0:01 All right. So I hit the button. That means go. It's a red light on the machine, but it's a green light for us. All right. So I told you. I warned you that I start with something heavy this morning. Well, I mean, we already started with, you know, doomed or the meek, the merciful and the charitable and the charitable and the righteous.

0:26 Yeah, yeah, to get ourselves. Get our minds going. This morning, we just listened to the song called The Doomed by a Perfect Circle. It's pretty good. Yeah. To get a to try to, stimulate the brain. Oh, dark. Oh, dark.

0:48 No. Gave up with that phrase. Yeah. All right, so this is the theme. The initial theme for today's conversation is symbiosis.

0:58 So I had an epiphany the other day. I was I don't I don't even know, like when, when like I what, what puts me in the same thought mode. But sometimes, like, I get in thought mode, you just become very pensive and dive in into the deep pool of your thoughts. Yeah, that tends to be when I'm by myself.

1:17 Oh, yeah. With lack of stimulation, your brain turns inward. Kind of does. And, I don't think I ever really told you I actually meditate. Nice. I learned how to do it years ago, and, I do it from time to time. I don't do it like, daily. Like probably. What I what I should really do is, like, every morning, start with some kind of striking exercise.

1:41 Because, I'm way too rigid. Like I need to be more flexible. Plus, it makes you feel like you've about a two by four, but, some very famous people who have been very successful meditate daily, like, fine. Feld, weirdly enough, is a big advocate of transcendental meditation. Yeah. And, I can put some adjective in front of mine too, and make it sound awesome.

2:08 Yeah. But I mean, it is a matter of it's an approach and a school of thought toward it. It's a way to organize the activity. Yeah. So, yeah, they people have been doing it so long, I think there's some credence toward the different, you know, schools, as it were. Yeah. Yeah, it makes little sense. Funny, I never noticed this building before.

2:32 It's like series of little apartments. Kind of kind of nice looking, actually. It was really a. And I have to give up props for not having multiple column like some of the uni renovated places around here. Yeah, we keep saying when I keep making fun of them, like if they have, we say if they have two sets of columns, they prestige.

2:53 Once there are some places to have like 3 or 4 sets of columns. It's like, oh they for stage four times nice. Every remodel they had another set of Collins said the Call of Duty reference. Yeah I love it. Yeah. That's excellent. Yeah. So, Symbiosis, right? It's like, so this is my epiphany is that I was like, okay, so how is he actually defined?

3:19 Like, if you were to, kind of zoom out, you're an alien species, right? And you come in and, you know, whatever from playing in his old tar with a fuck, you know, some kind of advanced technological species, you kind of come down and you say, hey, how would we actually define this? This, this creature.

3:43 Right. You're going to try to tell me, initially a symbiotic relationship with the planet upon which it dwells? I don't know. Yeah, right. So, like, you know, to, to, to qualify, classify, kind of validate it, you know, to, I don't know, like, like, like put it in its, put it into its category, you know. Yeah. And like you're, you're, you're, you're making it for the conference.

4:07 You're making a classification smell good. You're making a classification, you know. Yeah. And you describe the planet and its and fauna and all that kind of stuff. Right. And you say there's a series of intelligent, organic beings, you know, grid apes. And, you know, you just described the taxonomy like, you would know the fucking whales and. Yeah, dolphins and.

4:31 Right. Yeah. Right. Carbon based life form, you know, mostly this and that. And then there's these other ones that dare to modify the landscape and environment to great degree. Yeah. So regardless of of what species you were in the whole universe, you know, you'd have some type of symbiosis with your, with with the universe to some extent, some part, some your fragment of universe.

4:54 You understand and appreciate your relationship to the other. Right. And so humanity you would you could describe as its current state. Like I'm not talking about future past like where we're at right now. You know, if they came back down today, I'll say, you know, they would it's interesting how they say come down. But anyway, I don't think they come here.

5:17 Right. Yeah, but come down. I mean, it is it's all relative. It's relative to where we dwell. So it is down to us. Yeah. It would be like ascending or descending from heaven. Idea. Yeah. And so, you know, bottom line of what I'm getting at is that I think that they do is they say, okay, they have a they have a dual symbiosis.

5:36 What they have a, kind of a bifurcated symbiosis. This species that calls himself human. Right. And one is they have course have a biological symbiosis with the planet in their environment. Sure. Which gets into biology and all the interplay between species and. Yeah. Morning. As much or as little as we understand it. Yeah. And so we know that, like, our body uses bacteria for a lot of its functions.

6:03 Right. We just know that you we don't know how to curate the human body, a human microbiome. But, hey, scientists have recently created an artificial one. Yeah. And. Right. And so we could talk about that, but, you'd say, okay, well, first and foremost, they, they have to breed this air that that is created from, you know, oxygen, which is created from these trees.

6:26 Yeah. You know, is this is this cool to walk down here? I guess so let's do it this way. Scarce. Yeah. That looks like a ditch. A dark ditch. Yeah. No, we're bound to trip in. Yeah. I don't want to know what that to be. I wanted it to be that day. A dark concrete ditch where I lose it, too.

6:44 Yeah.

6:49 You missing a front teeth? They got broken up. It's like mission accomplished for the day. Yeah. It's like. Well, we really came down hard on that day. We we we learned that we weren't very symbiotic with that ditch. Yeah. Not properly respected and developed a relationship with that. Right. So the air right. The air itself, you know, we we rely on this, oxygen rich atmosphere.

7:15 And the oxygen is produced by other living things, you know, as far as we know and the geology of the Earth, there was a point in time where oxygen was very limited. Yeah. And so, aerobic bacteria. Yeah. It was an anaerobic environment. Aerobic bacteria did not run the day like they do now. Right. And so then photosynthesis evolved.

7:36 And then they say, you know, boom. Got the oxygen rich atmosphere. That type of thing right. Starts to display some of the nitrogen and carbon dioxide. And then from what I understand to there was a point in our geological history that where the oxygen levels on Earth were much higher even. Right. Yeah. So anyway, human beings have a symbiosis with the.

7:58 Yeah. They were much higher because they had not been. Hey, we had bugs the size of a car. Yeah. Right. So different, different species were able to thrive in different types of environments. Right. Because they have a different form of symbiosis with that environment. And so then that environment just produces evolutionary speaking certain species. Right. Yeah. There's a drive to evolution to, accommodate the environment.

8:25 Right. Those, those creatures that do better in any given environment will pass on their DNA. Right. So anyway, and we codify that principle, such as, you know, survival of the fittest and coupled with evolution. Yeah. Yeah. And so in our, in our cells, from what I understand, mitochondria is like literally a foreign has its own form.

8:46 Yeah. They they think it's a point. We, we basically engulfed or absorbed another cell and that it's the organelle from another. Yeah. Bacteria, basically. Yeah. And so. Right. Our cells found a way to have a symbiotic relationship, almost like a it's the powerhouse of our cell. Yeah. It's a process of the ATP or whatever. Adichie and, I don't remember.

9:11 That's a home security thing. No, no no no. That's right. I'm just kidding. ATP is right. Certainly seen is at P. Yeah. From that biology class. I remember, I remember my. So anyway our our our our bodies our these basically incubation we incubate the kind of bacteria we want. That's that official to us at different things that gestion.

9:37 Our skin has a flora. You know, part of protection is certain vector that we incubate through our sebaceous glands. That bacteria kills off bad bacteria to infections. Right. You know, etc.. And you know, our sebaceous glands, globs, we get we get pimples. So it's that Flora, gets off a little bit, you know, then then it trips different mechanisms inside of our body, activates different bacteria, etc..

10:02 Right. So our bodies are like these symbiotic systems. Yeah, yeah. Symbiotic systems. The new we're trying to constantly achieve homeostasis. That balance. Yeah. With with this symbiotic environment, with homeostasis from the standpoint of our physiology. But also that physiology is extended through the symbiotic relationship with the environment and bacteria and viruses etcetera. Right. Right. And so then obviously our bodies are attenuated to the food that nature can provide as well.

10:34 Right. Yeah. We have this omnivore capability. Yeah. You know, we also have started engineering our own quote unquote food. Yeah. Which segways into the into the other kind of bifurcated symbiosis that the way I kind of vision it here and that and that is. Oh, shit. What is this? I have this, like, on my phone. I also has this little light which will be in a little light of mine.

11:01 I'm the lettuce and. All right, so the other, fork here is, technology. So we have a symbiosis with technology itself. And, I know it's giving agency, it's assigning some type of, you know, thing to technology beyond just a array of, capabilities and stuff and things. Right? Yeah. But what I'm doing that in purpose.

11:28 But we have to into it to a degree to really talk about it as an entity and as a cell feeding and growing thing. Right. Because it's defining technology is defining for humanity. Right? Right. And so, you know, my, my, the vision I had before, years ago, I talked about man converting into a converging into a biomechanical species and a mechanical.

11:52 Right. So, yeah. Biological cyborgs. Yeah. And what moment of of any given day does any given human not engage in simple in technology? I mean, like basically impossible. Yeah. And that's it if you include everything from shelter. But that also, I think that comes down to how we've talked about how the modern humans might be thoroughly bifurcated as well.

12:19 I mean, you know, as far as homo técnicas versus Homo sapiens. Exactly. Yeah. That's like the subspecies Asian through capability. Yep. Because the homogeneous is the one that is consistently and constantly interacting with technology to subsist. Right. Because we at the level we're at, most of us, we cannot survive. We cannot subsist on a bare level without interruption.

12:49 Exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying. And so we have this duality of symbiosis. And so this alien species that would come down and define us would be like, hey, look, this this species is symbiotic at this point in their history with their environment and technology. Yeah, right. And that's basically defining. That's really how you define humanity. Now internalizing that saying okay, so what should we do as human beings.

13:15 How how can we live optimally? I think well, it's increasing that relationship, not only just recognizing it and giving lip service to it, but really diving into it and saying, on the level of the fable, the Indians of your understanding, every facet of your environment, respecting it, and, you know, generating it. Exactly. Herring for it. Yeah. He basically took the words out of my mouth.

13:44 I was going to use different words with the same idea. I was going to say Foster and Steward. Yeah, those two symbiotic systems. Right? I mean, even that damnable Bible we keep talking about tells us to be good stewards of our resources. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of vague, but, you know, well, you know, it confers upon us responsibility for all the animals in Genesis by saying, Adam named them, they're basically his.

14:14 Yeah. So inevitably technology, we're going to be altering our biology. You know, you can imagine genetic engineering. You can imagine, you know, all these different things in plant devices, technology, you know, literally embedded going forward and whatnot. So technology continues to play a more and more prominent role. And so you can look at these things, it's like almost like sliders, you know, like a gradient.

14:38 You know, it's everything like an equalizer. Oh, yeah. You know, and inevitably, we'll be altering our biology through technology to the point where we could perhaps diminish our symbiotic reliance on the biological world. And I think that is a falling. Yeah, probably. It's probably, probably not a good idea, especially at this level of technological ability, because we are still absolutely dependent on our environment and we don't yet understand our environment enough to just wholesale ignore it and leave it.

15:06 Yeah, I can definitely imagine a sci fi future where, like if he were to see the Earth from space, it would be a technologically developed, you know, clearly, you know, right kind of area that's been thoroughly terraformed and customized. Yeah, right. Like, the whole entire Earth is a city. You know, I can totally imagine that. And, you know, especially if we have these different energy technologies that come online, like fusion or whatever.

15:31 Right. You know, and that gives us, in essence, limitless power compared to what we have now. Yeah. And then we can just start doing vertical farms and, you know, kind of start prying ourselves away from nature, you know. Right. By, by being completely in charge of it, you know, like, for it in a way, I still lament that should we become, should we do that as much to the same level?

16:01 I mean, feel like we should follow both paths at the same time? Definitely. At this point in our development, we should be arguing stewards of both symbiotic systems because we depend on buzz, and to ignore one to the exclusion of the other is just shortsighted. And we're putting our blinders on. Right. And so what we have is we have an actual not only not only do we have like, through this philosophy, we have a means by which we can improve our lives, for sure.

16:31 But through this kind of lens, by, well, we have a means by which we can understand, introspect and improve our environment as well that we depend on. Exactly. And so what I was thinking is then we can actually create, once and for all, a tangible moral code, a functioning moral code by which we can live based on how well we steward those, those two domains, those two symbols and the relationships.

16:59 All right. So rather than saying, you know, oh, Heavenly Father, tell us how to how to behave. Right. We actually have a pathway now to, to to a moral code to to a code of ethics. We're not confined to the meek morality of Christianity. Right? Right. We define a moral code and set of actions that come with it that are more proactive, driven than reactive, because that's Christianity is reactive.

17:28 Christianity is something to make you okay with your lot. Yeah. So you were given. Yeah. So so as a concrete example. Right. We could say, oh, you know, we could administer antibiotics, you know, to everybody in mass and flood our bodies within Tobias constantly to constantly kill off bacteria. Right. And the question is, is that is that more with a set of probiotics that foster the correct microbiome?

18:00 Now, it's exactly what I'm talking about. And give it to an issue antibiotics. Unless they are absolutely needed, which they are, they are a tool that we can use, right. When certain bacteria go, go and mock in our bodies, we can make medicines that then counteract that. Yeah, I just had an ear infection and was on a course of Onyx for five days.

18:20 I had this fucking bubble in my ear, you know? And now it's great. Right? So so that's applying technology to biology and appropriately to better our lives. Yeah. And that's the property is but some people just take in about as therapeutically they feel a little bit of a tinge of something coming on. Boom. They get anybody enough. The doctor put me on a recurring subscription or a prescription of antibiotics.

18:46 Bought swelling in my lower eyelid than my gland, I think. Alrighty then. Learn a new word every day. Yeah. Never, never knew there was such a gland. And apparently this particular set of antibiotics really helps with inflammation. Nice. Well, so we can we can start to develop a moral diet book or a moral framework by how well we steward these two different symbiotic systems.

19:19 Right. Yeah. And so that was an example in the biological realm. Right. Another another one in the biological realm is less that shit in our environment because we depend on the environment for our own survival. And said. Third maxim don't shit where you live. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And in, in that that vein of thought, we can unveil a whole new, kind of like, philosophy of environmental ism, right?

19:45 Yeah. We could say clean air. Clean water is vital to us. Rather than just having a picture of an Indian cry and say, pick up your trash, we come up with, you know, a ethos and plan of action for environmentalist that isn't passive, but that is rather active and ingrained in our activities. That's right. So we instead of trying to interpret what some invisible man in the sky wants, we can start to think more humanistic and more about what's, you know, what works for human beings, for the health and welfare of humanity through the mechanism, the stewards of these two symbiotic systems.

20:22 All right. So I can come up with all kinds of. So basically, every human being should be an environmentalist because to be an environmentalist, since it's a symbiotic relationship with a severe humanist. Right. Right. So care about in the environment is to care about yourself. Yeah. It's like you care about the environment because the luxury of being selfish.

20:42 Yeah. The the environment as it is, is an extension of humanity. Absolutely. Whether we like it or not, whether we like it or not, I money so that so that's like a moral, basic moral framework in that domain. You pull it over to the technological domain. And that's where I've been ranting about you. He thinks he's heading.

21:05 He's. I got a so hidden right here.

21:11 Humans eyes are attenuated to movement. If I said perfectly still. Yeah. That's it. It's it. They can't see me. The they're fishing is motion based. I think they only see in black and white to.

21:25 They're more rods. No cones.

21:29 They just repeat that to install rods. No no no no. Good thing in order to use Mary carrots as we do. Yeah. I have acute vision. Do my vitamin A overdose and an eyeball and either side of my fucking head so I could see 360 degree. Yeah. It's. What's that? Fish is the same way. I think so.

21:54 When it's got two eyes on one side and. Yeah, slapped around the bottom can see everything. Right temper. Except for something lurking in the sand, of course. Right. Yeah, but I guess it's above to say, hey, less predators are in the sand and more are both. Yep, yep. And the other fish that are getting eating but eaten by everything else.

22:11 And they're at the bottom and they're like, yeah, who's the bottom feeder now mother. So technology I you know, for years now I've heard this vein of philosophy called technology philanthropy. And the idea is to steward the application of technology for the betterment of all human beings, you know, and having a simple moral framework by which you can operate by looking at how technology is applied.

22:36 Yeah. So basically what I'm saying is that but not okay. I'm also going to say I think not just application immediate application, but ramifications of application. Oh, absolutely. And that's the piece we're missing right now. Absolutely. And creativity and thoughtfulness towards, you know, unintended consequences. There we go. That's the that's the piece you're adding that we haven't given a full treatment of, in my personal.

23:02 Yeah, opinion. So, you know, the idea of thinking about these things as a primary function of government, as a primary function of humanities, as a primary function of because it is governance of that which, which we have and depend on. Yes, yes. It's a, it's a, it's a full dependance. And also what, what separates us from all the other species on the planet is every species on the planet has this symbiotic symbiosis with nature.

23:27 But we've created a symbiosis with technology as well. And that's what makes humans. And because of that, we created a feedback loop where we modify that environment, it modifies us, we modify technology, it modifies us. Exactly. So both of those symbiotic relationships are constant feedback loop. That's right. Which we haven't really I guess said yes. No, you're right.

23:49 And that the biological feedback loop is, is how we're altering the environment aka climate change, for example. Yes. Right. Which is hopefully an attendant consequence of industrialization but could be intended. Yeah. If we could, if we can get to the point where we can tip that scale a little bit and, you know, think along these lines of stewardship, like I said.

24:12 And then obviously, if we can act in a way that creates the climate change, we could act in a way that towards it, right? Or, you know, undoes it. Yes. So, which, which then leads into all. So that is the foundation, not just accidentally reducing it to some degree by having a pandemic. Right, right. Yeah. Like I said, be conscious stewards of the environment and not my end.

24:35 The solution to that, the way it looks right now are kind of best. Hope, if you will, is some type of technology that we discover. Yeah. And as as you put it, heavy emphasis on the discover. We don't have it yet. Yeah. Right now we're on our. And less and less technology. Emerges. Pretty soon we're playing chicken with our destiny.

24:56 I guess you could say. Oh, yeah, and we're going to lose. And, Yeah, the irony is, it's like we see it coming, which is. Which is really great. Yeah. You see the dam 18 Wheeler barreling down on your little tuck. Tuck. Right. Yeah. Because, I mean, it's kind of what it is. Yeah. And, you know, it's like we kind of do stand in the at the precipice of this of the of the classic utilitarianism trolley problem right now.

25:23 Right. We could change directions and and not kill everybody. Yeah. You know, so like one track is the current track, which is, you know, consume, consume the world to our own doom, right? For money and for gluttony. Yeah. Lenny. Gluttony power. You know, whatever. Whatever things people amass. Yeah. So so you can imagine then a political change, lining up with, starting to line up with, this, this reality, right?

25:57 This, this reality of the, of the. And so I imagine, like what you say in the United States, imagine I think we've done this a bunch of times saying like, if you're king for the day. Yeah. So you can imagine like the, the, the wholesale ability to alter your political structure and the social structure would say, okay, so what might we do to start steward the environment better, right.

26:19 Yeah. Well, for United States, having a consumer based economy is kilometers, right? Killing the Earth. I mean, one plastic bottle, garbage patch at a time. Yeah. It's it's conspicuous consumption to use the term. It's, you know, we are just on a hamster wheel of more and more and more from everything from I have to have my five Gatorade a day to.

26:44 Yeah. You know, needing that face cream so that you look fucking pretty at 72. Yeah. And every aspect of biology and technology gets reduced to a consumer commodity, you know, and that's, that's a that's a recipe for disaster. You know water trading is like a lot of. Oh there you go. I rest my case. Yeah. So this, this kind of, societal slash governmental, political, socio economic structure, you know, basically everything our consumerism and growth is a fucking, you know, burning your candle from both ends of the planet.

27:19 Right. And is very antagonistic to the stewardship idea that I'm talking about biological stewardship and, and in total and complete opposition. If anything, it wants to crush it actively. Yeah, but the business model is to crush it to, to to have dominion over it and, and squeeze as rapidly as possible every resource out of it. Right. Because the idea is, hey, there's always been more.

27:43 We'll find more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll find more in the find creative ways to find more. Yeah. Which is morning, you know, which is, asinine. Yeah. Like like like, let's just burn through all the resources because we can. Yeah. It's like, hey, the universe is plentiful. Either find more here, we'll go get it somewhere else. Yeah. Remember I told you about the guy that I rented the, office space from, and he'd always put out, like.

28:13 Like, like, one tenth size rolls of paper towels. Oh, wow. Did I tell you about that? I don't remember so.

28:22 To to dry our hands is like. So it was like a shared workspace kind of thing. He provided something like paper towels and told the paper, yeah, so open paper towels and fill it. Paper right in the in the bathrooms. Yeah. And there was never a full roll of of, of paper towel. What, did he just spoil it up on another roll?

28:41 I mean, how did he do it, I wonder, save an empty core and spool it on it. I don't I don't really know exactly how he did. He might have spooled it. Very well. May have. And I asked him where day. Why? There's never a full roll towels out there. Like, what the hell? Yeah. So I just noticed a and he said, well, if I put a full roll out there, people will take six house to wipe their hands.

29:07 What? But if I put a roll that's like close to ending, people will just take one towel and use them sparingly. And that was just his own thing. That was like his thing, right? Yeah. I don't know if he's right. He's totally right. Okay? He's totally right. When something is in is in a is in massive abundance visually that we see something.

29:27 Well, I can say we tend to consume more. True. And I can also say as a corollary to that. But you know, when a when an area is cleaner and well-maintained to a certain level, people were generally expect that level and mess it up less. Yeah. Right. And so it's a it's a play on our nature when we're, when we're just around that love.

29:50 Yeah. When we're surrounded by bounty, Bountiful harvest, if you will. We have a tendency to overindulge. Right. Because. Yeah. Yeah. And so this is this is the problem in a consumer based economy is that you walk into any store and there's plenty of something. Yes. And so that's the Walmart phenomenon. You go in there for a hammer and you leave with a hammer.

30:13 Three things from three things from the grocery section, from the beauty section, two from the home. They never, you know, intended to buy. And. Yeah, okay. Walmart in general has cheaper prices, but it has so many things that when you're walking through the store, you say, oh yeah, I can pick one of those up. I can pick one of these.

30:32 I think I'm here just the price point. Absolutely. So that it's more of an impulse buy. Right. So the whole place becomes an impulse buy. You go in there for a hammer, you leave with $150 worth of shit that you haven't. You have ten impulse buys at eight away at, you know, your resolve there. See something on the end cap?

30:48 Oh, that's a good deal. I might as well get one of those now. Yeah, and you don't need it. And you had no intention of buying it. And so you just naturally play the game because. Because in this store is everything on display in Bountiful harvest. All right. So the impulse is to over consume. And I think the other idea though that dovetails into what we're saying that, okay, make things less Bountiful and seemingly less plentiful so that people can't have that argument to fall back on, even if they don't say it out loud in their own minds, they're like, there's plenty.

31:22 Yeah. Make things. Make things less like that. And less. This displays less like that. Stores less like that don't have the Walmart Supercenter, have the neighborhood market model. Yeah. Where people, naturally consume in the neighborhood market model because of their awareness of these reflectors. Yeah, I think just let them let the smaller, you know, instead of 35 of one item we have five.

31:53 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, there's there's other ways to like let's say you also the tax code where you stop taxing labor and you stop taxing, corporations that are creating the means for production, you know, and for employment. You stop taxing those those systems directly and you start taxing consumption. So you start to say, okay, I mean, I say, fuck them there.

32:19 I, we tax labor too, because no, no, no, no, we tax labor because those faces are like, they're shifting labor to robotics. So of course we have to make them pay for that. Well, I'm not talking about that kind of labor. I'm talking about traditional, you know, your paycheck. Oh, yeah. Human human paycheck. I mean, yeah, yeah, you can tax robotics for sure.

32:42 But I'm saying, you know, I say there needs to be the automation tax. But yeah, if you want to get rid of my labor taxes on me too. Yeah. Corporation tax them to hell. Yeah. So if it's. Yeah. Okay. Well if the tax code was equitable on the consumption side. Right. So like the bottle of booze that is just fucking terrible for you.

33:03 Like, you know, alcohol is the worst drug by far, you know. So it's still a b c store still exist liquor store spirits or we're going to call it still exists, but the bottle is now $40 and says 20, right. You're going to buy less of it. Yeah. Everything. Soda, chips. And that experiment happened in New York, right?

33:21 Soda, chips, those kind of things got taxed. It was like the convenience store tax model. Yeah. And so now all of a sudden, the banana that's that's up there at the register and the bag of chips is back and chips is $8. Yeah. But the banana is $0.35 because subsidized. Right. You see. But then also I feel like besides these ideas, we also have to look at the other side of the coin that I mentioned the psychology of.

33:47 You'll maintain things that they're already decent. Yes. So we have to bring things up to a decent level as well. We have to make everything so that it looks bit. We have to figure out what that level of psychology is, that this area needs to look a certain level of nice so that people don't throw their trash on it.

34:05 Yeah for sure. Because because the environment, how it's presented has psychological effect, big time on people. This determinism like we discussed much time. Yeah. And it's real and it's undeniable. And we have to make a do things like instead of this can just being hungry as shit. Maybe we inject some Judy and Symbiosis into the environment where it looks like it belongs, it looks like, and it also draws your eye and your attention so that maybe you throw things in it, I don't know.

34:38 Yeah. I mean, get it to the point where people are taking photos next to trash cans, but you're so beautiful. Yeah, like like beautifying the environment is is cool. It's good for the soul if Instagrammable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you need less Instagram if everywhere around you as an Instagram. Yeah. And I think that's the idea right. We want everything that we want to shed that consumer economy.

35:02 We want to shift the tax model to something that does more encourage less consumption and more money in the the plebs pockets ourselves, right? Yeah, it's definitely a good, good, candidate for augmented reality to so like, right. Kind of augmented reality. A fucking ghetto could turn into a Paradise. So like, you're looking through your augmented lenses and every piece of trash is automatically edited out and every wall has beautiful artwork on it.

35:35 But why? Why? That's trash. We want them to take the trash and get rid of it. We want them to put the trash into the yes, it says so. You you earn digital currency by thinking you know you're in digital currency, but you are digital currency. By improving the eyesores that are spotlighted by the augmented reality. There you go.

35:53 It's got a glow around it. And if you pick it up, put it in the trash, you get a coin. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, maybe, maybe we augment other things like, okay, instead of his other activities. Okay. Pick it up. Trash. Right. But what about we use this massive AI we're developing to try to hone in on relationships to, well, which becomes part of that stewardship because the part of the biological human self is our proper social interactions.

36:21 Right. And what if we facilitate that with technology? One second doesn't suck, and it can actually do things like take my order at Burger King, which I could not do the other day. They had dialed into some sort of third party service, and we're short staffed and taking my order at the owl window, and this thing was like, so would you like, oh hey, blah, blah, blah today?

36:49 And I was like, no, that's, you know, that's a perfect that's a perfect example. And it's still added to blah, blah, blah, blah to my order. That's something that needs to be fully automated, right? Like the fast food joint. It's where there is no interaction with people whatsoever. We don't have good speech to text or voice to text.

37:07 We just don't have it. Well, it's just not cost effective as labor as human labor is still. Well, it also doesn't handle all the edge cases that human beings can handle. Sure, until it can fuck it. I don't want to use it. Well, I'm willing to give up some of the edge cases for consistency, better service, and no spit or hair in my fucking food.

37:30 Yeah, I mean this, I don't know. Then you get then instead you'll get unrecognized lubricant and the AI goes rogue and gets as disgruntled as job starts, starts moving, looming in your burden. Nobody's there. And the the not the AI, but the mechanical process itself isn't being monitored. So what if it goes awry and does leak? Or what if it.

38:00 Oh, you'd have to put self-monitoring effect, right? That'd be part of the future. But all of our systems that we built, self-monitoring only work some degree because we never figure out how to monitor everything. True, every there's some eventuality that's not covered. Yeah, dude, there's a lot of people that have touched my food in my lifetime that I was not comfortable with.

38:22 So true. And I feel like it. So maybe you'd still eat it from the AI to maybe. Yeah. And then maybe I was starting to like the taste of whatever lubricant was.

38:35 Turpentine. And, what is that? Standard lube. There's, like a lubricant that's used like machine lubricant. I forgot what it's called. Doesn't matter. Some kind of Greece, I don't know. Yeah. So silicone grease or. Yeah. I'd have to look it up. It's been so long. It's like a mineral spirit type thing, I don't know. Okay. That's big and a lot of industrial processes.

38:56 Neat. Yeah. So, you know, inevitably the data will show that the AI contaminates the food far, far less frequency from farm to to the table. Right? Level of accuracy goes up so much that. Well, let's be clear. Really, I'm not just ranting. We're not there yet. Yeah, just like the driving. Yeah, except they'll be accidents. But then you compare it to, well, we're still not even there yet to where we can say it's better because there's all sorts of weird situations where, I don't know, I think the AI hits a person.

39:32 Yeah, but there's where humans had people. Yeah. And and I think they are already does it a lot less frequency. But for the AI our standards are still high. We expect zero humans hit. I mean that's what I want, what it takes ever. It needs to be fucking flawless. Well, there's no reason for me to let it take over.

39:49 What if unless 1000 times better than humans? Unless it's. I need what magnitude of better than humans? I need continuous improvement towards perfection. Because mechanization can create perfection. So, you know, there has to be some type of threshold because, you know, there's there's a there's environmental circumstances that are impossible to mitigate every variable. I mean, the tree fault, what what tree limb falls?

40:16 I mean, come on. What I'm trying to say, though, is we don't stop where we're at and say it's good enough. Yeah, sure. Okay. Continuous improvement, I agree. But there's like acts of God that are not, you know, like strike hits. Yeah, I don't expect those things to be covered. But I expect the bog standard everyday thing that a human being can avoid.

40:38 It should be able to avoid 100%. So you just get into a really, really, really good, not necessarily perfection because perfection in an imperfect superstructure, I guess what I'm saying is possible perfection in relation to the human being. Anything that even being could avoid at a high frequency, we needed to avoid 100%. Okay. Fair enough. You know, I don't know what level will be acceptable from the legislative perspective.

41:06 I think it'll be far less. I think they're probably going to look at a 50 or 60 model. Well, the way it is right now, you know, we accept a certain amount of death on the roadways. Who do you based on human error. But should we I mean, that's that's the whole point of mechanization, right? No, we shouldn't, but it's become culturally we've become culturally attenuated a certain amount of death and dysfunction.

41:29 But we can rescue ourselves from that with our technology and wholly our technology to a higher standard by saying we need the engineering dollars, needs a basic research we need. Yeah. So long as so long as the standard isn't so high that it can't ever be. A pain, therefore is supporting the capability. I think, I think our legislative expectation has to grow with our capability, but I think it also needs to be a a driver to push the edge because a driver, a good one, you know what I'm saying?

42:01 No. Yeah I know exactly what you're saying. And I agree like mostly I don't know what the I don't know exactly what the threshold would be. I'm not sure it was your favorite. I mean, I want to take I want us to take as the gold standard the best human being at some point. Snap your fingers tomorrow. All cars are equipped with AI.

42:23 No humans drive any car. They're all driven by AI. And there's a 5% improvement in in motor vehicle accidents and death. Do we start? Do we accept that start? Well, I think blanket society would say no because we have a we have a bias towards our own capability. 5%. Yes, we do have a bias. Capability to 5% is achievable by anyone you know.

42:49 So there's 100,000 accidents per quarter, right? You roll out full AI driven cars and there's 10,000 accidents per quarter. Well, that's orders of magnitude. That's orders of magnitude better. But I think people would still say, oh no, look at all these examples of the AI fucking up. Well, they're going to do that because they're feeling displaced right there.

43:09 So there's the bias in parking about it's not just the performance metric is the feeling of control. Well yeah. And that's what I'm trying to say. Before I would comfortably feed control. Yeah I would want a high level of a super high magnitude of success, super high magnitude of success. Because what's the point of me seating control of.

43:28 It's nearly as mediocre as I am. Yeah, right. Well, if it if it shows some qualified, measured ability, better if we stop at that qualified measure. Better what? Yeah, right. With a with a goal function of bringing it to zero. Right. So initially what's going to happen is that you're going to have this AI self-driving cars perform way, way, way better than humans.

43:54 Yes. And that's great for sure. But then you're still going to have other humans on the road. So they're never going to have to legislate no human drivers. Well yeah. And but that's that's at least a generation away if we're lucky. Probably more. Well I don't know, dude. You never should predict, technology. Well, I'm not really trying because I guess what I'm predicting is all the.

44:21 I feel like the red tape, the over promise of corporations and, you know, generally the level of success they've had so far. I'm saying you got another 20 years. Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, you said generation before. Yeah. Well, isn't that about the side? Isn't that what we're what we're basically talking about every 20, 25 years. There's a yeah.

44:48 The new generation we fall out. Yeah. Most technological predictions either fall way short or.

44:57 Yeah, we're back in school bus land now. Yeah. So, most technological predictions are way off because they're either dramatically under overestimated 100%. And I'm sure this one is dramatically over estimated, but.

45:15 I'm a curious combination of technologists and what I and, I do not believe in the overall saving power and gospel of AI in its current incarnation. Right. And that's there's a, there's a gospel like affinity towards technology. But again, it stems from this, reality that we're in, the symbiosis, even though it's unspoken, it's still felt. Yeah.

45:41 So what effect? Everything we do. People. Yeah, people feel the effects, but they don't really have much of a way to to qualify, verbalize, discussed or qualified in a way that we can speak about it. As a society. We need a nomenklatura. We need a. All right. Just trying to think of the country that released a free AI course to all of its citizens and then opened it up to the world to in, like, eight different languages.

46:11 Nice. That'd be awesome. Like, that's. No, it was one of the Scandinavian countries that's super enlightened. And we should all be like Finland, Sweden, Norway, I want to Finland three. Yep. But I can, they opened up in English and I took it. Cool, man. It's it's good. Like it it would be a good general education course for anyone on AI.

46:42 And that's the level we need you here to link that content. Okay, I'll find it again. But it took a couple of weeks for me to take it. That's cool. It was actually heavy on content. Very cool. Yeah, man. It's like, you know, that's that's really like a missing component. We don't have the language. Really. What we do are kind of our kind of like normal consumer.

47:07 Excuse me. Like kind of our normal consumer, attitude, if you will, towards technology is just to watch what comes out. Right. Like monitoring the tech news, like what an Apple come out with is a feature set for the iPhone 27. Right. And so we kind of sit watching kind of just we're, we're we're waiting for the tablets brought to us by the priesthood.

47:31 There you go. That's great way to say it. Love it. Yeah. And so we should acknowledge that that's, you know, a flaw in our consumptive mouth, a more participatory model, right? Where there's we're just expanded language on how to discuss technology better and also how to create it. And you're it. How are you doing? You know. Yeah. And if we have this new language, like, you know, the proverbial, Eskimos with 25 different words for snow or whatever.

48:00 Yeah, right. We start to have, more language surrounding the biological and technological symbiosis. We could start to better steward it just through our change in language. Right? Because we've got these. I keep saying this kind of thing in our podcast, but in essence, we have bigger concepts. We'd have bigger Legos to build with. Yes. And so we have to encapsulate these concepts, give them catchy words or phrases, or find a way to grow those organically so that people can discuss so that it penetrates the collective social consciousness.

48:37 Absolutely. His language, as we talked about in the past as well, has a big impact on that. So if we had a much greater vernacular of technological and biological speech in our daily language, right. So like, America has all this gun language. Yes. You know, built into it. Oh, you know, I'm riding shotgun, right? You know, I could go on and on, I did I did this on Facebook.

49:01 I, started it started one and everyone dog piled it for fun. And it's like, dude, there's got to be at least a few hundred common phrases. Yeah. You know, like, there, I'll shoot you in email, right? Right. There's all these, like, you know, there's no silver bullets at this problem. Yeah. I mean, oh my gosh, it goes on and on.

49:22 And it really does like, you know, it's it's heavily integrated into corporate speak like you know. Oh I guess we're kind of off target right. You know. Oh he's shooting from the hip I just goes on and on and on. Right. Yeah. And so technological and biological phrases, phraseology and language inserted into our more inserted into our vernacular would be useful.

49:47 It would. And I also think it would help towards active active participation, not the passive consumption of technology faculty. Every one of us has the potential to create, modify, and customize our technology for us. We don't have to wait for the priesthood, hand things down, and we need what we do have. We do have a default. We do have a default that we are locked into as individuals.

50:15 Like, you know, you kind of have to take a certain degree of default. You do, you do. You have to take a platform that you may build on. Yeah. It's hard to just kind of I'm yeah. I'm not automatically, you know, create your own. I'm not saying everybody got like their own smartphone. Yeah. Or just your own exposure to tech.

50:37 That's unique because you'd be so asymmetric. Nobody you'd have very little interaction because you again come back to you have to have a common nomenclature. You have to have a common way of speaking and referencing these things because you have to work together. You're in a you're in a relationship with all these other people that are in the same ecosystem you are or in the same work life you are.

50:56 You've got to interact and build with them. If you're going to build anything, you have to build with others. Exactly. Yeah. And so it'd be interesting to start creating some of that language, you know, who knows, like how do you become a pioneer in the steering the narrative? I guess you'd have to have a platform to where people are listening.

51:16 Great podcast or something. Yeah. Where would one get that? Yeah. So yeah, you got to grow it in the, in the way that, that under the consumptive model. So you got to slip it in because. Right. Because right now the consumptive model is the is the overarching model. So in order to make this kind of progressive change, you kind of have to work within that structure, right?

51:38 You have to use the system to change the system. Yeah. Without getting without getting. Yeah. Yeah. Subsumed. Indoctrinated. Happy. Want to say it? Yeah. Indoctrination. That's that's such a such a word, isn't it? Yeah, man. I mean, from cradle to grave, right? We're indoctrinated into consumerism, and it becomes part of part of our nature, which, you know, is, is a symbiosis that we don't want.

52:03 Well, we don't want human beings locked into a life reality, symbiotic relationship with consumerism, is that it? That's another. That's a third leg, a symbiotic relationship pair. That's a symbiotic relationship with, our economic and corporate situation. Yeah. You can look at right now. You can look at the current superstructure as a series of, I call them industrial complexes, but you can call them symbiotic relationships as well, because, I mean, I think I think symbiotic relationship.

52:38 Allows for more participation and acknowledges that we do modify it on some level. Right. Yeah. An industrial complex is a is a is an entangled form of symbiosis for sure. Sure. It's just institutional. Yes. And and it implies more of a top down model. Whereas at least if we say the symbiotic relationship, we imply that we might have be able to create an agent of change that changes it from the bottom up.

53:09 Yeah. I really like the idea of naturally becoming a, an environmentalist based on awareness of the human condition, but at the same time it's like it has to be guided by, by by pure, by purity in terms of knowledge and truth. True. You know, because right now that domain is heavily polluted by the different. Yes. Mowers that be that term post-truth reality.

53:37 Reality. Post-truth reality is real. It's that's us. Let's let that be tomorrow's conversation is this post-truth reality. Because now we'll start the conversation with Truth Social. Oh, I got a research at some because I don't know much about what. It's just Trump's Twitter clump. I know it's front Twitter clone, but I want to find out some of the things that have been said and some of the popular ideas.

54:05 Well, the name the name says it all. Oh yeah, it's the he's the very arbiter of truth.

54:14 So, it yeah, we'll talk about that tomorrow. That's a great topic. Start. We'll start with Truth Social and another cool tune. You're going to introduce me. You said you had a song that you had in mind, too. So you can introduce me to some song that you had. I don't know if it was earlier. Cool. Well, that's it for today.

54:36 Oh.