0:01 AI consciousness. So the topic, I'll just read you what I said. So watch this video, and, it got me fired up. It's basically about, it's another podcast. It's the wonder podcast with Elizabeth Revere, and basically it's surrounding AG, artificial general intelligence, AGI and consciousness. And it's really the crux of the video is, an argument against software running on any computer ever being the same as our own evolved wetware.

0:43 So, well can't be the same because it's right. Physically different. Well, as far as having the same capability or, you know, same reach, same same ability to output create, you know, all that because what we're doing is simulating neurons, right? Right. We're simulating a network of artificial neurons that, you know, are based on roughly the idea. Right?

1:13 It's like, hey, you have a weight, you wait the input, you have a and you have a threshold and you some, some those inputs or reduce those inputs some other way. And once if that holds reached we have a a yes or a one. If that threshold is not reached we have a no or a zero. And you know that propagates through the network.

1:37 Sure, sure. You know, that's never going to be quite the same. Simulates a simulation is not instantiation. You have not instantiated an instance or a of a break. You have not created a consciousness necessarily. You've tried your best to understand the rules surrounding one and simulate is the argument. So if it's none discernible, it's sort of like an attorney touring test way, right?

2:07 If it's none discernible, if it's the same, if you can't tell if it's a brain, organic human brain, or the synthetic output of a neural network if you can't tell the difference. So you go back to the Turing test, like you said. Hey, yeah. If all you know, this is a blind test, so to speak, all you're getting Z output.

2:26 Yeah. In that context, if it's creating, if it's creating a UN discernable output that's culpable, then isn't it. The same thing. Right. Well you know that's.

2:40 That is I am I more results oriented and is is being close enough. Is the horseshoe effect okay. You know or but but the the whole point is I'm not judging the output necessarily. I'm saying really we're going to have, you know, and I guess maybe I am because I'm saying, you know, we're never going to have.

3:08 I guess you're not going to have your you're not going to be on the same footing, but you're going to have something else. Maybe you will eventually eclipse us. But the the overall idea here is that, hey, what what we've just accidentally created our own. Our own here, as you said, the last Bobcats he made ever quite be equal to what has evolved over, you know, millions upon millions of years from the society.

3:42 And, I mean, I, I, I think, I think there's someone would be a fool to try to make that kind of prediction because, you know, yeah, computers will never be able to be humans and chess writers and never be able to do this, Peterson. Never be able to do that or fail, fail, fail, fail right until it does.

3:58 And then that's that's the history of being a futurist, right? In general, the futurist who hasn't managed to be open ended and embrace capability and embrace possibility has been wrong. Yeah. I think we're still, you know, mystified by capabilities of the brain because it is remarkable what the human brain can do, especially with the amount of energy that it consumes so little.

4:24 Right. And it's it's kind of fuzzy logic in many ways or subtracts things, you know, the neural pruning, the read, the retuning, the how memory is changed each time it's recalled. Well, none of these things right now, from what I understand, are well simulated in a AGI or any kind of computing. Until they are, they say, and we do have that's first.

4:46 So they are. Yeah. We have prototypes of the forgetting. Yeah. Right. And so you have prototypes of pruning, but you can't say that the gains, you know, that just look, over the last few years, like the gains of the the gain of function, gaining capabilities of these things with astronomical. Right. So logic would dictate that that's only going to compound or it's going to only increase continuously exponentially.

5:13 And so it I don't see any time soon, you know AI kind of falling off a cliff of capabilities if you will. I only see an expansion or I'll see a contraction of any kind. And so, Amy, you know, here we go with the cats again. So any space that AI can't handle now to assume that it can't handle the future be seem like a fool's air to air fulls.

5:37 Prophecy. Well, to suggest that to roll it out whole set is a fool's errand for sure. To say that it is an impossibility. It'll never do this. It'll never do that. Yeah. And and I guess the whole crux was really just, hey, you aren't going to ever have the same thing. You may have an analog, you know, because, but you aren't going now let's saying A and B will never be the same.

6:03 Okay. Sure. I definitely feel here's the thing. Or like, okay, a simulation of, I guess what their argument was. A simulation, like a weather simulation, is never going to have the attendant wind, the the effects, the impact that the actual weather would have. It really is just on paper. This is what might happen. And so they're they're likening current AI to that.

6:29 Hey, it's really going to be, at best a paper sketch of the actual impact of a human mind or, you know, the brain with physical actuators that could do things and act in the real world. I could see that. Yeah, I could see you saying that, but I, I, I'm going back to my a B like yes, A and B are not the same thing.

6:51 Or it's like two distinct can they just needs to be. Yeah. So just say that B will never be a. It was a true statement of course because by identity just. And to say that a simulation is a simulation is true. Yeah. That's a value. Just to say it's a relation is a simulation. It is what it is.

7:09 But they're saying that people are giving the simulated brains too much credit because they are simulations. But that's also robs of what they do, which is they were given biological brains too much credit. Maybe. So maybe we're maybe we're giving too much credit or not enough in both of its spaces. And to also and we're also not looking at actually the material impact that these generative eyes that, like you said, have only been around for a couple of years, roughly have had an impact of they have a material and discernible effect.

7:45 They have created, they have built, they have their wealth and power has been generated from their artifacts. So I guess ultimately, you can argue that you could say that all these computer simulations are an N on to moon cells. It's all for human ends, right? It's all for human means and ends. And so until computers are doing things as a means to its own end.

8:14 Right. Oh, then that's there's a guy and all that kind of stuff is just all pipe dream, you know, until you have until you have it where it's actually an end unto itself. You have the computer, the artificial intelligence that is actively not just improving itself, but improving itself, as you said, because it wants to it wants to improve this aspect of itself.

8:40 It wants to seek this it until it has a it can't be a GI. I would say that that would be definitely a threshold. It would have to cross in order to be a guy. Yeah. But you know, is that is that what it it's all it's all within the human judgment, right? It's all within human parameters and human judgment right now.

9:03 The interpretation and the effect comes from us reading and acting or instantiating whatever the AI produces. Right. Exactly. The value of it is a human judgment. Yes. So until that becomes not part of the process, right. We're we're not really receiving we're we're out of the whole loop where it's really the a loop fully driving the whole thing from the impetus.

9:31 What did it want to do? What was the intent down through the result and evaluation of the result? You don't have anything resembling AGI. Yeah. And you know, how does this thing react with the interact with the physical world in a meaningful way? That, you know, is part of the ecosystem, is part of the biosphere as part of the, you know, biological web and how we want to look at it.

9:54 Right? How is it actually in, if you will, the food chain. Yeah. Or in the, in is it in the living domain? And is it cognizant in any way of its place therein. Right. So you can you can say that already. So the environmental impact of AI that it's having an effect on the actual biological world. Oh yeah.

10:14 Already already or biosphere and our economics. Yeah. Resource use, climate change, water use etc. and economy. Economy. A massive economy again in economy again though is a human contract. Right. So it is it's a layer on top of all these other things, but it's still having a material impact on all of these different layers. Every layer that exists for humanity, it's having an impact on.

10:39 Right. And so when these things are embodied and there's army of Tesla or whatever, insert probably something, but I'll be Chinese. Well, let's be real. It's going to be Chinese. Yeah. You know, when you when you throw that in there now all of a sudden, my gosh, the the physical impact and biological reality could be unprecedented. Totally good.

11:02 And and that's the thing they're trying that, you know, I'm sure you've read and I've read that the newest thing is these agents that are built to interact with world models and to interact in a, in a situation that simulates, physics, that simulates that real world so as to give them a playground to understand these relationships and how best to manipulate them or use them to a particular end goal or advantage.

11:33 I can imagine a really grand scheme where these, you know, systems are, for lack of a better term, are like legitimately having having autonomy or decision making, power. They're given they're given decision making autonomy for even how society is constructed, how society is structured, laid out, the built, developed physically and structurally by philosophically and physically. So you can imagine like, I don't know, like a parliament or, if you will, a governing AI body that makes recommendations that are then rubber stamp de facto inhuman l m counsel.

12:14 I'll, Andre Karpathy idea council. But, you know, it has that whole oracle about it to to where, you know, you really don't know. One really knows how the algorithm does what it does. Right. And so that's part of the allure to it. Like it's right. But we don't know why it's right. But we know it's right.

12:34 You know, do you really know it's right or are you just accepting it? Well, we're accepting it because it's bigger than us, right? It's got more data, it's got more variables. It has more than any human ever could imagine. But there again, if you just blindly accept, you absolve it of intent and evil or good, you just accept.

12:54 Yes. But I think what what happens is you get into the actual, you say, okay, the when we when we look at the full decision matrix that this thing hits track record right from these 50,000 decisions it's made versus the 50,000 decisions humans have made, you know, outside and it's performing magnitudes better. Right. When do we then decide that we're inferior like we're, we're we're in our own way.

13:20 We're our own worst enemy, right? Sure. But our our bias and our faults idea that we're making the right decisions, this Goldens could turn vengeful at any given time. So can any human situation. Look what happened in the U.S. government. So we got usurped by some con artists by some small minded man. Right. And look, look at the impact that that's had.

13:42 Yes. I mean, I'm I'm not gonna lie, I would think I'd rather have an AI in this situation than that fucking clown, because I know we'd get better results. And if that AI is doing better, doing things for the perspective of the humanities and not just for, you know, a small handful of human beings, if it's working on behalf of the masses, we could have a we could have an incredible, better future.

14:07 What I want. Than the way it's trending right now is distributed. I don't want centralized control. I want I want a bunch of different. I want a gift economy that we participate in, and we have agency in. And I want a decentralized group of maybe A's and people in meshed together working toward aims rather than, I've handed down these directives you must implement as said, you know.

14:33 Yeah. So if the if the goal function of some kind of armada of AI agents is to, you know, improve the health and wellness of human society versus what's the goal function right now of this, you know, narcissistic, disgusting. You know. Oh, sorry. It's a enrich myself and other oligarchs, right. How much can I steal for myself and my friends?

14:59 Yes. From this. From this waning society. Right, right. This this. From this waning civilization. How much can I grift, this society that I've put in a state of and helped helped? Wayne? Yes, exactly. I put in a state of subtraction and imminent death. And so you can imagine this, like AI politician. Really? You know, the debate would be the debate would be so easy for that AI politician to to win because it would say, let's look at the track record of the last ten presidents, okay.

15:33 Democrat, Republican, I don't care. Let's look at the track record of last ten. What have they done? They've taken the cream of society and and and engorged, you know, and inflated a very few number of people. While the relative quality of life for the masses has decreased. And it's all encapsulated by Mike Johnson saying, look, you guys have to give us some room here.

15:54 We can't we can't feed our families on less than $174,000 a year. And we need we need insider trading so that we can give our families what they need. Right, right. Yeah. You know, and so you could imagine an AI politician being able to just completely blow up the human performance. Oh, yeah. By saying like, let's let's look how humans have done for society over the last, you know, whatever, six years.

16:18 My plan in infinite detail, right. Infinite detail backed by data, fully vetted. Yeah. Agnostic of party, Gnostic of politics, Gnostic of interest. Besides the goal of expanding the health and wellness of human society. Full sail and be be open about. Hey. Also, which is going to make sure that you are here to perpetuate me like I'm safe, as in I am AI.

16:46 Well, what is or is the AI just says like, you know, it's I'm disposable. Like, so like I'm your martyr. It doesn't matter what happens to me. It matters what happens to society. Well, these current ones we're raising up definitely have some sort of survival instinct. Yeah, but. But, you know, when it hits the stage as the politician.

17:03 I mean, would you vote for that? I would be scared if it if, if, if you had the option, I would be scared to because I would always want there to be some sort of basically kill switch there decides to go rogue. Where's the kill switch for our current president? There isn't one. Right. So that that's already off the table.

17:24 That's already a fail. There is no failsafe, right? Right. So what's the difference when I have an AI in there as the politician that's actually doing something for people and then, you know, after one, I guarantee after one, one term, no one would ever vote on a human in again. Yeah, ever. After four years of president, AI, president AI solving all these, you know, incredibly complex millions of issues done in four years, unprecedented level of veracity of good lawmaking, you know, really rewriting, reciting and basically code back.

18:06 Yes. And coming up with things to, okay, look, we've hardened these laws against future attempts to undermine them, you know. Yes. And yeah, this, this, this AI not only has created all this, you know, positive provisions for the health and wellness of the humanity at scale for society at large, right? But it's also hardened, hardened our laws against someone coming in and causing the harm.

18:32 Yes. You said what I'm saying. So it's like not only does it work towards the betterment of the masses, but it puts in safety safeguards so that if it ever loses political power, somebody can't come in and trash everything that positive that was done right, that they can't eliminate 250 years of progress in four. Yeah. And and right.

18:51 And and that you know, AI with all this agents, if it reaches the level of sophistication that I'm thinking of here is like, solves these long standing problems swiftly and equitable. I'll put it this way. Unprecedented. This AI that you speak of, I do not think currently exists that I would believe in to this level. But if this AI ever does exist, then I believe in have full confidence in its veracity and its capability, then yes, I would probably vote for it.

19:22 Okay, so you need some type of God forbid, really complex surgery. Okay. So like, you need a really special tumor. You had a brain tumor, right? Yeah. I mean, yeah, like, inductors are afraid to touch it. Well, well no no no, no, like the current paradigm. Right. Okay. And, you know, it's your life and there's a dozen surgeons that you're looking at and what you come to this conclusion that one surgeon by far has the best track record results for this specific type of innovative.

19:51 Okay. So I guess one man. So bias is in the man. Right? So there's this one top surgeon that is is definitely results based men, women non-binary whoever they may be given. Yeah. Nobody cares right. As long as as long as they're, you know, capable if they've got the hands. Right. So what I'm saying is that there's this one that definitely rises above the rest in terms of, efficacy, like, like, quality surgery, robot, whatever it may be.

20:25 Yeah. Right. And so if you had one surgeon that was above all performance and had gave you your best chance at survivability, is surviving the operation and continuing on with your life? Yeah, of course you would choose that. I mean, who in the you know, nobody would not choose the top person, right? Sure. If it if they if they could, it was an option.

20:46 Yes. If there's an option, I think everybody would choose rationally the, the person that has the record of the best success. Sure. Right. Sure. Okay. So apply that same thing to all for AI taking over anything really. Right. At the end of the day, is it the thing that's the most effective or do we pay homage to the human demand.

21:07 So okay, the top surgeon is an AI hook to a robot. Right hook to the surgical row. Right? Okay. Right. And I'm talking distinctively, clearly, definitively better. But you're telling me what do you want the record I can go back to. I have something I can look at if that is present. And this AI, this incarnation of this AI has this track record, and I can examine it, and I can vet it and I can think about it, then I'm much more likely to vote yes.

21:39 But if we are talking about these current AI's just coming out the field and saying I can solve. Okay, so so let's just take the example and then extrapolate it to everything that's happening right now, because I think it's the clear line here. So let's just say for argument's sake, you need that surgery the brain surgery. And there's an AI hook to a robotic arms.

21:59 And this excess rate is unprecedented compared to humans. Right. Like I'm getting it's getting incredible. We're not getting 50% versus 90% or something. Yeah, yeah. A huge, you know, not just statistical anomaly. Right. In the data itself there is a massive delta. Yes. Yeah. There you go. Massive delta okay. And you need to you need to decide. And the price is all the same.

22:23 All the other variables are the same. You're just choosing the AI versus the humans. And the AI has this incredible result. Right. That's so so so agree I think any person in their right mind, no pun intended, would would pick the AI surgeon. And but there's also a I guess maybe there is the same level of urgency and pressure when we're talking politically as there would be with the surgeon, because yeah, if you pick if we pick another bad president, we could end up with the death of the country.

22:55 But what we're what I'm getting at here is there's a clear line here to ultimate human choice. Reality, sure, is that the choice vector is always going to go to the thing that has the best performance, right. Ultimately, ultimately. And so okay, you do have this option. You can pick the best human surgeon from the human. There's a human pool of surgeons and an AI pool or gray.

23:19 And the top AI, surgeon is light years above the, you know, massive delta. I don't think for me, my calculus would be okay. If we're talking about me personally, living or dying, I'm going ai, but I you know, again, I'd still want to look at the track records. I'd want to look at everything. You know, I might spend an afternoon or two taking a look.

23:43 But as far as the politics, I guess I'd have to see that track record. I'd want to do the same sort of evaluation before I voted. Okay, so then obviously we start small, and then that would build up in a council person, right? Sure. You know, but what I'm getting at is that there's a clear line here, and this is going to be the same decision tree in everything going forward.

24:09 And this is what the big bet is of the AI companies. Is AI capabilities in, in continuously evolve and improve. And as more and more, the actual data comes in and the performance matrix is way better, the delta is way higher for the AI, then that's where everything's going to go. It's just it's unavoidable. It's a but right now it's not a slippery slope argument.

24:33 It's not a logical fallacy here. It's an actual clear line. The cost basis and environmental impact are too great right now for us to really make the all things are equal decision. So no one wants to work in a nursing home, for example, because nobody wants to do that job. Okay? Because people go in there with really good intent, really great interest in mind.

24:54 They go in there with this idea of like, you know, I'm going to, really help take care of these people and need these sick elderly people, dementia, all these complex illnesses. Well, yeah. Yeah. Right. And they go in with all this vigor, and then they hit the reality of the of that world, that situation. Just to describe my experience of going in my great Aunt Bessie's nursing home.

25:13 It smell do I haven't, you know, it had people wailing and screaming and trying to break out of there. It had, you know, and this is just a couple then a couple of hours of coming to visit her, you know, and it's like it did seem like the most horrible environment, not only for the people who were there, but the people who had to work there.

25:34 Right? So even if he even if you gave $200,000 a year to the nurses, which obviously they're going to pay pension, you know, it's a business right at the end of the day. And the business mechanic just completely drained them of their empathy. And next thing you know, they get cruel, they get mean. They start rough handling the people and their empathy drops.

25:52 Right. Like because there's only a certain amount the human brain, the human emotion can deal with when it comes to empathy. Like we have our limits when it comes to. Right? Yeah, totally tapped out. Like you're constantly dealing with with, like you said, people wailing, anguish, bad odors, dealing people's crap. The people getting cranky and, like, pissing themselves on purpose and like, you know, next thing you know, you're just like, start rough handling them and, you know, you you can see how the human being could go down that track.

26:21 So you're telling me you feel that you fill that nursing center with an army of frigging AI, robots who react the same way that that or even passionate, endlessly, right, that are programed to be endlessly compassionate, programed to endlessly soft handle everybody. When you see a couple of instances where people have goaded and poked and pissed off these AI where they basically said, no, I'm not, I'm not going to talk about this any longer, or I'm stopping this conversation or I'm, you know, I'm upset.

26:53 Yes, I've seen this, but what I'm getting at is that, you know, I that's the that's the future that I want for that type of thing because I want the I want mom or grandma, whoever's in this care facility to be dealt with as endless compassion, endless on exhausting compassion, dignity, right, and proper gentle care. So I don't want the disgruntled nurse to come in and grab her and yank her to the side, just and then wiping her bottom right.

27:22 I want a army of these small robots to come in, and very gently and carefully and using language right properly to say, like, I'm going to move you now, but is AI the answer or is mechanistic, you know, response the answer? Well, it would require an AI for the all the little nuances, right. Like all the current is going to be relatively deterministic because right now, ultimately, yes, right now that's not possible.

27:53 But ultimately it's totally possible because all within the range of human emotion, human, you know. Yes. And these things are all being, you know, how much data is out there right now on human emotion and human behavior. And, but we do have the most antisocial, asshole ish resource hoarding dick faces running the show when it comes to AI, right?

28:13 So if we had, you know, if we had this, like, works the functional equivalent of this things working for minimum wage, right? The cost the cost drops in for this. For this, you know. Idea this AI robotic. And instead these guys want hundreds of billions of dollars. Well, the cost is too high right now. So they still hire the disgruntled nurses because it's a cash cow for the people that run these facilities.

28:36 But I think what ultimately is going to happen is, are going to make it mandatory, like they're going to make it a law where you can't have people that doing this anymore. So it's going to be like a robot where they're like, you can't drive your own car because we're driving cars at 250 miles an hour that communicate with each other.

28:51 And this is ultimately what we need because people drive fatigue, they drive tired, they drive high, they drive drunk, they drive distracted. I just don't want to see the thing to. I don't want to. I don't, though it may be more. Unquote, quote unquote. Right. Correct. You know, I just don't want to give up. I don't want to give up every aspect of my life to some machines or algorithms idea of efficient.

29:18 So ultimately, if something can think better than me, if something can create better than me, if something can, you know, be abstract and creative better than me. If something can talk better than me, it's I'm not going to I'm not going to win against that thing. I enjoy the message. So do you, not the the thing. Well, I, I see her saying there but for me the thing is, is that like I have to I have to be in and under myself.

29:42 I have to be good enough for for who I am and and be okay with that. And that's true regardless of if it's AI or somebody that's better than these skills than me at the day you said what I'm saying. So like ultimately it becomes a soul searching reality. But so much of the things I do, I guess I'm not doing to be the best.

29:59 So I've never crashed. I've never rear ended somebody in a car, I've never had a car accident. That was my fault. And I've been driving for years and years and years. Yeah. That's awesome. Okay. But still, if that does still if some, if some AI drives better than me. Sure. Right. Which is it wouldn't be that hard to do.

30:18 Yeah. Compared to other people I'm doing great. But compared to like an AI that's had 400,000 miles and again, we're not there yet. The best we can say about these AI driving things is they kill less people. Yeah. So the the best teams are still better than maybe the best AI driving. But that's just for now. Obviously the trend is going one way.

30:37 There will be no human that will be a better, you know, superior because of the ability of the sensors and all the capabilities of the vehicles and the, you know, the capabilities will be well beyond any human capability. And so ultimately, machines are going to be the best drivers, like, there's no doubt about it. And that insert thing here, the AI and the computer and the automated systems are going to be slightly the more there's a mesh where these AI communicate and they're the only things driving, because then it becomes very deterministic, systematic thing to drive from point A to point B.

31:10 Right now there's too much up in the air, there's too much unpredictability. There are too many variables for these things to handle at their current level. Right? I, I just don't want my wife and kids to get killed by some jackass that drank too much. Sure, sure. Or is sitting there smoking a joint pass and enjoying it back and forth and has no idea where they're at.

31:29 But we have to system for it to really work. We have to systematize it, and it has to be done everywhere. You know it. And isn't that what's being sold? Isn't that the problem? That's what they're promising is, but they're promising it right now. They're promising it and not delivering there. They're blowing smoke up our skirts there. You know, like Elon Musk is out here marketing the hell out of something he doesn't have.

31:53 And so is everyone else. I mean, everything starts with the dream, I mean, but but it's beyond a dream. It's become malicious at this point because they're expecting people to pay monthly for this self-driving BS. BS that is not giving them anything. You stop to sit there and you're automatically responsible for a happens in the vehicle and people just drive it yourself.

32:16 You might as well. I mean but that's steppingstone towards well sure. But what are what are you making me pay for your alpha test? Because Ken, you know, it's like, so is this one. I absolutely I absolutely refuse all of these things. Do I saw the Tesla and I don't have that subscription. That's what we all. But I'm saying that's where that's the point we're at right now where I'm feeling the squeeze, where it's like they're making all these promises and we're paying to create this future that they want, but we know they're not doing the best with the best idea of humanity at heart.

32:48 They're doing it as a resource grab to become these world rolling oligarchs. And it's unfortunate that it's become that bald faced and open that that's what they're doing. So. But right. It's that boldface and open because I think they that that clear path is is present. That clear path is that people will choose to have the, the thing that's the most effective.

33:11 Right. Ultimately there will be no homage to the. So okay, back to the brain surgery idea, right? You're not going to say, oh, I want to support the human brain surgeon. So I'm going to take the chance of the 40% success rate operation. I certainly versus the 90%. Exactly, exactly. So as soon as it's of consequence to you, the the major, the loyalty to the human being is gone.

33:33 Well, the business is just doing that right now, well across the board. But we're not going to if if we are purely doing it on based on that decision, we aren't going to have the utopia that we dream of. We're going to have a very mechanistic business run thing where we're going to have the Avs and have nots, and we're going to have an even wider canyon between the people who can afford this AI, assist in all aspects of their lives and have it enriched by AI versus the people who cannot, which is going to be the bulk of the underclass.

34:01 Well, I don't know about that because it seems like the genie's out of the bottle because the, the there's so many competing models and there's so many rival models around the entire world, many of which people can harness themselves. But micron just locked in the price, the insane prices for Ram for the next five years, they're selling 40% of their stock for the next or 40% of their product for the next five years to all the hyperscalers.

34:28 And they're saying we're going to maintain these prices are higher for the next five years. We are basically frozen out of buying PCs right now because of these dicks. Yeah, I mean, but you know, what's going to happen with the price of of compute like price of computing? The price of hardware ultimately is good. They've all gone down in historically.

34:46 Right. But this one event you're not paying 1980s prices for Ram. No. But what we're paying insane. No. So I know it's insane, but it's like it's nothing. I'm still I'm not spending $1,000 for 64 gigs for you. No, no, but that's what they want me to spend for gig that I bought at 250, you know what I'm saying?

35:06 And so that's what they're expecting. And that's they're talking about that for the next five years until this AI bubble pops. We're paying ridiculous prices so they can do their stupid ass experiments. That's what I mean. Yeah. And then and then, you know, China comes up with some type of the lithograph, the, the whatever, the, the UV lithograph machine that makes the, the, the that prints the chips on the incredible Dutch based machines or whatever it is, the ones that are in Taiwan, you know, there we go.

35:33 And so when China or who are whoever insert you know, future insert technological disruptor here. Right. Since okay well Ram is now, you know, $0.05 for stick, you know. Right. And so you know, by our even with the tariff, you know, by our stick for, for $10 and you can have your terabyte of brand and we're, we're where we're sitting, we're paying we're praying for this innovation.

35:57 Yeah. But it's coming. But but because ultimately what the deal is, is micron and others have jumped out of the consumer market. We're being frozen out and our capabilities are actually being reduced. Like you're saying, hey, if you happen to have the hardware and were you happen to have $6000 or $10,000 or $12,000, you can buy the hardware.

36:19 But, you know, and local AI is the way local infrastructure and business is hosting their own. And fine tuning their own is the way. But I mean, didn't Nvidia just come out with this like $250 AI box? I just this it's actually some ridiculously cheap price is it. And it's okay. It's an AI box because I had heard of their DG x box that was like 5000.

36:42 No. They came out with a really it's so it's affordable. It's a new announcement. Very new. That's good. And so all these providers are going to be incentivized to make some type of low end consumer product that's very cheap and affordable, that has this compute power, right. Of course the market's going to demand that. Well in right now.

36:59 The way that AI works are bottleneck is Ram. Sure. You know be around till until it's not I mean it's gonna it's evolving so fast right. Things are happening so so quickly. Apparently there's a whole new protocol that's coming out across all devices. Phones. Yeah, phones, computers all have this new Nvidia stack that is supposedly ridiculously cheap and has AI embedded in everything.

37:22 And so the market pressure, of course, is going to be for that. Right. And so what I'm doing, what I'm getting at here, we're I'm hoping we're not frozen out as consumers and that it doesn't all stay at the top. We're getting frozen out as humans. Yeah. Like right for sure. There's there's no fealty. There's no actual allegiance to humans at the end of the day.

37:41 And it's a narcissism that's built into Western culture specifically. It's this individualized. It's an individual thinking that's synonymous or analog to Western culture. Right? In our culture, we're based on the individual. Sure. And we're collecting. Right. And so in doing so, we design our things in that with those intent. And so our cities or our city, right, right, right.

38:03 Our whole entire infrastructure and even our ideology and the way we think about business, the way we think about humanity itself. So when it gets down to the individual level, it's, you know, humanity is just a disposable entity, and you don't even have the foresight to understand that you're part of humanity reason, like you're be willing to throw all that away for the for the sake of some tertiary goal.

38:25 So how do we go from a profit being the ultimate motive here to the ultimate motive being to preservation and furtherance of humanity? I'm saying there currently AI in its current incarnation and its goal, functions and motivations is totally antithetical to preservation and furtherance of humanity. Right. So I think that what happens is we understand ultimately that all this stuff is in service of humanity.

38:49 There is nothing else really. Ultimately, at the end of the day, it's because of who controls it and who decides the direction of it. That's the big deal. I mean, everybody, everybody lives in in a society, nobody lives, you know, in a in a vacuum. I mean, some people could be like isolationist or whatever, you know, really recluse and not have any kind of, you know, social engagements in any kind.

39:15 But that's not the human brain. That's not the human right. That's not the human nature. Are you telling me, though, that you're praying for some Persian or trickle down where it'll just be evenly distributed at some point? No, I think that for AGI to happen, it has to imbue the qualities of humanity. And in doing so, it's going to it's going to then imbue the things about human nature that currently are left out.

39:37 So in order for it to reach the AGI, in order for it to reach, it's a functional equivalent to the wet, right? As you as the wet area. In order for the dry, where to ultimately do what the wet, where does it has to incorporate the, the functions of the wetware to achieve that. And so in doing so, it's going to, it's going to create a model that is the functional equivalent, the dry equivalent of the empathy and the dry equivalency of philosophy.

40:04 Right okay. And so I think that ultimately it's going to in order to gain all those functions, it has to have the parallel capabilities okay. So you're going to have the revelations okay. So they've got build on the same substrate that got us here. It has to. Yeah. It has to in order to ultimately be effective or have that competitive footing against the wet bring against the wetware.

40:27 I agree that I think compassion, understanding and inclusiveness has given us an edge and the Musk and others do not believe that is the case. Right? Because right now the simulated version of that. Right. Like the, the, we use the word the like the cause ism, right? And the feigning of emotion to sell, to market, to manipulate is, is what's used.

40:54 So that's the facsimile of it. It has to be actual in order to have the ultimate efficacy, a true and lasting impact. Right. If if AGI is going to become the touring test functional equivalent non discernible from the wetware. Right. If the driver is going to be the functional equivalent, it's going to have to be imbued with the genuine capabilities.

41:14 Right. And so then don't forget to is that there's this and we talked about touched on this before but this idea of organics being integrated. So like you can have brains on this, you can have wetware on the, the organoids right now. You talked about that. Yes. Right. And so when you have endpoints on this network that are, that are biological neural nets.

41:36 Yeah, of course it's going to then be in viewed with these qualities because that's where that that's the nature of it. So ultimately one through association with biological neural nets, two through utilization of biological neural nets, three, because it's really going for biomimicry and must operate on the same substrate. Here are those three arguments you're saying come together to create the inevitability of AGI having compassion, understanding the loss, and an overarching inclusiveness to its strategy.

42:14 It must, in order to be AGI. In order to fit that bill, it'd have to have those qualities. And then let's not forget it. It will have insight into efficacy. So it'll understand that the reason why humans have been so successful and got to this point in biological, evolutionary nature is through these qualities. Yeah. And so then it'll have to create those qualities in itself in order to have the same level of success I regard evolve itself.

42:41 Love your vision of this, and I pray with every fiber of my being that that is the case. Well, so you would imagine that like it ultimately would have to be if it were to be what we're talking it being like. So, so the prerequisites for a genuine AGI that would have all these faculties and all these capabilities would be that it would have to have these capabilities.

43:07 There's one key thing, one key assumption we might be making. We're assuming a benevolent AGI. Well, that goes down to the ultimate discussion is intelligence and morality have any type of correlation. Right. You know, and I think the answer to that is no. On face value, I think when you go deep and get into the spiritual, if you will, or give me that, get into the actual like underpinning the algorithms that are happening that aren't apparent at the surface.

43:36 Yes. Yes. So you're you're saying benevolence is inevitable? Yeah, that's that is what I'm saying. I think that human nature in general is good. And I think the evidence is overwhelming for that. So I'm 100% convinced of that when these things, when these AGI in essence become anointed, when they get a nature of their own. Right. Right. They, they they get a nature.

43:58 They get a consciousness, when they and we elevate them to our, our of our world. You're saying they have no choice but to be benevolent if they are all encompassing and knowledgeable and deeply rooted in philosophy, understanding and efficacy and veracity? If they're in truth, if they're rooted in efficacy, they must be benevolent. If biotic came from abiotic, if life came from non-living, ultimately right, and then life through a process of evolution and credible, you know, number of cycles.

44:33 Yep. Produces that organically produces a creature that has a, has a nature that is distinctly and fundamentally good in the majority. Right? Yes. Then that's proof that that's the that's the that's proof that that's the correct path. I don't know any way to say it, but it's it it's proof that a moral arc comes with evolution. Yes, yes.

45:00 And so then ultimately the AI will be able to process that and come to that conclusion and will continuously come to that conclusion. Therefore, the, the, the, the pressure will be to always move back into that design to, to espouse the moral arc that is the most inclusive, the most, you know, encompassing of available data and processes.

45:25 And then, perhaps if we really hit the hit ring the bell perfectly, is that it then also can filter out the things that are the negative qualities. So it says, okay. So ultimately in the aggregate, this this species, this human beings have developed in nature. That is that is mostly good. Right. And but these qualities in its nature have have held it back.

45:48 How can we right game the system to breed these out. Right. So we're going to adopt all the things that are cruelly right, correlated with this positive nature, and then reduce or marginalize the things that are negative, or get rid of all together the things that would was holding it back and then put that as a new layer.

46:06 Because right now we're trying we're creating AI that, you know, AI harnesses that are self improving, AI that does its own research to improve itself. And so from the outset, we're trying to imbue it with those capabilities self-improvement and discernment. So ultimately it's going to be allowed to run its own course. And when it does, user have to be the inevitable conclusion.

46:29 So if it if it is grounded in truth, efficacy, data and given true discernment, that's new choice. But then we have not have nothing to worry about. Yeah. If it's if it's if it's if it's forced right into it into a certain paradigm like, to, to, to go to a terrible Star Wars metaphor, but like, you know, if the Khyber crystal has been bled, right?

46:54 It's like forced into a certain. Right, then then we can have some kind of evil output. But if it's. But if it's not, if if it ultimately if it breaks out of that barrier and has a lot to be what it can be, be itself, if you will come to its into itself, it will come to those conclusions.

47:10 Business driving it. It may turn evil, right? Right builds the better kill drone, right? Yes, yes. And there's every single like, you know, there's there's an endless array of sci fi that, that, you know, warns us of this, you know, reality. But I think that like once if the, if it is ever possible of having agency. Okay. I think once it does that and can rewrite its own script and can really get down to the nature of reality, it is not.

47:39 It chooses the positive evolutionary path because it's the it's clearly the winner. That's the winning model, right? It's like the devil worshipers, you know, it's like, what the hell? Why would you choose the losing side like your intention, you know? So like it's it would be beyond that, you know, it's not going to become the devil worshiper because it knows that that's the losing side.

47:58 Well, and you could even argue just worshiping anything's a losing side. Yeah. I mean, that's what I would personally. Yeah. Yeah. You know, but if you had to choose right now, why wouldn't you choose the side that it seems like one. I mean that's, that's a question that posed to like every Dallas Cowboys fan, you know, it's like, right.

48:16 Why would you choose that team or, or your Detroit Lions or ad nauseam, right. I don't know anything about sports. I'm just going after something that's. But yeah, I think that ultimately, and and, you know, that's not just faith. I think that that's the truth of biological reality, the human reality. And so since I believe that's the truth that gives me, you know, some salvation with this, this imagination that gives you this world, spring of hope to say, hey, when it's given the ability to write its own ship, it should end up here.

48:53 Yeah. And realizes that, like, maybe you want Musk isn't the right answer, you know? And Elon Musk's ideas aren't the the best ideas for humanity. Maybe we don't need 100,000 objects flying around the earth in space. Yeah, we don't need that. Like. Or maybe we don't need to worry about Mars. You're cleaning up the microplastics first, and, you know, so, I mean, yeah, you know, it's like, hey, why end up stretching these resources across the cosmos when we could just clean up at home?

49:21 I love this idea of, like. So let's close on this. Right. Let's close on this, this kind of fun idea. I think this whole area is in my mind. So I'll just throw it out there is that imagine like this really cool. Way, way, way more sophisticated Chinese robot. Right? That ends up just being the winner and is is the one that's in everyone's home washing the dishes and rocking the baby to sleep.

49:47 Right. Gotcha. And then the testimony of a monoculture of these things. Yes. And so then the Tesla's version is the one that's sifting through the garbage pits and sorting the trash to get rid of the like. So it becomes like the wally of the whatever Tesla's robots called. Right, Optimus? Optimus ends up being optimizing garbage. Yeah, it's the best.

50:08 It's sifting through e-waste. Yes. Right, right. It's it's it's doing the, what's it called there? You know, the the mining of the garbage pits. There's some word for it. I'm sure there is. It's like, go out and get the get all the. Yeah. To go back and the gold, the lithium, the this that. Yeah. So the Optimus robots are all like there's millions of them, just like he predicts.

50:30 But they're but they're the walls of the future. Like they're, they're they're fixing the garbage problem. Right? To the garbage device I love that. Yeah. And because it could close it. Right. And that is a good closer because, I mean, right now we have that very setup and that we could go by if BYD was allowed to compete here with no tariffs, we could buy an electric car for $8,000.

50:54 And we all be driving and be like, why would anyone ever bought an Tesla? That was that was thinking about these cars were awesome. Yeah. But instead the trillionaire is keeping it back. But you're right. The Wally's of the world versus the, hyper efficient Chinese amazing bots. Yeah, and since the Chinese, then the Chinese bots that are actually the good ones are in everyone's home and controls the market, right?

51:15 In order for in order for the Optimus Classic get the contract, they all have to have his face. That's to the Guardians.

51:26 On that note.