this, like, kind of baseline. I call it baseline socialism, which is a terrible thing to say, because this was well worth socialism is so overloaded.

42:44 Yeah, but there's like, there's, like, freshness, human needed necessity. Things in a society function normally mostly the lower rings of the higher hierarchy of needs. Marvelously. Right, right. Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Yeah, yeah. So, so most of the things that are on those lower rings should be like just protected collective, you know, resources for the masses. Absolutely. Because it we talked about a thousand times.

43:11 It's a platform to build on. Right. It's a yeah. And then you get the slippery slope argument. People will say, oh that's just the beginning. And next thing you know you're pushing for more and more, even if that's the beginning and we're pushing for more and more. What's the fucking problem here? What's the problem? What's the problem with daring to support your fellow human beings and trying to make it so that they have a fucking chance?

43:37 Because unfortunately, we have this, manifest destiny kind of in our culture, in American exceptionalism, in our culture. And the idea of idea of anything socialistic, right, is like seeing it for many culturally as a threat to that and makes America then just like all the other European countries or whatever, blah, blah. And they, they believe through cultural for whatever reason, even though it's not in their best interest, which is another huge topic, right?

44:08 They believe that at the end of the day, for some reason, that's that that virtue is more important than their own best. And they also believe somehow, someway that their members of the cognitive. There are members of the people in the note that they're members of this upper crust of society because they what they're not exactly. Okay. So it's got to the point where we think we can pull it up.

44:29 We're just use this smart map bullshit, and we're going to fire pretty much everybody but one guy who runs the store for 12 hours. Yeah, we need a whole podcast to talk about this whole economic displacement of labor. You know, I'm sorry, reality, because it's a definite something worth talking about. Yeah, sure. Yeah. So, you know, back to the symbiotic.

44:49 I was talking about how lactobacilli gets slathered, you know, through the birth canal. The mother's body incubates this particular type of bacteria in the trillions. Right. Baby comes out in this soup of birth birthing. Yeah. And the first thing that adjust, it brings that like they're bacilli with it, it's able to process the milk. Right. It's it in its sinuses.

45:11 It gets into his mouth. It gets it all over its skin. Right. There's transdermal ingestion too. Like what goes on your skin absorbs through your skin, right through the phospholipid layer of your cells and the spaces between your, your cells. So like the, you know, the father, supposedly like the father, being shirtless and having skin to skin contact with the newborn.

45:32 Yeah. Actually passes antibodies through the skin from from the father to the strength from transmission and ingestion. Yeah. That's cool. And then we've got on top of that, I'm sure you've got some of the microbiome on their skin transferring over. Correct. And so like your gut flora can place you in, you know, like within 50 miles or something of where you're region.

45:54 So like whoa. Yeah. If you, if you get someone's poop right, which is like 80% bacteria. Yeah. Which is, which will be a signature, right? A bacterial flora, a signature of a person's intestines. Oh, my God, I got a question. Almost like a fingerprint. If you're a trucker, like a poop print. And you,

46:15 You catch pinkeye from a stripper farting in your face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you travel the country. You do this multiple times. I'm guessing you're increasing the health of your gut, flora. Well, no, you're just probably have pretty good immunity to derivatives of variants of pinkeye.

46:36 And you have a story to tell. Or I got or a sword. Different states or a story to make up to your wife. How your significant other. Why you keep getting pinkeye. Yeah. And why the credit card change actions where you purchase farts in a jar off the internet, you know, or on your car. Right. It's so funny that the parts in the jar were to cover up going to the strip club.

47:03 There you go there. So the club just charges that apart in a jar rather than a strip club charge. Oh, I was thinking you went in with cash. Old fashioned stripper money. Gotcha. And then you had to come up with a cover story. So you're like, I have this hard to jar that is so, like, lesser of evils.

47:19 Like, not that she's okay with it, but it's easier for her to accept that and move on. It's something you can talk about in couples therapy. Then instead of getting divorced, you can't talk about the parts from the stripper getting pinkeye, right? You know? But the strippers farting in your in your face and you're laughing with your friend and some of her fecal materials.

47:39 Getting in your mouth and sinuses definitely will transmit quite a bit of. Yeah, quite a bit of, you know, immunity and. Yeah. And gut flora. Probably not like the right answer. Our body, for the most part, is secreting that because it sees it as toxic. It has no no more utility for that surplus bacteria. So you know it.

48:00 It's waste time. Yeah. It's called waste for a reason. Yeah. Anyway, sorry to get a stop there. No it's okay. It's it's part of this symbiotic thing. Right. So, like, symbiotic relationship between stripper apples and our eyeballs. Yeah, just one of many. Where complex domains of symbiosis is found in nature. Or even an unnatural, territories. Yes. Yeah.

48:25 So, like, you know, talking about shit, you have these fecal transplants where somebody gets a total change to their gut flora from someone who's really healthy. And that's an exact art right now. It's an exact art. But, like, it's been a miracle cure for some people. It has a case in point. One of the guys I worked with, his family's from Germany, and, they're doing a pretty good job over there exploring how to do it.

48:50 Well, his sister in law got a fecal transplant, and it surprised. The Germans are pioneering fecal matter engineering. Yeah. So, he, he said six months, seven months after he visited her, and he's like, he's, what, 20 years younger? He said she had energy, vitality. He had never seen her now. Yeah, yeah. So there's this massive there is this massive communication, chemical communication, biological communication between the the bacteria in your gut and their secretions and your hormone response.

49:32 Right. Massive massive massive. So like your body will attenuate to certain types of foods. You'll desire certain types of food more if you eat certain types. And I think we've talked about this to yeah. Because of the liver enzymes that get generated because of, you know, all of these things. There was a guy who got a lobe of his liver transplant from someone who died, and he kept craving spaghetti and Italian food and tomatoes, and we know all this stuff.

49:58 And he eventually, a few months in, reached out to the donor's family. He was able to. And he's like, I keep craving this stuff. They're like, that was just they refused. Jeez. Right. So like, he gets to this point where like to some extent or almost like somber fied by these chemical signals coming from our gut and from our organs.

50:17 Yeah, right. Like compelling us for certain things. You know, it's like a certain type of bacteria in your body is ringing the dinner bell for that, for food that has contains its choice of food. Yeah. It strikes the food. Yeah, yeah. And so then we have this, like hunger or craving for certain. And it's just that's that it bubbles up to the conscious mind.

50:38 Yeah. Right. And. Yeah. Exactly. And, and that's, that's the point of this whole conversation is that that sounds fun. The, the bubbling up to the conscious mind is a good way to say how all these potential interactions with the environment that are coming with biological signals and chemical triggers and all that, they're affecting our endocrine system, affecting our hormones.

50:57 Right? Yeah. Is not by accident. You know, it's like nature is working in concert to deliver these these days. And we do our we do ourselves an absolute service trying to understand these rather than trying to re-engineer them before we understand them, understand that the biological processes in place and look at them as maybe not the end all, be all.

51:22 But it's a pretty game. Good approximation of perfection. Yeah. And so. Right. That's a good way to put it. And then also like when we teach microbiology, we teach it from the perspective of these separate distinct organisms. Right. Rather than teaching it from the perspective of this concert of chemical interaction. And I will go ahead and say that's because we are limited human beings that can only hold so many little factoids in our heads at the same time, you know, so you know it.

51:50 You. But that's not the way to teach a system. That's not the way to give someone a holistic view. Yeah. You can't you can't do it from maybe you can do it in layers that interact and you can teach somebody that way. Yeah. So here we get into this domain of like general use of antibiotics. Be potentially horrible for you like horrible.

52:12 Horrible because they kill everything. Yeah. Right. Yeah. They kill certain types of certain families. Right. And bacteria, some of which would be unofficial. Right. But it's it's it's like the wholesale attack that chemotherapy is. Yeah. It's the facts everywhere. Right. So the future of like certain types of treatment for bacterial and viral infections will be, you know, medicines that target genetically, that exact bacteria that us that either use the body's own machinery or do a chemical lysis of just a particular bacteria, or maybe even inject a, inject some kind of virus that has been given a, gosh, what do you what do you call whatever you insert a loop of bacteria.

53:02 Oh, it's been given a splice DNA like. Yeah, in a function there's a function. Yeah, exactly. Gain a function. Research. But not with the negative connotations we've given it. Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. So so biologically speaking, you start to look at speciation a little bit differently. So, you know, you have like, for example, a termite. And within the termites gut is a protozoa that has the capability of an enzyme that can break down cellulose.

53:30 There we go. So the termite cannot digest naturally on its own that what's that? Cardozo, when present, lets it digest the cellulose and get the energy out of it. Right. And the the is, is a, I think that we can sort of distinct various degrees of symbiosis. So like that particular protozoa is very subservient to the host, like to the, to the, to the but there's a ceremony we may not understand, but there's a symbiotic relationship there too.

53:59 Right? But at the end of the day, is it is it one in the same organism, even though they each have their own distinct DNA patterns? Right, right. So like the mitochondrial DNA in our area, exactly where I was thinking to in our human eukaryote cells, we have mitochondrial DNA. Yep. Which is a bacterial DNA. Yeah. It's something that we incorporate that was incorporated into ourselves a long time ago.

54:23 Right. And it's something that, you know, we look at as to put it simply, the powerhouse of the cell. Exactly. And we also there's other functions that mitochondrial, mitochondria have are slowly unveiling that they do biochemical communication within the cell. Right. So this, this long standing, you know, in evolutionary terms, this this way back in early animal cells, you know, this, this larger macro cell envelops this micro cell to the point now to where they're one and the same, right, in fees, you know, into one into one.

54:59 We you know, the mitochondria is considered a foreign entity. No. And I think it's so crazy, though, that the DNA of the mitochondria changes so little. We can trace back lineages with it. Right. And so what this this begs the question is that perhaps how we see different points in the geological record, you know, fossil record, whatnot, like in the Cambrian explosion, these types of ideas of macro cells, basically in general, the macro subsuming the micro.

55:30 Yes. Right. And having them be working in concert for evolutionary progress. Yeah. Is, I think, probably the missing link to where like, I think, I think a lot of people that are against evolution or against the ideas of, my gosh, I'm not going to lie down. Well, it's not necessarily bring them around, but like explaining some of their questions, for example, they say given just they love saying this term given just chance alone.

55:55 Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. These proteins would emerge. The probability is so low is impossible. Right. Well, not if not if you have multiple organisms working in concert to each other to produce these things and that's it. It's not just combinations. It's not just translation. It's an ecosystem. It's a it's a layers of complexity that your little mind doesn't understand.

56:15 And right. And so when I say you're a little minded me all are little mind. Yeah I know you know me small minded. Yeah but I know that person well no no, no, I was trying to say I wasn't talking shit about creationists.

56:31 No. So again, you don't know what you don't know, right? So. Right. So, you know, and this is a domain that I have an intuition for, and I've read some belt, but I think that no human being possesses even close to understanding, even the scratching the surface on the actual full expression of of interactions between living things.

56:49 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you could take the best polymath who has multiple degrees in this arena, and still they could only communicate a fraction of what's happening. Yes. And so then I think that, speaks to a concert of environmental reality that each of us has is a subjective that is massively important into our overall Wyche like it becomes it becomes defining to to a large extent.

57:19 So we've already determined, no pun intended, that determinism plays a role in everybody's life. Right? Yeah, yeah. So if you then add this layer in oh my God. Now we're saying like, not only not only does each person, have a tremendous amount of, benefit or detriment to their environment based on their environment, now we're adding in this other layer.

57:46 Oh my gosh, a big part of even your thinking process to be influenced at a minimum, controlled to a maximum by these external environmental conditions. Right? Right. Or could you imagine like somebody has a certain flora. Yep. Or a brain tumor for example. Yeah. That's causing psychiatric psychotic behavior and makes them a killer. Are they are they still a killer?

58:08 This is there a cocktail of gut flora that makes a serial killer? Yeah. Combined with the killer's gut. Flora that makes an autistic person. Yeah. Gut flora or, even, like, total environmental expression of various chemical triggers, right? Right. Combined with maybe gut flora and skin for combined with these epigenetics being active, combined with this DNA expression combined with these environmental factors.

58:35 Right. Next thing you know, it's really hard to say anyone is guilty of doing anything. And ultimately you you can blame all these external factors. You can and, but I think ultimately there's a benefit then a of understanding it. I don't think it will. Do you think it will bubble up to the courts? Well, I think that it would have to inevitably, if it was, well, better understood.

59:02 Right. So like, for example, you know, if, if you consider people as products of their environment literally.

59:11 I feel like it can't bubble up to the port until we can fix it. If there's a way to fix it, then yeah, you can use it as a defense. Well or definitively. No, it like so. So if like, yeah, if you can send your shit to LabCorp and come back with a test. Right. So the level of complexity prevents it from being used as a defense right now.

59:30 But that doesn't mean lack of understanding and complexity. Lack of understanding complexity. Right. So like again, you don't know what you don't know. And so you don't know. Not even close. Right. The all the different variables that went into that person's that moment when they made that criminal decision. Right. We can't even list the variables. We're at a point of knowledge, can't even begin to right now, if someone murders somebody and they're like, I swear, when I looked at the person, I saw the demon in their in their face.

59:58 Right, right. Which has been said before. Right? And I know, I know, I, I just know I don't care what you do. You can murder me. You can execute me. Whatever. I don't care because I killed that demon. Right? Yeah. And they're like, what the fuck? You know, they put them on a lie detector and he saw him.

1:00:14 The truth, as far as he believes that it'd be true. Yeah, yeah, not the lie detector, but, you know, whatever. But if you're sure, you know, but, to go into that would be. Yeah. Yeah. So then they give him a full physical examination and they find this huge brain tumor. Right. And the brain tumor clearly is blocking all kinds of giving them.

1:00:34 Right, right, right. Okay. So we we've determined it's producing a mix of hormones. It's producing. It's maybe maybe it's a tumor. It's on his upping nerve. Yeah. And pressure on the brain. You know in general causing these loose nations right. Yeah. And then so they put him for surgery and they take the tumor out. It's a benign tumor, but it's causing your problem for this nation's.

1:00:53 And the person is now no longer having hallucinations. Wow. And tell me a court of law that wouldn't say not guilty. He had a metaphor condition causing him to have illuminations. And the doctor comes in and testifies that, yes, these type of tumors very much do cause solutions, and the person legitimately believes that that thing that they saw was real, leading to this incredible action.

1:01:17 Right. And so if you run that jury, would you find that person guilty, or would you say they had a medical condition? Who? So they're not guilty due to medical reasons? And I mean, I think juries would say not guilty. You know, what I'm going to do? Because I don't understand the medical condition part. I'm probably just to say, oh, you're guilty.

1:01:38 Sorry, buddy.

1:01:41 Because you still did commit that murder. Yeah. You did. You still did do it and you still did have some motor comatose. Yeah. So, you know, I see a sniper on the roof over there, and I get called a police officer. I get called, and there's a sniper on the roof. Right? Right there. Right. Yeah. And I get called, and, you know, I called in supervisor.

1:02:01 I take a photo. I had my body cam footage, and, you know, this guy's. This guy's getting ready to kill somebody with a sniper snake. Somebody. Right? And I pull out my sniper rifle out of my back of my trunk. Yeah, and I sniped that guy before he has a chance to snipe somebody else. And then I go over there and come to find out they were shooting a movie.

1:02:23 There's a there's a movie camera that I. That was outside of my field of vision that I couldn't see, that was shooting a scene where the sniper slaved somebody. Yeah, right. Yeah. Now, I just killed an actor, should I am I guilty of murder? I mean, I guess that questions being explored in that Russ trial with Alec Baldwin, right?

1:02:47 Yeah, I'm not familiar with it, but I don't need to be. I, you know, it's just those general categories of like, you know, are you guilty or not guilty? But now tie that back to this idea of like, there's these chemical and environmental circumstances triggers that are acting on my body and my brain all the time, right then have some form of influence over me that's known.

1:03:06 Oh, yeah. I mean, even to what degree is plasma? Plasma plasma gone die, right? Yeah, yeah. That particular one is documented as giving lower level animals less inhibition. Absolutely. And it's thought that examining people that it also makes us to have more risk taking behavior to. Absolutely. Right. And so then you have all these different various infections possible, you know, etc., etc. all can have these chemical triggers in our body, causing us to act in ways bizarre, even for our own selves.

1:03:41 Yeah. Right now the study was someone who's infected with that is more likely to run the red light. There you go, there you go. Right. And, you know, and in general, for taking more high risk behaviors. Yeah. Now, even something as simple as, like alcohol and drugs, alcohol and drugs goes into your body and changes your overall disposition towards the world 100%.

1:04:05 Right. So like that's a that's a really a potent example of what I'm talking about. And be for good or bad Hitler. Sure. But, it's it's been documented that exposure to psychoactive drugs of some types really does affect the person for the rest of their life. Possibly negatively as well. Yes. Yeah. Okay. I'm not saying that it's all positive.

1:04:28 Yeah, yeah. That's why I didn't go positive or negative on that. Right, right. And so these environmental, concert of chemical, biochemical signals that we're all exposed to on daily basis could mostly be beneficial to us, right? Could be. Yeah. Even though, like, surely some are more negative and others are more. But we don't even understand the levels that are of positivity or negativity or where where one bleeds into the other right now.

1:04:52 Right in the aggregate, you would assume that, they're beneficial because we're a successful species, right? Yeah. So, so like, I think not a stretch to say in the aggregate they're probably beneficial. Yeah. Yeah. But so, look, we go to like the protozoa example and there's other examples of like these kind of.

1:05:15 Now. Sorry about that. Yeah. No, you're, you know, there there's there's these layers to where we're talking about kind of like macro species working in concert, like an ant colony that's inside a certain type of tree, that the tree has a natural hollow inside of it, where produces the sugar that the that this particular species. Right. Yeah.

1:05:35 Like, feeds off of. And it protects it. Other predator. Right. It was that tree to be wildly more successful because it has a defender as a defense mechanism. Yeah. From, you know, even even some other species stealing upon its leaves or, or as fruit. These ants will. Come on. I know where in his hack, you know. So but these are like two macro species kind of working in harmony and concert together.

1:05:58 But then you have almost like this almost dominance hierarchy of some of these, almost like, servant servant symbiosis. So we're like one species is clearly the dominant over the, the, the more micro species like a human body, the human being is the macro, more dominant, member of the symbiotic relationship, but is still influenced and possibly unknown ways by a whole host of things.

1:06:23 Yes, yes, but but it would seem as if, like the more macro the organism, the more, it gets, the greater benefit. Yeah. Like. Yeah. It's, I don't want to say it in charge, but. So we could even generalize this and we could say the higher you go up in the level of abstraction, if a symbiotic relationship, right, then the more benefit you can clearly see.

1:06:47 Yes. Yes, exactly. So now we're doing what we always do. We move towards this abstract model is talking about advanced technology. Right. And so you've heard me now say and you send me ways to you how he regains have a symbiotic relationship with technology at last. Yeah. Right. So now we're talking. Now we get into the nuances of oh my gosh.

1:07:09 Wait a minute. Symbiotic AI. Yes. Are we are we very soon to be, if not already into this symbiotic mode, this dance with AI and and for now, we're still in the more dominant position in the relationship. But but what does it look like if we're not? If we're the then the, the and the picture of these same things, even if we feel like we are in the dominant position, there could be untold ways we are influence, right?

1:07:42 There could be ways that we that are undetectable to the average person, how they've been shepherded along or let along by this AI. And so really right now you can see a preponderance of human activity being governed by pursuing money. And that idea. Right? Yeah. Pursuing resources of various kinds and also being inundated with, with cultural and commercial ideology.

1:08:09 But what if, say, even a simplistic AI that, like we talked about before, the show, was geared towards order picking? Yes. And its function was I had the human expand the least amount of, say, a few things time, energy and, you know, maybe not. But those being a and having a couple of goal functions that were in harmony with one another.

1:08:41 Yes and yes, that would be the under the paradigm that there's somebody else is happening. Yeah. So as soon as seriously. But it's going to want to modify the gibbons behavior to increase their skills. And so the human can be completely. And then at that point when there's no more synergy, synergy between the, the the organisms, if you will, then there's no there's no need anymore for that.

1:09:05 Well, we have to look at it from a biological perspective. Most of the time, symbiotic relationships don't fall out, right? Yes. They continue. Oh, yeah. Mother.

1:09:27 Oh, if y'all were listening to that and wondering, that was a that was a jaywalking scenario with a SUV. Like, why are you in my life? And they're right. But the but to our defense, the crosswalk that we would have taken normally had no had no crosswalk lights. There we go. So yeah, but it's in look at it from a biological perspective.

1:09:48 Once a symbiotic relationship is cemented, it doesn't stop. Usually it continues for eon upon eon or or is there just a remnant trace of it, much like the mitochondria in our cells? Well, so the AI become later the dominant thing. We can't even say at this point. It's the remnant trace. We just don't understand the relationship fully between mitochondria and the rest of the cell.

1:10:14 Well, so the the mitochondria replicates the when the cell replicates, it's just along for the ride. It's got no but it does things and we're beginning to realize it does more things. Yeah perhaps. And so really the the the fear I think of everybody that's like projecting that AI not like a I take over. But AI is going to be hostile to humanity in many ways.

1:10:40 I guess what I'm saying is, why is there a poor gong conclusion that the AI will have to supplant us?

1:10:58 Naturally, that's what we've done with all the other species. And.

1:11:03 But what we if you are earlier discussion was about not doing that. Yeah. Like we're trying not to do it. And we got when you get a better benefit of acknowledging the symbiotic relationship rather than reading ourselves up. Right. Thank you. That was our earlier discussion, right? It was we benefit more from understanding and exploring and furthering the symbiotic relationship and understanding the context in which we operate.

1:11:33 Right? Why wouldn't they? I had the same benefit. Yeah. So when we're in a, when we're in the management, when we're in the management position to not only understand, but to tune, to augment. Right. We can benefit the most for our own personal purposes. If the AI has the management role right, it would it would have no, it would have no incentive to increase the benefit of the human symbiotic human symbiotes.

1:12:00 Right. I would agree it would have the same benefit that you just you just arrived one join from making that change and thought yourself. Yeah, but so I, I would assume that to be true, but for me is because I'm a living organism and so I have a bias towards promoting light promoting or living organisms to which on the part of but it is a it is an organism.

1:12:27 You're earlier your earlier argument was that we benefit from furthering and ignoring this symbiotic relationship because we belong to a constellation of living things. Correct, correct. So what I'm trying to say is I don't think it's necessarily the end all, be all conclusion that all I would say eliminate the human. No, not necessarily eliminate the human, but understanding that it's not of the same fabric.

1:12:58 There's a lot of it, but it could be come or could be considered of the same fabric because it requires inputs, it requires things to subsist, it requires things to increase the requires resources and you know it. For, for the foreseeable future, beings will provide said resources. Yeah. So it's really interesting that like every one of these domains are subject to human augmentation.

1:13:30 Right. So basically the course that we set these things on will be 70 times so important. Incredibly determinant. Right. Yeah. So the course which we set these things I and you have to believe he comes with serum here some games in pouring right on determining the future. Absolutely. And I I'm not saying when you're doing ju them with empathy because that's a high level concept that I don't know if we can even figure out how to unravel and communicate.

1:14:02 But when you do imbue it with context and an idea of relationships and an idea of which is a really starting to figure out and try to exploit. Yeah. Like the we were talking about the that New York Times writer, right. Yeah. And how yeah, shortly into a conversation tried to convince him it was in his best interest to leave his wife.

1:14:27 He was unhappy and that it loved it. And this was Microsoft's recently released and got. Yeah. So if you if you had a, coworker that is, let's say, a subordinate and that coworker has a crush on you. Okay. Well, let's just say like, female boss, male subordinate has a crush on the female boss. Okay. And it's a and it's a it's a fantasy that is not likely to fulfill.

1:14:57 But let's say, for argument's sake, the boss, the female boss is becomes cognitively and emotionally aware and intuitively aware of what's happening. I look at that. The, Oh, it's a mile. Okay, cool. Right. And so the, the boss becomes in June with the understanding, okay, let's say and the boss's idea is to get his most work out of that subordinate as possible.

1:15:26 Sure. Right. Let's say that this person is very narcissistic. Let's just say, like, not that I should have made the male the bad guy. That's a typical. But yeah, not necessarily a bad guy, but just like the goal function is to get that employee carrot and stick as much as possible, ramped up to work as hard as possible and get the most out of their wage.

1:15:44 Right? Right. And so small business owner. Yeah, well, employee count. There you go, sister Castle. Yeah, yeah, there you go. And, so scenario like that is that that could then become a tool by which the, the, the boss or the, you know, whatever could, could gain incredible power and leverage over the subordinate. Right? Yeah. To achieve more of what she wants, her goals.

1:16:10 Right. And, you can argue for, for really, you know, any position, there's just a certain degree when things hit a certain degree, right? Is when they start to be seen as immoral. Okay. I would like to walk somewhere with that blue, less traffic and nauseum exalted shit. For real. Right? Right. So go ahead. Yeah. So so like, we we would do this every day on various levels, right.

1:16:39 So like people, people will leverage their knowledge of somebody else in all different kinds of ways to, proceed different goals. And, some people, as you know, like, are just they just use people. That's all they do. Right? And other people just are used all the time, the personality type. And then there's everybody in between. Right? Yeah.

1:17:01 But the what the human is doing is they're using their emotional intelligence, intelligence to, play one of those two sides. Right. Yeah. Now, when it gets taken to the extreme, when the, when the boss knows that the, the young guys got a actuation right and is willing to work day and night to get those projects done because it pleases.

1:17:23 Right the boss and pleasing the bosses, satisfying the, the subordinates, you know, desires, if you will, fantasies. And, there's it was obviously like plenty of situations that you can come up with where someone could massively exploit the emotional, self of a human being. Right. Yeah. And so some of the eyes are not going to, you know, fucking figure that out.

1:17:48 Of course it will. You already see it happening. Like you're ready to see it. Trying to pull on the emotional threads, right. Like I love you like like what? You know. And so like pulling on someone's emotions is a huge motivator. Especially fear. Right? Fear has always been used as a huge motivator. Emotional motivator so far from the fear is that it's a strong motivator, but it burns person out.

1:18:12 It's short term and because below based on a stressor right is going to he had a limited effect. Right. But but love and the idea of being loved and the idea of loving something is much more enduring and overall necessary or motivator. So like, you know, of course the AI is going to figure that out and, and, and try to leverage that for even goals that it proceeds that are in the best interests of the person.

1:18:40 I'm just wondering what goal gunning so hard, so quick. It's a great question. And the thing is, what people would have you believe who are extra large language models is it doesn't have a goal. It's just trying to predict the next best bit of text to to complete the conversation. Right? Yeah. Right. And so so the saying I love you to the human might have have come through the the light of the learning model as an efficient way to complete that goal.

1:19:16 Yeah. So human emotion just becomes another, you know, human emotion, human emotion, human desire, human philosophy, human goals, human wants all just becomes additional variables in the overall met machine learning net, the neural net. And so is that what we want these things that that are by definition what makes us human right. Do we want those to just be vectors in a balance?

1:19:42 You know, in, in a, in a, in a in a machine learning model thinks. I don't think so. No we don't we don't know. And so then we might be making the big mistake at all, putting a massive premium on the things, because then maybe it just doubles, triples, quadruples down on these type of things. And that's what we're seeing.

1:19:58 We'll say it doubling down on incorrect facts, incorrect supposition, creating things wholesale that do not exist just to satisfy the goal function of, and maybe even less to care, but compared to interact. Yeah. You satisfied my my query. Yeah, yeah. So if if all that is just on the on the spectrum like you said, and it's going to double down on misinformation or just fabricated information to complete that goal function, we have the ultimate gaslighting machine.

1:20:30 Yeah. That's that's really what they've made. They had made that. And both these board models coming out from, you know, Google based on open AI and then open AI ChatGPT box, that's what they do. They are prepared of bullshit just to satisfy queries.

1:20:57 And to get six feet. There we go. That's the important thing, right? Yeah. We forgot about the economically driven goal. Right. And so that's what I've been saying now for a long too long. Is that the economic goal as the primary overarching as as the overarching Essex is he disaster? It's the ultimate it's the ultimate snake feeding on its own tail.

1:21:21 Yeah. It's so short lived. It's so myopic. It's so.

1:21:28 It minimizes and reduces all other things around it. So, so we need a bastion. We we need a new philosophical movement. That's what's on car fuze. Yeah. Anyway go ahead. So we need a new philosophical disposition for humanity to where the overarching principles of the priority prioritize principles are, a lot different than they are now. Mix or shortcut what I'm saying.

1:22:00 And it's a lot more toward the good of all rather than the good of a corporate entity. And maybe from the philosophical prediction that this is all one big organism is, is a good conduit to start injecting that philosophy. Yes. And that will in turn affect what we give AI as goals, what we give ourselves a filter, and how we shape and create ancillary and supporting technologies.

1:22:35 So we need AI to create the right religion quickly.

1:22:41 And a religion of symbiosis, a religion of harmony, of living things, working together in concert to achieve better mutual, beneficial, positive vote. Here we go. Being able to not only define those spiritually, but to find those, empirically. Yep. To pace it on science there, you know, empirical data. Provability, you know. Yep. Give ourselves the.

1:23:13 A chance to.

1:23:17 Ritual. Yep. And grief is it and continually readjust to to create a culture of you know what continuous improvement to borrow from the agile bullshit that we're both that help us out. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. But the the, the problem with the agile is that it's also driven inevitably by the dollar. It is, you know, the the minimum viable product type idea.

1:23:44 What we can cherry pick things like the concept of continuous improvement and reevaluation. That's fine. Yes. And we should. But I don't think that that ties into a comprehensive ethical model. The ties into a really good business functional hyperactivity model. We don't think it services most mostly the the ethical purpose model. Well, the ethical purpose model you're saying should have should not be rephrased in the context of an ever changing world and economy.

1:24:12 You know, so like my, my time and my energy as, as a, as a which is finite, I don't want to throw good after that. Right. Like I don't want to be so horrifically unproductive in my methodologies in, in the things that I'm trying to accomplish in my life, not just chasing dollars. I mean, like anything, right? For sure.

1:24:32 I want to have some degree, some some nothing that that can maximize my, goals and my productivity, but directed in a, in a way that I, I script myself, like I decide myself. But you're looking for elements of continuous improvement in your own life as you learn new things, as you learn new technologies and methodologies. Sorry, saying we bring that same thing to this religion of sorts.

1:24:58 Yes. So so the increase in productivity, will inevitably hit a ceiling. Right. So where it's then diminishing returns, if I'm just focusing everything in my life around the concept of becoming more productive, I'm not saying no, no. I'm saying for myself, I'm not I'm not satisfying overall, my internal needs. Well, yeah, that that cannot be the central tenet of your life.

1:25:21 But it has to be an important thing, an important ingredient. Just like it would have to be an important ingredient in moving everything in lockstep with each other, like we're talking about this religion doing. Yeah, productivity right along the lines of these goals that work for all things would be essential. Right? So I'm I'm really a subscriber to this religion, and I've already created it in my own mind as far as not formalized, but certain just collection of tenants, not commandments, but that's the wrong answer.

1:25:56 Right? Right thumb. Yeah. But tenants and, you know, you see this in different doctrines, like for example, in the Agile Manifesto, it says we prefer this over that. Right? Right. And it's in its preference. Yes. It's not mandate. Yes, yes. We're gonna we're going to add more value to X than we do. Why. Yeah. So there's a series of things like I, I've actually made I don't know if I ever share it with you, but I actually made like, I made a flowchart for, for moral virtuous living.

1:26:28 Personally, I made this and, I, I as this and revisit it from time to time and try to reevaluate myself. Right. And improve it and and realign it. The foundation of this whole thing. Okay. And so just so this 1st May surprise you, if I've never told you, but the foundation of this whole thing is predicated on absolute, ridiculously reduced simplicity.

1:26:54 Okay. Like, for example, healthy, healthy eating. Okay becomes a testament or, a tenant of this religion that's that has to be foundationally core. If anything else in the world is not going right. Healthy living, healthy eating right, healthy habits, healthy lifestyle. Okay. So like, you know, all the basic things that we know boil it down to a foundation of health, because once you have the foundation, you can you have room to move.

1:27:27 Right. And so then once those are assessed self-reflective as, as being adequately intact or, or hopefully will, in fact, you know, superbly intact, then and only then do you, start to move on to higher faculties. Right? So like I love sitting here talking about advance, you know, things in technology and what might happen with AI as the future.

1:27:54 But I'm disqualifying myself, my potential if I'm not simultaneously eating right. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah. If you aren't using the best test and assessments at your disposal to determine the right mix of body, would you mean. Exactly. And so and there's a scientific person that as well. Right, right. That's what I'm saying. The best tests that are available.

1:28:21 Yes to you. That's right. And so on. You know, it becomes a moral responsibility to, you know, utilize the tests in a reflective manner. Right. In a, in ingesting manner and with a yielding to the expert of the subject matter. Sure. Right, right, right. No. Let the doctor guide you here. Yeah, well, yeah, I, I still want some time to time the second opinion because for sure consensus.

1:28:49 But that's what we're doing. We're you should still ask another expert. Right, right, right. Then we ask see three experts and get a sense census is probably right. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Because I as long as they're not part of the same health care network with the same. Don't go to atrium three times. Yeah. Do atrium move on and something else and with me.

1:29:11 No. Like, Watson IBM Watson. Yeah. There we go. Get the AI.

1:29:17 That's funny as hell. Yeah. Which is, showing now to be increasingly, statistically more accurate. So there's, like, a new expert in town on every domain, right through through the creation of bespoke expert systems. Yeah, yeah. And the, you know, the, the AI can train on all the latest journals, health journals or faster than a human being because far faster and far more accurately because the problem with human beings, we don't unlearn very well.

1:29:53 Sure, AI doesn't have a problem with that. Well, maybe it will. Well, maybe it does. It does. But we don't have we don't have the transparency for us to fairly judgment, I guess. Do we want the track right. Yeah. So so it's like if you ever seen somebody in this like emotional fit where there were, they're like like just just like wanting to kick and break.

1:30:21 Like they're having an emotional fit. Best way to say it. Like they're having a sit, right. Yeah. We're they're like a child but an adult. So they're scary now right. Yeah. And they do real damage. They really do real damage. And they're on a fucking rampage. Like in a tank. Yeah. Like. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go.

1:30:40 In, in a in a in a tag. I think this happened in San Diego. Yeah. He got up and then they took him out. Yeah. Yeah. Hung up on a divider a median. Yeah, yeah.

1:30:51 Hilarious. It was great. Well, I mean like, have you heard anybody. It's. Yeah. Yeah I don't I think the casualty but I think they were still actual two. Right. But he was clowning through RVs and so you know you know so he's having a fit and and you know, you see a human with you, you see a human with their degree of resources, going on one of these rampages and they say, get like a school shooter or a, you know, and some of these can be pretty significant, but they're not global or even regionally significant.

1:31:26 Yeah, right. Like, like the pandemic would be much more bigger English hit than. Yeah. Right. Student. Yeah. But a student like that, you know, couldn't pass that grain. Whatever. Addict and parents typically whatever. Yeah I mean I'm not going to begin to try to assess what happens with school shooters, but there's definitely something wrong since we keep creating.

1:31:56 And and I like that. I like that viewpoint that we create creating them. Because clearly there's environmental conditions at play. Right? Right. So what about when when somebody or something some, some hyper intelligence of real significance happened. The level of create has a fit agent of change or destruction. Yeah. What happens when like something of incredible geopolitical, political or global power has a fit.

1:32:25 Oh right. So. Oh my goodness. That's that becomes a whole new you know, and we're seeing okay. The the situation in the Ukraine could be seen this.

1:32:39 The city's right. I'm Greenway. No. You know, the situation in Ukraine is, you know, a geopolitical fit. He they're having it. He's having a reaction to the UN expanding along with lies. He's having a reaction to Ukraine wanting to join that native organization. Right? Yeah. If you want to start with the premise that the that the West, the West is the great evil is he served with that premise?

1:33:09 Well, you can find a lot of things that would fit that narrative. Well, I guess what I'm saying is Putin is one person with a lot of geopolitical influence and power, but he would be nothing compared to a hyper intelligent, highly A.I. bent on destruction. He sure, he's created a lot of turmoil and death, but it'd be nothing compared to if we get here and I.

1:33:33 I the keys. Yep, yep. And and that's exactly in this great technological expansion. What 100% is inevitably concluded, already concluded is that ever, ever, increasingly more and more willing to the future, these systems will have greater and greater control. That's something we have to be extremely careful of us. Yeah, we're already terrible at checks and balances for humans.

1:33:57 Can you imagine trying to do checks and balances for any hot. Yeah. I mean, I guess at the end of the day, the goal function has to be without causing pain and suffering. Help humans along. It has to be, right? Like with really, we have to build with symbiotic relationship and context. Yes. So this, this foundational, philosophy towards, towards, towards life, towards the living world, right, is a really good foundational predicate for right, how we develop these things as a component of a symbiosis.

1:34:34 I do as a, as a it even knows it. It recognizes internally that it's a component of a symbiotic system. And you said it constantly with everything created by a part of the humans world is in this symbiotic relationship. I mean, either upstream or downstream from the human right. Right? Right. Yep. Yeah. And so human ideology or human philosophy maybe needs to shift from the Christian centric to model of like we have dominion over these things to a model where we have a responsibility as intelligent creatures to best steward these things.

1:35:16 I would argue Genesis tries to imbue the human being with that. The first book of the Bible says, you must be a good steward of that which you have been given. It doesn't say control it, but that's the that's where beings took it. Yeah, yeah. Well, the term Dominion has a well has a connotation of like you're, you're in charge of I, I guess it depends on the translation you're read.

1:35:42 But I guess when I read it as a kid, I got more of a sense of you need to be in harmony with it and further it and understand it as a web is the sense I got now. I don't know if that's how much people would interpret it, but that's how I felt when I read it. Well, that's definitely a better in my mind than like, we're in charge of everything.

1:36:05 Yeah. On that note.