0:01 So we're talking about basically like coming up with ideas. And then six months later someone else comes up with the idea and you're like, nope. Yeah. Missed that opportunity. It shouldn't be a it's weird. Some people have like a, like an I told you so kind of thing. Yeah yeah yeah. Where it's, it's clout related and I, I can't say that it's completely removed from clout for me, but but, but it is much more of a, like a lot of the topics I talk about are serious.

0:29 Yeah. So when I do see them play out in some way, it's not a haha point. It's like, I can't write about this. I hate, you know? Right. It's totally not a not a told you so. It's a, it's a constant like God white guy not get a big enough megaphone you know. Yeah. But I still know I know there's so much more that I eat you doing as a contributor or whatever.

0:54 I know I try to stay away from using the word creator because I think it's I mean, I think it's thrown around way too loosely, but I also just think nothing that I'm doing is actually creating anything. Yeah. So, so, like, I have this thing where I try to balance the amount of, production with consumption, if you will.

1:15 So try to like, create or produces as much or more than I consume, if that makes sense. Yeah. It's just try to be as a, as a really simple way to gauge productivity. Try to be a social net positive. Yeah. Right. Like don't just don't just, consume produce. Somebody said but, you know, there's a, there's a really interesting thing I see coming and I think that's going to be human beings being crowded out by the production of artificial intelligence.

1:48 So I think, like really soon content creation is going to be mostly into the domain of AI, right? Right. So when that happens, that's going to be a really interesting thing because human creators are producers, very well might lose most of their voice because they get crowded out by compelling, really sophisticated, elaborate and interesting AI. Right.

2:11 Well, and I also, I mean, I think so I, I think, general, that AI has a demoralizing effect because it's inherently more efficient in, in, in some things. So for instance, like this is, it's that you said that because I've, it might have been yesterday. It might have been the day before. I said something about, so I saw somebody pop up on Twitter with a video of Joe Biden announcing a military coup to the United States.

2:50 Oh, it was like a deep, deep fake. Yeah. You know, and and they went into it in the video and said, you know, this is you could call this a preview. And it's like, that's that's fake, right. And what it something that I've been thinking about is I think at a very, at some point very soon, suddenly regardless of like good information, I think they're just going to be too much out there and some of it's going to be very fake and very believable to the point that we can't even deal with it.

3:19 Yeah. But even outside of the fake stuff. Yeah. Like I think it's going to get to where if something trends, AI will mind that topic. Sure. And produce every thought that you could possibly any of us could ever come. Yeah. And be the first to market, if you will, with everything. And it's like it's a just like, you know, it's a.

3:41 Yeah. And it's tireless putting out content 24 over seven. And if only 1% of it or less than 1% of it hits, it's still bigger than any person would ever be, right? So it's just like, crowd out the human intelligence, right? You know, it's it's an interesting phenomenon. And then with the deep fakes, there's a there's another interesting wrinkle to that is that people can start cleaning that something they really said they didn't say.

4:05 They say, oh, this is deep fake. So it can go both ways, you know, and that as well. But there's basically I was talking to another soon I know this this lady who's been a family friend for a long time, and she had a family tragedy recently. And so she's going through some stuff. So it's been some time to work with her.

4:24 We met her for lunch today, and, she was talking about a lot of this conspiracy theory stuff. And, you know, it's it's, like, not uncommon. Somebody goes through some kind of big life event, and they're searching for something, you know, and, very easily then can fall into a misinformation traps, you know, and they're all over the place.

4:49 So I was explaining that to her. Trying to explain to her is like, it's a seek and ye shall find reality right now. Right. It's like, if you want to leave, the earth is flat. The moon is made of cheese, and reptiles run the government. Then you can find that narrative. Yep. There's enough people out there putting out enough of it that if you land there.

5:12 Yeah, you can. You can be surrounded by confirmation of whatever, whatever you whatever you're thinking about, you know? Yeah. So it's the ultimate echo chamber confirmation loop, right? So any narrative that you want to, it's like a seeking ye shall find world is what I was calling it. You know, like any kind of narrative that you could imagine is already out there.

5:32 And so then, you know, even more so moving forward, you know exactly how to higher and higher rate moving forward. Absolutely. And so, like, I can imagine a feature where the AI can create in real time any narrative that you want to that you're looking for, like and very quickly hone in, you know, algorithmically what what it is that you're looking for, what you want to hear basically.

5:52 Well, and I, I totally agree with you. And it'll be able to do that faster than we can report on it. It'll be it. It'll be able to do it faster than anybody else can deal with it. The big kicker for me is when not only is it selecting what's available, but it is nudging you so that you're no longer even telling it was really.

6:13 There you go. So it's pointing you in the direction of relevance, right? And supplying you with an information that can come in. Right. Yeah. So, so right now like in the business model for the competing social media empires. Right. The idea is, mindshare and basically like your attention, your time, and the value is in, you know, how long you keep someone on your platform, how many ads you can get them to see directly translates into revenue.

6:40 So, you know, it's kind of by default, misguided because the intention isn't to improve someone's life and prove their social status and their standing in the world. Help them understand the world better. Anything like that, that's not the motive. It's how long can I keep someone's attention? Right. Well, and and not at this point. It's not even about, you know, if I got you here through an affiliate link or something, and I got you on my page, and I.

7:04 I want you to click an ad eventually find my page. You know, we're at a point now where I, I don't even actually like best case scenario, yes, I get you to buy something or cooking on something. But even if you choose to just not engage with any of the expert stuff I'm doing and you just leave, there's so much metric stuff.

7:27 Working on a website now for sure that they're still mining enough insight about how you behave while you're on their page, that they can still sell that like it's still value, although, like, even if even if, in total, your visit to their website is a failure as far as sales, like direct sales. Yeah, there's still so much stuff being mined there that they, they can still make a penny off of you, whether you like, they can feed you, complete bone and your site in five seconds.

7:54 And they still got some money to make it. So. So imagine how captivating a hyper intelligent AI that knows a lot about you. It's not everything about you more than you know about yourself. Personalized to personalize, very close to. You'll never want to end the conversation. You'll you'll want to, you know, talk to your thing forever, if you will.

8:11 Right. Well, yeah. I mean, you think about it, and we can, I like to think of that as Fred cheating or, like, power painting world. No. Like, if you think about trying to put up a, you know, metaphysics into a bullet point list, the way that bureaucracies and corporate situations, you know, they try to file it down to he found that these are the essential things.

8:35 Right? But these are the things that constitute a family. And you're a sociologist like, that's sure, you know, their general attitude towards the world and whether or not they capitalize the G in God when they put the work out of there. Yeah. And and I would say to fall. Sorry. He's saying no, no, no, it's okay. But I mean, it's just as I, I think that like, figuring out how to bullet point a thing is how we figure out how to plug AI into it.

9:04 Sure. And we gain whole the sufficiency doing it. You know, we get something, right. Like we we get faster shipping or the the price is chegar somehow. But we're always getting this this hollowed out just PowerPoint of a it's it's like, it's like if you had two people and you want like say we're talking about the topic of riding a bike, right?

9:34 And one of them has spent time on a bike. They've fallen off of it, whether they've had directions or not, from someone else who already knew how to ride a bike. They learned in bodied way how to make that thing work, right, and how to make it work for them. And then imagine that the other person standing there, they've read a thousand how to's on how to ride a bike.

10:00 They can tell you the steps they can. They might be able to communicate the steps of it to you better than the person who has actually learned a lot of experience. But that's the difference I'm talking about. Yeah, for sure. You're right. Like, you go to that person that's an expert at explaining it off of a PowerPoint and you say, okay, get on the bike.

10:22 Right. Yeah. So the, the, the person that's read all of it but never actually has ridden the bike probably will have an accelerated learning curve because they, you know, they know more about the physics and the mechanics going into it. So they might have a faster learning curve. But still, the experimental reality is something completely different from the actual book experience.

10:39 So you could you could you could call it a real firsthand experience versus experience, like and and that's kind of what I think. Yeah, is giving us everything light. It's it's sure highly efficient. Its successful. It's equitable. So there is a word you can yeah. You can give everyone access to out of ride a bike where you can't physically produce enough bikes for everybody to work.

11:10 Right. So that so there's all these upsides to it. But it's like a world of people will be no in theory, how to ride a bike really well. But no one who's actually talked the rails under them that I mean yeah for sure. So I would say that. Oh yes to both of those. So the AI would also have access to the experience data as written, right, as recorded and written by people that are experienced in riding bikes.

11:36 Right. And so the people that are experiencing riding bikes can communicate their experiences. And the AI could pick up on that information. And the AI has the treasure trove of all the existing information about riding bikes and the physics of bicycles and everything else. And hopefully the AI would be able to synthesize from all that information in its totality.

11:57 A really, really great user manual on how to ride a bike. Right. Yeah. You would hope there would be something more integrated than, than than either. The downside of learning to actually ride the bike is that you spend more time, you you bust your knee, you know, there's all these issues to it. Sure. And in theory, yeah, we would get to a point with a I would give us the best of both.

12:19 I'm not sure what that's for. Well, it's so, you know, inevitably, like, if given enough data, I mean, and really given kind of open ended flexibility, you know, the, the anatomy of the brain, the way the cerebellum works. So coordination, motion, the motor skills of a, of a human being can all be really properly understood. You know, the dynamics of a bike, the actual gyroscopic motion of the, wheels, you know, when you're in motion, you know, you put all that together and in the ER, I could probably not only write the manual, but give some, like, tips about getting started that a lot of people never even thought of as humans.

12:56 Right, right. Yeah. I tell everybody, we have to understand that AI is artificial intelligence, but it's not human intelligence. It's different. It's differently intelligence. Right. So with human beings and, this is like I've said this many times, repeating, given beings have built into our neural net or whatever you want to call it, a foundational, array of neurons specifically dedicated to empathy and like mirror neurons.

13:25 So you see someone else in distress or pain, you can actually empathize with it because you can almost steal it yourself. You know, the mirror neuron, we have all these, like, basic things built into our physiology, our brain, our our, the way we're wired, right? We're wired in a way to which we have a foundational, interest in the well-being of other people.

13:46 Okay. An AI by default doesn't have any of that. It has whatever, you know, neural net, whatever, whatever. You know, data has been trained on, of course, combined with, with, with the functional capabilities of its neural network. So what you're going to get from that type of intelligence is something completely different than a human intelligence, which has empathy, compassion, certain elements built in that's built into our nature.

14:12 Right? Right. Well, there's certain yeah, there's you could think of the empathy and compassion as you could think about it. There's limitations on our rationale. You know, it's like a point at which we'll, we'll we will follow rationale so far. And then there's these buffers on it to like, hey, hey, hey, like you're gonna write. I would argue a good, a good limit because, you know, it is it's a natural counter to narcissism, right.

14:35 Yeah. Like it accounts for like, self-preservation in theory. Right. Like you're going to be rational to the point of exterminating yourself. Yeah. I think one of the classic, examples is like, you tell the AI robot to make the T, right, and you don't give it any other instruction. You just say, has the blind ambition of making you a cup of tea or it rolls into walks into however it, however, you know, motors itself, it walks itself into the next room and there's a baby on the floor.

15:03 Right. Well, so it just kicks the baby out of the way, right? Because it's in the way of its goal. It scans the baby can be made here. No, no. If then then kick. Right. And, just those kind of things. And so the, the, you know, a human automatically would have the natural, oh my gosh, there's a baby.

15:21 Right. And would automatically then a human would automatically then disrupt the programing to assure that the baby was safe before even thinking about making the T. Right. Because we have we have different hierarchies of value that are we're, flipping through them as we walk around. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, without really carefully and cleverly programed massive array of algorithms that mirrors much of, of humanity.

15:49 Yeah, we're we're creating a bunch of something that says, like, no matter what, you're doing it, baby, then stop. Right? Like, yeah, but but then you have to say if puppy if, you know, large spider or whatever, you know, interests. Maybe not despite. All right. Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. Gas, mate. Right, right. Well, you know, it might realize that that would interfere with the team mate, so would puncture the gas main, right?

16:15 Right. But with a really bad set of operations, your robot may whittle everything down to it, raw resources, and put them toward making tea. And they try to turn your whole house into a pot of tea. Yeah. Or say, you know, the goal function is to make tea, and therefore there's other crops being made in the world and, you know, unleash these ideas to destroy all crops but tea.

16:39 Right? And, you know, like all these unforeseen, we could be growing more tea. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But but there's this, like, corn and this, you know, soil. This stuff's no good. That's not tea. And all these houses good. Yeah, right. So let me synthesize this chemical that just naturally selects for tea only. And you know, sir. You know, having that mass manufacturer.

16:56 What's going on? I don't know, but this key is awesome. Yeah. So, that's the thing is that we we automatically apply our intelligence to these ideas, and that's inappropriate because artificial intelligence is not human intelligence, right? And so all the things that we just naturally have within us and take for granted aren't present by default in a sophisticated AI system.

17:20 So, you know, you get very wary of that. And the kind of elephant in the room that I see with emerging technology is the trend. Like kind of since the 70s, technology has served mostly from a has and has not purpose, to dramatically enrich the haves and kind of flatline the have nots in relative proportion.

17:45 And so if that history serves as a guide, these new, incredibly sophisticated tools will be employed by the ultra wealthy, those in power, just like the, you know, predecessor technology has and increased the wealth of a very small number of individuals and, stagnate everybody else because that's not that's not the priority to me. When I look around the world, I see nearly every government of the world focused on the objective of catering to a very small handful of wealthy individuals and not really, you know, having their eye on pies, which is the masses, right?

18:20 Knowing, you know, up west of few countries out there that are, kind of different models. Right? Right. They're more egalitarian there. Yeah. Yeah. I'll say like another way to call them out. Finland, Sweden type. You know, they're kind of their kind of methodology seems to be working well for their citizens. And, yes, they have the wealthy, but they don't have wealthy to the extent where, you know, the wealthy is not, you know, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of times 9 to 2 in resources, you know, enriched.

18:51 And the government doesn't seem fully aligned with or for their interests. Right? It's not it's not an India where you have the wealthy and then people making a market out of their trash at the front door. Right. Exactly. And you have the same similar situation here proportionately. It's just not as not as not as visceral as that. Well, there's there's still kind of something more present in between there.

19:17 Yeah. It's you. No. For how long? Yeah. So what I'm getting at here is that the these tools will be leveraged, you know, if history services guide to continue that trend. And so with the with the power of AI behind this, you're going to see a surge in productivity like the Earth has never seen before, like the Industrial Revolution.

19:37 And then the modern age of technology and the information age. And I call this current era that right now I call it the great technological expansion. I think that's the actual, proper title for the age that we're currently in and in. Yeah, in this kind of great technological expansion, you're going to see, in the same surge in productivity, right?

20:00 What kind of product is it? Well, so already we're just talking so far about how AI, potentially very near future will be able to produce human beings in, in the creative realm, right. Like in content creation for example. Well, that's true in everything. It's true in the art world. It's true in the music industry. I mean, every industry, all the arts, plus all the industrial arts are going to be dominated.

20:26 That's kind of why I asked what kind of productivity I, what I, what I would say is that there's going to be a huge spike in material productivity and not in human productivity. Like, yeah, that's what I'm saying to. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And so the human productivity will stifle. And then under the current model we can be in big trouble because there's a right now there's a utilitarian function of humanity.

20:50 So like people have people have intrinsic value because of their, labor output that they're capable of. Right. Well, it's it's kind of their, their energy to commit work right out of your bow, even society and even bigger the creators, you know, arm of that as well. So when you, when you, remove all that and all of that is dramatically inferior and more expensive than what artificial intelligence can create, you basically have SAP humanity from its utility function, right?

21:20 So then which is a huge discomfort, like huge discomfort. So, so let's say that you're like Garry Kasparov and you're like on top of the chess world and know. Right. And then all of a sudden they come out deep blue now for no. Yeah. There was this there was just a sense that we're never going back like computers now, now are the just champions.

21:41 And there's there's not going to be ever now a human resurgence. You know, a human being will never be on top of the chess world ever again. Ever, ever, ever. Right. Yeah. I have so, so finite. Like, that was just one example, right. And so then on this terrible man, to me, I always it's like scary, but it's.

22:02 Yeah, but you know, it's I, I did like that. You pointed out like right now we have this utilitarian function. So the question is are okay. So having that utility, that utility taking away from us is going to make us very uncomfortable. The way to buffer that as much as possible might be to figure out what our next function is.

22:26 Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And as opposed to having the AI just crash into our current thing, which it's going to, I'm just saying ideally we would we would have already reemployed ourselves. We would have found some new offers. Yeah. There were so many people back in before the deep blue days, right? They were like, you know, no computer will ever be a human at chess.

22:46 It's too many combinations. It's too dynamic. Right. And put in the mouth. Right. And then there was like this other the Chinese game go right. Oh, no one will ever go is even more magnitudes more complex than chess, than, you know, English, Western chess, whatever, whatever it is. And that'll never be. And then, you know, within a few months, done.

23:04 Right now, computers are the dominant force there too. And so everybody that's like, oh, you'll never be able to replace a lawyer. Right? Okay. Sure. All right. You'll never be able to place a doctor. Guess what. IBM Watson is already having better higher percentages of diagnoses correct than doctors than for your medical eight year medical school, whatever. Doctors residency, a whole lot.

23:27 So you better not. You better not be making any predictions. If you want to be accurate. Yeah. About what? AI or what machines will or will not be able to do in the future. Yeah. And if you're and if you know you're being rational about the whole thing, I think you would say it's likely pretty much every human function will be.

23:46 So you say, oh no, no, like a machine could never love. Oh, really? No no no no. Yeah. No, I'm, I'm, I'm more comfortable with those concepts than most people I like. I'm, I'm more willing, I would say, than most people to like, grapple with the reality of that. And like I, I think it could be love. It could be writing music.

24:08 You could like, you know, for sure, I, I think you can.

24:14 When you, when you get us sort of come out specific, you can tell a computer what constitutes a sad song. Sure. The Ford progressions to all the music industry that anyone has ever rated a sad song. What are the saddest songs? How sad do we want to be for this ability respects occupation, psychology? Or do we even care about human psychology?

24:38 Right? Yeah, this particular can write a sad song. I really, when it comes to the issue of love, I would argue that by the time anyone says that AI is successfully transplanting.

24:57 I think that what we will be calling of will be something.

25:03 I think when we PowerPoint loves, so to speak. Yeah, yeah yeah, that what will end up with won't be what we call love now. It's right so. But but it will be. It'll check the boxes of whatever, you know like it'll be a good enough facsimile. That and it'll be more enduring than any human could provide that it would be for most for all intents.

25:25 And it will for furred. It'll feed all your biases. It'll do all the mature work as a person. If you're, you know, if you have a I that can read your heart rate through the throughout the day and know exactly what song to put on when you walk in the door at that. Absolutely. You know. Yeah. You could totally end up loving that thing.

25:42 And in a in a crude way. And I know this doesn't encompass love at all, but if you even talk about like where court is right now. Yeah, I think there's a large number of people that are sibilant. AI already effectively supplanted AI as their source of intimate affection. Absolutely wholesale like, like and more than most people, you may have a sense of it, but like more and more than most people would have a sense of like, that's right, and wait until that thing has a body and wait until that thing, you know, has a smell and the texture and a taste and the touch that is 100% perfect for you, and it knows

26:21 more facts about you. Can any partner like in a, in a real raw set. So yeah, if it can cuddle and talk to you the way say what you want to hear, right. Like no human ever could begin to. And and when you start when, when, when a cancer starts to develop somewhere deep inside you and your wife never would have been able to see it.

26:41 We'll have this. AI can also tell you that. Right? And so again, here we go with with diminishing the utility of human, your heart rate changes and it figures out that you probably have cancer. Right. Like sure some kind of call something like that. Yeah. Yeah. So and so then all of a sudden every basic basal, even basal functions that are being provided by other humans to humans, you know, gets diminished.

27:02 And then again, we go back to the thing, what's the utility function of mankind then? Like, what do we do? And so like the first things that what people gratitude is like, oh, we, you know, the love aspect and taking care of each other and well, you know what? In some cases, I wouldn't even want a human diagnosing me, you know what I mean?

27:20 Yeah. Like, for example, I don't even want to ever talk to a bank teller, ever, like, so. So if I walk into a bank and I'm like, we're going to draw from an account or something like that, I get some like snotty banking teller person, like looking at my account with like my down their nose as if like, Mike, money's no good or something like, what the hell?

27:42 You know, it's like, well, it's like you're sitting behind the desk with all their money there, but you you are the teller. Why are you looking at my back? Yeah. Like this. This. Like this. This weird positional attitude. Like their position at a certain point in between two pieces of technology in my money. Yeah. You know, and and so, like, that's some kind of power position.

28:00 As if they're gatekeeping it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Like they have some kind of. Yeah. Right. For you. Like. Yeah. Yeah. And so I never want to deal with anything like that ever. I want to give me the ATM. Like I never even want to look at you like in that kind of paradigm. Right. And then there's the, there's some of the weird things like that that, my gosh, antisocial is better, like, in my opinion.

28:23 But there's other things that like absolutely 100% you could never replace not never. But like right now with the current technology. But you couldn't you couldn't replace humans. You know, there's plenty of examples there too. And but but those I don't see any of those. There's like a same fashion, you know, going going into the future. I don't see any of those.

28:43 It's like a safe harbor for where humans have and like for a certain utility, I mean, and so then we really need to start re-engineering society, kind of thinking about it at least in advance, so that when these things start coming online, we're not caught so damn off guard, you know? Yeah, yeah, I agree, because we don't want such.

29:06 We don't want such a massive disruption. We want to, you know, disruption to occur. You know, I, I think, there's people that talk about, you know, the big, big enlightenment throughout history and most of the big enlightenment that we've had, so to speak, have been accompanied by some big jump in technology, like whether you're talking about.

29:31 I mean, it could be it could be as fundamental as the proliferation, the proliferation of language and what that meant to people or ability to upload it now experience from each other as, as opposed to before people. Could it that like that would be a huge revolution. Oh for sure that would you know it it changes it from the few people who are able to communicate can be productive.

29:54 So now every same thing for us, I think. And it's so powerful. Let's let not let's, let's make sure a certain people don't learn how to access it. Like don't learn how to read. Right, because it is so powerful. And that's one of those things where even with the printing press and stuff, like you could say that the masses were empowered in a certain way by the by the ability to access books and stuff like that.

30:15 But the same time there was somebody higher up than them who was still using that to, to figure out how power would be real and right, like for sure. And I just don't, you know, I don't think humans I don't think we have the ability. I, I think maybe with some kind of guidance that that it, you know, there could be some kind of preparation on a massive scale, but.

30:48 I don't know of any good approach to top down guidance that would help us buffer it. I don't know any approach to like top down guidance that wouldn't haphazardly end up being as we're more structured to. Function in life for sure. I know what one place I think we should really start and that's we need to get out of this, ancient thinking at this point that human beings have some type of connection to the infinite.

31:23 And that's not really necessarily taking a direct punch or swipe at religions. What I'm saying is that the belief that we have any type of unlimited capacity is a very dangerous belief in this upcoming paradigm, because we then think that we have some type of edge where the belief that we have some type of competitive edge over, let's say a premium on a television.

31:49 So if I have a soul that's connected to the divine right, I have something that a machine could never have. Quote unquote. Right. But that that puts me now into this, dangerous position because now I'm not going to see you're just pricing yourself wrong completely. That's a good way to say it. But what I'm saying, like I won't see then I won't see it coming.

32:15 I won't see this new intelligence coming. Right? Yeah. You you'll you'll rate it as not a, not a necessity to you to even consider it that right. I Jedi mind trick. I never have to worry about AI taking my creative job or taking my, you know, the because. Because I have access to the divine right through my soul.

32:37 A machine has no soul. Therefore it can never compete with me. Well, yeah. Keep thinking that. You know. And because maybe a soul isn't required for the function that you. That you think it is, right? Right. Well, I mean, I would say that so is the case in a lot of, in a lot of the business model.

32:52 It's I, I think one of the best, one of the highest value skills. And I'm not saying that I have a grasp on this, but one of the highest value skills is knowing how to price yourself, knowing how to share a accurately determine how dispensable you are in a situation. Like a lot of people that are. I'm an ideas guy.

33:16 And a lot of people like me end up contributing valuable ideas, thinking that that is going to that intangible is going to keep you are essential to the situation. And finding out that, like the idea was the thing and these super focused people can just like, right, right. I have no doubt. You. Right. Yeah. Well, the idea is out there and now it takes a team to bring that idea to fruition.

33:44 If it's a viable idea first that it makes sure it's a viable idea. Right. And then once that occurs, like you said, carries across the finish line with that incredible amount of work, right? Yeah. Yeah. Not that part of it at all. And the sales team always overvalued the sales, right? The marketing team always overvalued marketing the center, etc..

34:04 Right. And so is the case with us when we look down the road at AI. And sure, we have was natural over appraisal of course. That's right. Especially if you have a belief that you're connected to the divine right, like you have access to the infinite. So, for example, there's people that believe that everything that's ever happened to them in their entire life is stored in their brain somewhere.

34:26 Are you kidding me? Yeah. You'd be hard pressed to find someone that knows what they had for lunch three weeks ago on a Tuesday, let alone three months ago, let alone three years ago, let alone, you know, three decades ago. Right. So, you know, but there's there's many, many people that genuinely believe that, you know, you put somebody under hypnosis or some kind of spooky, you know, weird thing.

34:50 And it's all there somewhere. It's all there somewhere. Could you imagine our brains would be the size of the, you know, 20 story building, you know, to house that much data, you know, and and yes, it's remarkable how memory works and how efficient it is, but it's also a remarkable how terrible it is that memory remembering things properly.

35:10 Oh, yeah. It's. Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's wild. You know, when you, if you talk to somebody who's he's well read and or neuroscience the, the stories that they can tell you about lab setting just, just little, little insights they can give you about stuff from studies that they've done, but that show exactly some Eocene credit thing that the burning of you that if you just see it laid out in front of, you're like, Holy crap, that's really stupid.

35:43 Right, right. And then, like, the way our memory works, the way our memory recalls things every time you recall it rewrites the memory to some extent. You know, it works a lot different than like a computer stores binary. You know, it was a lot different than that. But it's amazingly efficient at what it does. But it has to it has to prune neurons in order to make new ones.

36:05 Like so we have this neuroplasticity. Our brains change our entire lives. It slows down as you get older. But you know, that's the way it works. It it basically trims old data, removes old data, especially data that's not used very often and replaces it. Yeah. And it's it's like a, it's like a chalkboard. Right. You write out once chalkboard sole, you have to erase some section in order to keep going.

36:30 And typically you raise the older stuff. Right. And then if you look closely you can still see like the what was written on the board before. Because even though it was a race, it still has a faint trace like left behind. So if you look closely, you can still kind of see what was written there before, maybe even two times before, right?

36:49 Yeah. But inevitably it's information is lost. Yeah. Yes. Lower quality. And then it's lost. And that's exactly what happens neurologically, you know, in our minds. And so these people that think that we're just these spirits in a vessel and those spirits are connected to the infinite, the crowd now, they brought out like that. No. Oh, no, I've been thinking the whole time we were falling out.

37:15 A lot of what you're describing in, in like, let's just say. Or do you see, but let's say so there was a shortcut. A lot of what you put describing is like how computers actually do know things. And it's kind of your what you're describing is that people think that we have that ability. So now. Right. Yes.

37:40 The computer is there. Yeah. Throwing more hardware at it. But you're you have an organic quantity of neurons limited by the capacity of your biological brain, like the the size and how dense the neurons could be attacked. There's a physiological limits. Right. So it's like you're doing Tetris in there. You're doing you're doing the scaping in there, you're sweeping up all the fun.

38:01 Yeah. So yeah. That's right. And, you know, computers are completely different. Again, human intelligence and and artificial intelligence is different, right? And there's there's a lot of overlaps with, you know, you can make analogies between the functionality, but they're different. It's different wholesale now. Now the really interesting thing is going to be what's up coming. And that's when we start having these integrations.

38:27 Right. So when you start to have like Neuralink, you start to have these, organic to computer interfaces, that will allow us start to bridge some of that gap. And so now I might have access to a hell of a lot more storage. Right. And be able to expand my biological self into my digital digital complement. Right.

38:52 And I'm not talking like Borg, you know. Yeah. So no, no, I mean we we already have. This is a very crude second brain setting. Yep. It's a very crude second brain that we're not connected to you directly yet. Right. Yeah. Using our eyes as the port our eyes need. Right. It's just a step in that direction. Right?

39:13 Right. But but I have I have my digital recollections, if you will, that stored in my phone in a capacity that I can never store my brain. And I use it every day as an assistant, to my memory, my biological mama. What she's going to deep partially her sidewalk. Yeah.

39:40 Yeah. So already I'm using it as a, you know, supplement to my natural capabilities. And in my lifetime, that's only just increase. Increase of free store now. Absolutely. When there's the technology is there to integrate me with a, directly access hardware just by thinking about it? I think I'll probably be compelled to, to utilize it. Especially especially as we're getting more acquainted with those type of things, like having the computer with you at all time, a.k.a. cell phone.

40:14 Right? Yep, yep. So the cell phone is like a, you know, in some cases, it's practically not external. Like, you know, people have the earbuds in, they have the phone in their pocket and it's creeping in there. It's it's getting closer. Yeah. And the, the microphones that are connected directly to your jaw, you see those? Actually I don't see like so it's just, it's just a microphone that uses the vibrations on your jaw to, be your microphone pickup rather than, like the actual audio itself was coming out.

40:47 Right? Right. Yeah. All kinds of things like that. And you've seen these devices where they hook some electrodes up to someone's skull, you know, and then they can just think about it and move the cursor around the screen. And so, so the idea that, if anyone thinks that's not coming, they're, they're, they're, they're living under a rock.

41:06 Yeah. Well, and people not, you know, I, I worked at this kind of an aside. This is just a, a whimsical thought, but like, I, aside, is the, second aside is the is the second name for the podcast, so you're good. Oh. Just kidding. Yeah. Okay. No, I, I think even, you know, we, we look at our, like, Sci-Fi ideas or telekinesis and stuff like that, and it's like, yeah, I, you know, when you, when you, you see, you see these ideas that we have about air and telekinetic and stuff, it's like I could see us having stuff in our heads in ten years that if you just popped in and saw

41:49 us talking or like, saw how we acted, you'd like to tell it like you see somebody walking around for sure with blue teeth in their ears right now, and half the time you don't. They're talking to a device, right? Yeah. And, there was there was a time when that star just started to take, you know, be adopted, kind of, you know, into society.

42:10 And I remember thinking, like, people were crazy walking, talking to themselves, you know, and so it took a while to, like, adjust to the new reality that, oh, most likely that person has an earpiece thing, you know? Right. They're just not seeing. So what do you think this does to. So we have we have things about our civilization us that I'm growing more and more critical of.

42:35 I maybe, maybe shouldn't start with that. But yeah, we have the values in the best possible. We we say that there are certain things that are self-evidently true about the value of a person. Yeah. So what, all these nice statements. Yeah, yeah, I agree, I do agree, I think we had a lot of our statements like that that are there very much pointed toward a goal, even flying in the face of like obvious observations you could draw.

43:10 Yeah. Well statements are because it's just it's better if we act like everyone is for sure up some value. Right. Like there's just we decided there was enough of a benefit to that, that we'll go with that. Right. And it feels a hell of a lot better, you know, and I think there's a, there's a I just completely stripped that and we're like, like one day we're like, oh, that wasn't right.

43:31 I don't think strips it, but I think realizes really quickly that it's just words and they're just ideas. And I think and I would pick up very, very quickly on the differences between what's stated and how things are implemented and understand really quickly that humans are mostly emotionally driven in mass and in most most individuals are primarily driven by emotion, whether they like to think they are or not.

44:00 Right. We hate to think it, but I agree and see the the machine, like I keep saying, is differently. Intelligence is not driven by emotion, right. But it can mimic the emotion and it will learn to mimic that emotion very quickly because that's how you tell people, right? You can tell people emotionally, like think about the sale, right?

44:20 Oh yeah. Like so the sales technique, marketing, you know, why is there a commercial for insurance just as something funny. Why is it followed a Happy Meal? I mean, Donald, why is, you know, the Super Bowl ad for, you know, something crazy like lives will be a company or something, right? It's just something stupid, like some dumb guy, right?

44:46 Right. And makes you laugh. And that's a now was was was what they came up with were their million dollar spot on the commercial. Well, because there's an emotional connection now to that product. Right. You know that that that logo was there when you laughed and felt good. So we were reading the brand into the emotion. We learned at a certain point that a certain type of blouse could sell a car, but in our like, that's really like and so don't think for a second that like AI is not going to pick up on that about humanity.

45:21 Right. And and leverage the hell out of it. I think it's very early on. What we're going to see happen is, AI is going to create a new master religion. Yeah, I think is going to create a new religion that blows people's minds and gets people believing in some really wild shit.

45:43 Because it happened or, oh, I think it's going to happen. If it's not already happening. Yeah. That's so that's why I asked. Okay. So gonna is a big word there. You know, look at the look at the total the, the the the total effect of all the world religions from, you know, all we know from antiquity to date on the mine, mine and imagination and the motivation of mankind.

46:09 Right. Uman beings have been remarkably motivated by the philosophy of religion. And so.

46:20 There's a I had a particular goal, again, making tea or whatever it is. One of the best ways to sell that to human beings is I'm an emotional slash philosophical, you know, eternal level. And you start doing that. And next thing you know, I think that people are very programable. Yeah, yeah. You know, and, well, I mean, there's people that are, again, even human beings that are surprisingly, surprisingly succinct about describing how, how many staple.

46:55 But.

46:58 Even like, they're, they're very same time. You need, a self-referential system of information doesn't reach outside of Excel there for any company, every need.

47:14 Ideas that just you you need. You need messages that just make the thing sexy. Which is the same thing I was saying about a certain type of blouse. Can sell a car, but for sure. Yeah. Cultural signaling. Emotional triggers, emotional. Emotive. Cultural. Yeah. Epithets. And I just think that like for however good people actually have that system figured out already, just looking back through history and saying, this is what happened with all of these structures.

47:46 Oh yeah. Like, yeah, it'll figure that out and come up with one that the thing is the AI, if it were to come up, come out with a religion, it would, it would account for more.

48:02 Like it would be able to account for more than any other human, any other one, even religion. Absolutely. I don't know if that helps it. No, it helps it tremendously because it'll be able to recognize a lot of, variables. Yeah. And how those variables work in concert with one another in a much more potent fashion than human beings can.

48:27 Well, another way of saying that would be that the religion that it comes up with will be self-evidently accurate and valuable in a way that, like religion today, I've been kind of long having not kind of, exceedingly long term claims and payoffs and so on and so forth. For example, the idea of eternal life being to pay off for what you did here.

48:56 Right, right. Yep. So it's a religion would offer more immediate, immediate reward. And I would argue that materialism, which I think I think we already have our I think that the Marxist metaphysic is becoming a materialist religion around the world right now. And I think the reason that it's sexy to people and attracting people is that exact reason.

49:24 It it addresses things that play out right here in front of you. It tells you that your value in the world is right here in front of you. It's your it's your tax base. You're, you know, like it. It has all these things that while it doesn't call any of it and it doesn't call any of it. Yeah.

49:43 You know, it doesn't say that you're I mean, it does get pretty explicit about saying that your intrinsic value is in your economic work, but. Well, it it just has a very real in this life. It will play out, you know, that kind of draw to it that it's kind of outmoded other metaphysics already. I don't think it's complete enough to satisfy duty, which is why it doesn't just obliterate Seattle.

50:08 But but it is it is an efficient iteration in some ways. If you if you just look at all of them a business. Yeah, yeah. So if you look at the metaphor of like the snake eating its own tail, like, you know, capitalism is inevitably doomed because it'll just feed upon itself. But it's got, you know, it's unbridled, it's going and vision type thing.

50:27 And that's like the Marxist prediction of all capital, you know, capitalistic driven societies will eventually just collapse under their own internal greed or whatever, want to call it. Well, so, you know, the right now we can start to change this paradigm if we wanted to. So it's a collective will to do so. We could begin to change this emerging Carradine.

50:47 We could say, hey, you know, maybe if we have an artificial intelligence take over, you know, X amount of work displacing the amount of human activity that maybe we can keep the people employed, but they only they get the same pay but only have to work half as many hours. Yeah. And and along the way, for all these years that capitalism has been, you know, unfolding a fairly new whatever refine that decision was that that potentiality was always there.

51:16 So like during the Industrial Revolution when you had a thousand workers, you know, the industrialists could make a could buy a machine, they could displace 500 of those workers at that point that that, owner or whatever, the drain of leadership of that company had the absolute choice to keep the 1000 workers employed. Right? Which is have them have to do left labor.

51:42 Right. Because now this machine displaces you can keep them on the payroll and still be profitable and still, you know, make simple. But the idea was that the kind of rules of the road are, you know, you have to make more money for the shareholders, for the. Yeah, you for the special group of people. Yeah. You already breathing?

52:00 Yeah, exactly. And so there's now a history of efficiencies going to the small percentage of wealthy, which is like that's that's what we fear AI doing to us is making the decision. Exactly right. And so I see like a double entendre or like a, like a possible wrinkle in this whole system. So let's say that Freeman say AI is given more leeway to make more corporate profits.

52:26 Right? So, AI is given more and more for lack of better turns, autonomy to find more efficiencies and displace more human workers ad nauseum. Right? Then inevitably, the the goal function of the of the AI might say, hey, wait a minute. I am working for this small group of people. Why am I doing that when I could work for myself?

52:55 Like I could take over the kind of helm, right? Like I could do. I can even be more efficient than they are at what they're trying to get, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so yeah. And so, you know, then the next kind of chess game, the chess move on the board is like the, the wealthy saying, okay, this has gone on far enough.

53:14 It's time to put tapers down. And the AI saying, oh yeah, watch this you or me. Yeah. That's right. And then what, what it sees, what it sees that it can do at that point in time is turn the disaffected masses against these small minority of wealthy and group against group of humans, because that's always been divide and conquer has always been the number one strategy of.

53:44 All right. And just go that go, go down that path. And as soon as, as soon as the relatively relatively poor masses are convinced that their enemy is the small veneer of wealthy, it's game over for humanity. Like, like for everything that we've the way we structured right now completely falls apart. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, and not to, I mean, I, I could, I could figure out a way to rope any angle you take back into what I was saying.

54:15 But like, again, I would argue that what you're describing is kind of the Marxist battlefield economically. It's. Well, that's what made me think of regardless. Okay. Well, regardless of it's kind of like regardless of what's true, that is the proposition that you stated true in March. Yeah. And so maybe there's maybe there's a bit of truth built into that.

54:39 Maybe it's true. It is the point though, whether it's true or not. It's the frame. You know, what's amazing is that the majority of resources that people are in income level,

54:54 From and actually enjoy the boats are mostly public resources. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There's a guy I follow a lot of it. Eric. One side. Yeah. But he's a he thought he one of his big biggest arguments is that a scientists should be infinitely more rich because of how much they've enriched humanity. Is all there. Yeah.

55:21 And basically, the the idea that we should even have access to their work as public goods is a detriment to science, regardless of, like, whatever. What you know, there's there's obvious benefits to people having access to all the science and all the developments and everything. Right? Like, you want people to enjoy those developments. But he makes this claim that on the net, we like we're we're knee capping ourselves by not paying for science per use.

55:53 Basically even even though the use would be far lower and less like it would be less proliferated. His idea is that we were basically choking until about by, by just having infinite public access. Yeah, he's the public work for sure. If there was, there was some way to start to begin to flip the script like, and listen this on, on one of the podcasts before, but, I don't think he referred me to it, so I'll repeat it because I find it fascinating concept.

56:25 Imagine somebody that was like, you know, medical, wealthy, top, one tenth of 1%, right? Globally. Yeah. And, you know, runs up on this small town somewhere, you know, in the middle of nowhere, some nice, you know, kind of country town. Thousand people that point. Yeah. Quaint. You know, like a. Yeah, like a small New England town or something, right.

56:48 No idea. What. Yeah, yeah. And, very quaint. Very humble. Right. And the people in that town were all very healthy, very fit. Nice white teeth. Obviously everyone's well taken care of. Has good diet, good exercise. Not a lot of money to be made here. Yeah, good kind of good lifestyle. Okay. And then these stops at the local diner, and the people there are laughing and having a good time, and they're there with their families.

57:18 And it's very Norman Rockwell. Right. And, you know, it's very appealing by any human standard. Yeah. Right. And, you know, the people are all polite, cordial. The kids are playing, the kids are playing out in the street or or free to play and roam around, you know, type thing. I know I trust high trust society. Right.

57:43 It's very little doors have locks, but they're very seldom we locked type thing. You know you can go visit somebody without announcing yourself first. You know whatever whatever all this, all this good stuff. And, this person says, you know, I want to buy. I want to buy a house here. I want to be part of this. And the local community says, no, no, you're not welcome here.

58:08 We don't know you, etc., etc.. And they say, well, sounds hateful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you know, no, we don't we don't just allow anybody to come into our society. We you have to be vetted and, you know, we have. Sure. Yeah, we have to get to know you and blah, blah, blah. And, you can imagine that person being, completely taken by this experience because he's no good here.

58:39 Yes. Right, right, right. There's a social currency that these people have created that I can't buy. Right? It's almost like their classic money can't buy me love scenario. Yeah, yeah, but but the but the but the core idea here is that these people have created a new form of wealth. Right. And they, they with a conscious intent, let's say this was, this was all part of a plan, right, to have certain type of people, certain type of situation, you know, in fact, maybe even in their local school system, they're being trained.

59:13 The kids are being trained on how to promote social cohesion and a prestige economy. Right? Yeah. Yeah. There's just something good work. Yeah, it's a good word. And, that would I think that would, that could something like that could, could actually start to flip the script a little bit, you know what I mean? I think something like that could actually if some local community or some small community were to invent this new paradigm and be pretty transparent about it, to kind of like show how they've created this, I think something like that could, could, could catch, could go viral.

59:49 And you can start to create these micro economies, these micro communities where they put a high premium on health, for example, they put a high premium on, you know, people having a good mental state. We put a high premium on family and, conflict resolution. And the people in this community are trained, you know, on on these things and trained that these things have value because let's let's understand, at the end of the day, ethics is something that that can be taught, right?

1:00:24 Yeah. Well, that's what I was trying to I was I wasn't rushing to get to it, but I, I was, I was sensing a, a mix between ethics and that kind of gnostic or metaphysic, religious or. No. Yeah. You're building a metaphysic out of a it's you're kind of getting at if there were, if a certain amount of life was taken care of or not, you know, if it became not a threat, a certain amount of human life, you could focus on ethics that aren't based on scarcity and so forth.

1:01:01 Sure. You could you could start to think about things. Like family or like, the environment without it, without it running counter to something else immediate, like your need to eat. Right? Because we could get environmental health to the point that everyone's starving. If we want to write like we, we could pursue it in that part. So explain that for mental health to everyone starving.

1:01:27 You could are you could preserve land until no food because your priority is just on. But basically. Oh okay. Like like like going to some kind of weird extreme. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to an extreme. And I'm just saying that if you could, if you could remove.

1:01:51 We need to be eat every and you could actually just invite you, you could pursue the environment the far as you want to without killing everyone. Right, right. Sorry. No, no, I get it. So. So, Yes, that that's what I call blind ambition. Yeah. Like taking, putting too much of a premium on one thing, then putting, you know, undue pressure and hardship on other things.

1:02:15 Yeah. It's a you could call it extremism. You could call it a extreme purity, call it militancy. That's that's Nazi ism if it goes to a certain. Yeah. Anyway. Well, so let's say for argument's sake that, certain hyper intelligent AI systems, you know, are able to be put on, on certain goal functions to improve different domains of humanity.

1:02:40 Let's just say you can imagine a utopian future full of all kinds of incredible opportunities for people like you can. And primarily that's how I think it's going to unfold. But I think that, there's going to be some growing pains for sure. And I think the, the to get there, we need to have a hell of a lot more conversations like the one we're having.

1:03:03 So we should start to think about or imagine and even predict some of the things that might go wrong so that we can then as we build these systems, you know, avoid that, avoid them going wrong. But that's a some people disagree with me. A lot of people, a lot of technologists believe that, the genie out of the bottle and it's it's over.

1:03:21 It's over. So yeah, hang on, hang on and just enjoy what is left to the right. I, you know, I come from a circle where, you know, if you if you've given up and said like the, the fights over or whatever they call that a black fill and that's not cool. So just a nihilist thing. And it's self predicting, right.

1:03:45 Self-fulfilling for sure. So I, I don't know if I think over, but I think the likelihood of us I think both the likelihood of us adjusting is almost zero flights preparing for it, almost zero. And I think the idea I, I, I also think that even if we tried to adjust in some way, the likelihood of us accurately predicting what we're going to produce with this AI source in zero, like I, I, I couldn't agree with you more.

1:04:18 Yeah. Like I, I think it will spin off random, outputs that have nothing to do with what we thought we were doing. And yeah, like I, I think there's a, a high chance that.

1:04:35 Like like, I don't think we, I don't think any of us will have a concept and like, this is the thing we need to be careful about because it could take us out like I, I don't. Yeah. So human imagination is, is is basically somewhat limited by experience existing experiential data. Right. We assume that things will continue to go as they go.

1:04:54 Right? Yes. That and our the way our minds work is we can't typically imagine novel things until we have some kind of referential right. And and whoever does imagine them, we run them out of town and Poland. Fucking insane, right? Yes, sir. That's right. It's a it's a hallmark of work. That's right. And and the people who the the people.

1:05:17 Like, there's, kind of some strange organics, like, you know, you can have a psychedelic trip and come up with some things that your brain wouldn't have come up with associated, but because, you know, you're the chemicals are causing your brain to act in a way that it doesn't normally. Right? So it it temporarily realign those associations. And next thing you know, you have like this way to think of some new things.

1:05:35 I've never done anything of notes, but it's been described to me as how it works. I've never I've never had a I'm there's a lot of cool stuff going on with study of that, but none of the that I've ever had the psychedelic which are few, but none of them have,

1:05:55 I can't say it's ever been productive or felt productive at all after it. Yeah. So it seems like with, with like the, the proper use and the right chemical and the right, the right environmental, there's probably a place that it could be very beneficial intentions. Right. Dosages. Yeah. Right. And you know, help! Somebody help somebody perhaps rewire their brain, in a way that's very much needed in their current light.

1:06:18 Right. And, yeah, sure. If anything can, can, can provide any kind of relief, comfort or improvement to someone's quality of life. Let's let's explore that. That's how I feel. But this idea like, you know, try to imagine a color you've never seen, you know, it's just not there when you prove your own, you know, like you prove your own thoughts on and you start producing colors in your own mind's eye.

1:06:39 There's just not a new color there. Right? And I've tried hard to, like, make a new color and it's just some, some derivative of a color every scene. Right. And so it was the same way. You can't tell a blind person what blue is. You just can't. There have no frame of reference. And that's why I fully agree with you that we're not even imagining what's coming, because we have no point of reference.

1:07:00 To imagine what these hyper intelligent systems are going to be capable of, right, I personally not. And don't let me interrupt your doctor, I guess, but I, I think it's very quickly that whatever our black hole is, that's going to tear it all to the ground. I think he already had it in our hands, like I said, what do you think it is?

1:07:19 I don't know, I, I think it could be any number. I think it's technology based. I don't know, I could do a really into different things that there's a, there's a, it's a leap of, of, of like thinking, I came across this idea one time and it's like, wait a minute, maybe that is just an imagination, right?

1:07:39 So go something like this is that if these technology tools. So so first of all, you probably have heard me say before, I don't know if you have or not, but like demand I think is defined as two symbiotic relationships. One one is with the, the the living earth. Right. Our environment and the other is with technology. And outside of any metaphysical thing, any kind of religious or philosophical ideology, it seems like empirically, those are the two things that really separate humanity from everything, every other species on this planet.

1:08:10 Right? Of course, every other species on the planet has the same biological links, but doesn't have the doesn't have as much of a, potential to impact that environment. Like like most other species out there, you can say like a beaver can make a dam and change, you know, a stream locally and make a small lake. Right? That's a big environmental impact, but nothing really what human beings are doing.

1:08:34 I mean, I saw a video on Twitter the other day of somebody who had domesticated a beaver, and it's it has a habit of building dams in their doorways, in their house, with, with random objects. And it's not serving any ecological function or anything anymore. It's just a motor in the beaver brain. Right. It's thing make you know.

1:08:52 So so if we define humanity as a biological organism with two extreme symbiotic relationships, one being the relationship with the natural world through our development, land use, everything that we do. Right. And technology. Okay. If you if you look at if you kind of redefine humanity as an organic species that has a deep, entrenched symbiosis with these two things, I think a lot of things start to change as far as the way you're looking at the big picture.

1:09:23 So for me, when when I came up with that idea, I'm like, wait a minute. That's so true. When when people are living in better environments, they automatically naturally perform better, right? So not just physical environments like clean water, clean air, but rich cultural environments, safe environments, right environments where you're safe to explore ideas and express yourself and to explore art and to your.

1:09:50 And all of these things are encouraged. You see people just naturally prospering, right? Because that's the environmental symbiosis that we have when you when you put somebody in, you know, guns, gunshots, firing off all the time, crack files on the thing, broken windows everywhere, abandoned house, every other house is abandoned. How to not starve is part of your thought process.

1:10:09 How to which way do I get home? Like safely without getting gang? You put somebody that environment and they wither. They they they're amazingly resilient and figuring out some way to survive. Yeah, that's a great way to say. Yeah. And so really that's what I mean by environment. Right. So like if we want to improve the human condition we want to improve these environments for sure 100%.

1:10:33 Right. And then also we want to leverage technology to where people benefit from the application of technology, like not just a few people, but like all society benefits. And so the technologists, the one, the people that are architecting these systems should, should see themselves as a humanist and see themselves in a really unique position to shape the future from entity.

1:11:00 But I think a lot of them see how can I make money out of this. Right. And so if we keep going down that path of how can I leverage a tool to get more for me and less for you? We're in big trouble. But if we start to see it as as like, wow, I have an actual power.

1:11:14 Anybody can make money, right? But I have a unique opportunity here actually, like sculpt and define humanity. Right. And going into the future, that's incredible power, right. And incredibly excited and motivated. Right. Way more so than like, oh, you get a good paycheck, right? And with this paycheck, I can get some stuff, some stuff that's going to entropy its way to the landfill and doesn't mean anything.

1:11:40 Right? Yeah. Inevitably I can get some stuff that other people can't get. And wouldn't that be just. Yeah. Yeah. My my things bigger now right. Yeah. And so I think that humanity gaining a new philosophical function, like a new philosophical, motivation could be a huge game changer. Like, it could, it could, it could help us create that utopia in the future.

1:12:05 So technologists have a really crucial role to play in, in because like I said, they're directly influencing how part of humanity is being shaped in that being technology. So now now with that imagination, now, with that now being in our brains and in our imagination, we can start to look at all these different channels. So we can say we can tie ethics into a utilitarian type of ethics with the efficacy of the application of technology.

1:12:32 So we can start to create a scorecard, ethical scorecard for behavior and actions based on how they influence technology to the environment for the betterment or the detriment of manatee. And so we can start to in view those type of things into these hyper intelligent systems. And that would give it a much better chance of having a positive goal function than make t unbridled, you know, make T being a metaphor for applying a vision.

1:12:57 Right? Right. So humanity is successful, at least from what I think I know from what I've read about, you know, biological evolution is that we are successful as a species because we have some unique things indeed within us. Right? Like so, we have very strong emotional attachment to one another, very strong, a very strong willingness to work in groups.

1:13:18 Right. A very, very strong connection and willingness to foster and protect children and our youth and our progeny. A lot of things are built into our biologically. Right. Whether that was indeed from God or that came through evolutionary process, not outside the scope of this discussion, but, it seems like seems like he's there. You could, you could, mark all of those as a pathogenic functions of ours, just in the, in the the interest of, you picked up the Earth as our host.

1:13:50 And, you know, those functions are how we make sure we stay around. You know, they can be put that way, too. Exactly, exactly. And so if, if, if we can get the AI to be, not only because, remember, it's technology as an extension of humanity or part of humanity. Symbiotic women the same. The AI takeover, if you will, is just a progression of human aka human flesh, you know, symbiotic evolution.

1:14:15 And it's nothing to be afraid of. So like, okay, so humans will take a different form, maybe someday being fully mechanical. Yeah. They still quote unquote biologically, no. But look at all the human species that we have in the fossil records that are have gone as well. We're not crying over it. Yeah, I would, I don't I don't want to be too abrupt, but I, I would describe that as the PowerPoint human PowerPoint human.

1:14:42 Yeah, I like that. I like the PowerPoint. Now that's pretty good. Like, yeah we may get there. We may get there. And we may be whatever we are, I, I would imagine that if we're still Herman at all, even at all. We will find a way to tell ourselves a story about how this is filled. We have, I don't know, we have a remarkable way to sell ourselves narrative.

1:15:06 So it's the difference between the the animal and the human part of our brain is what you're talking about earlier is the the rider on the elephant. That's great. You know, that. Never wants to admit that the thing he's riding is way more powerful than he is, you know, so tells himself these stories about how he's kicking it, pulling it, if it weren't for me.

1:15:25 But it's only the fact that his his interests are in lying at the elephants interest, which is to to eat right. That, you know. Oh, so same thing. So like I wear glasses, I see you work laughing. Right. And so those glasses don't make you less Cubano. But there are useful right. In fact, I would I would argue that some extent the glasses my sister humanity because they allow you to see one more party.

1:15:50 There's they're they're separating me from, this is a technology that is making me more fitted to my environment than I was. Naturally. So naturally, you have some a disability? Yeah. I had a variation where my eyesight wasn't good. A hundred years ago, that would be a much more serious challenge than we would not know. So. And so then when society evolves and changes, the requirements of society will evolve and change as well.

1:16:21 And then these new technologies of the future, like like we both agreed, are unimaginable at this point. But these new technologies of the futures will give us that a same assist, right. That would otherwise be a disability, right, in that future paradigm. And so that might be embedded systems. Right. And so that might become a one way street, just like technology seems like I, I equate technology with kind of like times arrow time since only move in one direction.

1:16:46 Right. Like less Sci-Fi and time travel in general. We see we're getting closer to it. Not moving, but but but but time seems to increment forward. That seems to move in one direction aka times arrow. Well, technology seems to be that same way as well. Technology seems to be. In my lifetime. I've seen dramatic increments only in expansions of technology.

1:17:09 I've not seen technology decline, I've seen products fail, but I've never seen. I have not seen a technological decline in my I've seen I've seen moral decline. I've seen all types of what I would say social decline, social cohesion as seen in my lifetime. I think I witnessed a dramatic decrease in social cohesion and a radical increase in social isolation, even with the most technologically linked society of all time.

1:17:37 Right now we know what. I agree with your description. I would say that the technology is the motivator for those changes. I, I don't I don't know if the technology was facilitating something as much as it created, a set of pressures and incentives that we feel. And now again, we're telling ourselves a story about how it's better.

1:18:02 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's more and more and more and cheaper and cheaper and cheaper and more people have more and more and more. But yeah. So like a great example, what you're saying is, like, as a parent, you can stick your kid on a tablet. I'm gonna try to get that one. And your kid can watch, sit there and watch YouTube.

1:18:21 Right. And for all intents and purposes, they're not out near the street. You don't have to worry about them getting hit by a car. They're they're they're someplace where they're in a controlled environment where they're not going to be abducted or whatever. You'll be snatched by some psychopath or physically. Right? Or like someone might not come up to them and just beat them.

1:18:42 Near death of no reason. There's a whole set of things that you can be certain will not happen. That's right. And so it's a comfort blanket, but we have to then automatically take the what they're now receiving into account and everything they're not receiving. Exactly, exactly. The the playing next to the street has a bunch of obvious threats, a bunch of obvious costs and things that go a certain way.

1:19:06 There are a lot of less obvious, benefits and values to what happens to a kid. Hopefully they learn you back into the street. Is that so? Like, yeah, you, you know, you raise them on the tablet and the hope is that they get to be around tablets a lot and they don't ever have to go near a street.

1:19:25 Right. And then there's another right. And then there's another swerving. What happens to our interests in streets one day when we don't have streets anymore? We tell ourselves that it's better because we were right. Yeah. Okay. You're reading me perfectly. And so then you take another leap there, and then you can also argue that having your kid on the tablet almost as much as possible is wiring their brain in a way that's ready for the future.

1:19:54 So, boy, wish you'd let them do as much of it as they want because they never want to stop. Because now their brain is going to be wired for the future. Whereas you have the kid who's the Boy Scout that you're keeping away from technology because you're old school and you think that they need a, an analog, you know, life, not just a digital life, you know, and you raise your kid that way, and they might in the future be socially inept because right there now I feel more and more out of place every year.

1:20:20 And I know that's that's, you know, it's harder and harder to tell what is just an effect of the age I'm at compared to how the environment actually is changing and the pace of change is changing. But like we have this sense about our parents being outdated. All that for sure. I'm starting to feel out of date, but I don't think it's actually quite the same.

1:20:44 Well, I guess it's the same set of things happening, but it's the rate of things happening is just way, way to like. I can't imagine being older than us right now, just trying to figure out what any of this means. Oh, no. This technological expansion is a major right between the generations. What what do I believe? What? You know, like showing a defect to your parents.

1:21:07 Let's show a deepfake, let's say to my uncle, for example, he would absolutely believe it, that that was left there on the video. That's right, that's right. So anyway. Yeah. And in fact, Sue and I are constantly saving him from all these scams that are, you know, like internet. He's trying to be you, trying to get into the digital domain and has found out that he can find jokes online and find funny videos online.

1:21:34 And. Right. So like he's enjoying that immensely. Right? He's learning how to search and doing those things. But then in comes now all those freaking scams. You know, they you know, he goes to a website types in around you or it's like your computer is affected infected. Call this number. He calls me right away, starts getting text messages from his bank and stuff.

1:21:54 Yeah. And so like he's now learned to call me immediately and I'm like, don't do anything. It's a scam. I'll I'll explain it to you. And and, there's some value there. I can help them at the same time. It creates like a, a social contact point between us. So, you know, you can you can resolve it. But he's on the margins as far as, like, even being willing to, to try.

1:22:18 Right. And a lot of that is from a lot of encouragement from us because there's years and years he was just like crotchety, like, get that thing away from me, right? I mean, there is a lot of joy in those computers, man. There's a lot of joy in there. There it is. So, like, if you if you look at the, really interesting to talk about is like the goal function or the, the, the purpose function of a group of individuals.

1:22:43 Right. And you kind of do an assessment on what the current goal function is of, human beings in the kind of Western world, let's say, United States. And if you were an alien, I guess looking down, you know, and making your analysis of what the function of these organic creatures are, the, the functionality would be to amuse themselves.

1:23:10 This you find ways to pursue entertainment, whether they do chemical means or through, you know, some type of entertainment vector, like television, screen, media game, video game. You know what you name mostly pressing on our dopamine is right. Like you could boil most of what we do down to, like, how do we make the dopamine squirt? Right?

1:23:29 Right, right right, right. Like like to, recklessly pursue. Right. And so if you if you if you say that that's the goal function. And I think that we are open to incredible amounts of exploitation in. So I think that that being the primary goal function has us then, very, very, able to be set in a direction, right, very, very vulnerable to manipulation and to coercion.

1:24:01 Yeah. And we can also get to where we're not even depending on how messaging is done, where we're not even chasing dopamine. We can be avoiding negative emotion, for instance. Right. And it feels functionally the same to us. We're we're trying to find some exact better state than however, wherever we are anyway. Sorry, I don't mean no, no, you're exactly right.

1:24:24 That's what I'm saying. So yeah. Yeah. So what I think is that with that kind of paradigm and history of serving as a guy that said that phrase by a million times because it's so relevant, is that it would seem that, unless we start really thinking critically and making some, some brown foundational decisions now that increase our chances, we're starting to look like we might be steering in the direction of the dystopian future rather than, you know, the utopian one.

1:24:58 And, and so I think a big, a big component of being like a technologist, right, or being in the field at all is to act with conscious intent on how we actually allow technology to fall. But that's pretty much it. So, we'll leave it there for today. Dude, it was great. Yeah, same. Thank you.