Veritable Cornucopia of High-Octane Maladies
In this episode of Positively Pedestrian, we discuss everything from simulated stupidity to stretching the imagination, and placebos. We are honing in on the toxicity of believing without evidence. And working to explore the interplay between faith, charisma and science.
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Full Transcript
That it's not. It's, full battery. Thanks for the battery. But, like. Yeah, dude. Okay. It's okay. Yeah. So. So last night in the meeting, I was like, arguing science with really nonscientific people, and, you know, that's that's the first mistake, right? It's like the first mistake, but but when you committed to a two hour, you know, discussion, you know, you kind of committed to the two hour discussion and really nonscientific people.
That's most of it. And depending on the topic, I'm like, get nonscientific on your ass real quick. Who knows? Yeah, maybe. But, there's a certain appeal, though, to like, once you've gotten to a certain point in scientific understanding and logic and being able to rationalize things. Yeah, there's a certain there's a certain like, way of explaining something that will appeal to those sentiments of yours.
You're right. Yeah, right. I'm telling you, that's got animal theme, right. It's like something in there and, you know, with that appeal, at least some, some progress can be made in a conversation. Yeah. But if you have someone that just straight out believes in ghosts, for example, and they're telling you that like, no, I saw a ghost and I'm sure of it, right.
So thereafter, therefore I'm sure ghosts are real. You start to approach that from a scientific or logical standpoint, and they're just got their arms crossed in or close off to. You want to be absolutely obstinate, not listening to anything you have to say either. Yeah. As far as they're concerned, they have seen a ghost. And so therefore ghosts are real.
Right? Right. And so like I've seen what I thought was a ghost, but I don't necessarily think they are 100% real. And it was when I was a kid and one of my brothers saw it too, but it was just such a weird experience. I'm definitely not sure it was real. Yeah. So. So these experiences get you intermission to our, you know, psyche and, they're, as far as we were concerned, confirmed as real.
Right? Right. So the person experience that. And then if you're going about the business of actually trying to talk somebody out of it, or giving them alternative explanations, it's a, it's an attack on their fundamental belief structure. Hey, buddy. Oh, sweet dog, I'm I'm the best. Hey, buddy. You sweet dog. Oh. Was actually a nice dog, so he was like, I just want to play know you.
So does two. And, so, you know, it becomes a threat to a house of cards, if you will, that they've built many, many ideas upon it. Their. It's a advertising for, getting employed over their 15 bucks an hour. All right. That's not bad. Okay.
I just didn't expect ace number three hamburgers to offer you. 15 bucks an hour. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, go on the $24 hamburger. Yeah, yeah, we sell one an hour to pay for an employee. Yeah, I can't repeat enough. Is is the bistro a gastropub or an eatery? It's like the same shit, but but XX3 the cost, right.
And I'll say these are white that bad. They're $9. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're still up there. So it's like the branding thing is like really just a Happy Meal in disguise. Oh, shit. That thing is one of the best burgers I've ever put in my face. Happy meal. No. Oh, that burger back there. Number three. Okay, today's positively pedestrian park.
Brought to you by Ace Burger. Number three. Yes. Ace number three. Burger. Look in Charlotte, North Carolina. They even have a, shake. Happy hour from 3 to 5 on Monday through Friday. Oh, what is that like, Shamrock Shake with a shot of, Baileys or something? Well, they do have, they do have liquor in the milkshakes if you want it.
All right. With that? It's stuff like peanut butter, whiskey, cheese. Yeah. You must. You might as well, like, you know, have some crack while you're at it. Right. Like, for your health is getting decimated like monsters go all out. Right. So they do have the good little shamrock shake. That's the seasonal shake, right? You got fraternity guys like Shotgunning the up their ass.
Oh, hey, hey, hey, hey, we're getting off topic. Pooping is the term, gentlemen. It's called goofy. Yeah. All right, let me up here. I have something. I thought roofing was, like a classic term just for. But sex. Oh, well, I don't have bug, but I don't know. Oh, I don't know what could be off on my flying. Yeah, know roofing was, you know, putting things, like you said, drugs or alcohol in your ass.
Yeah. I'm not hip on the latest millennial. Yeah. It's got trends. We there's I mean I am far away fraternal summit. But we all agree there's some sort of term for shoving alcohol or drugs in your asshole and letting them sit. Does it get on your breath? Like, do you does it much right. Seems like you aspirate some of the like you you exhale right, some right.
Some of the alcohol. So like it must get on your breath. I guess it's the question of that South Park pose. Oh you know, can you make it go backwards. Yeah, I can make it go backwards. I've been sick a few times and I know the answer is yes. You can like intentionally very sick a few times. I know the answer is you can go anywhere it wants.
Yeah. When you say it's just going what you want every way is the fastest way out. That's how it's going to go. Your body wants to expel it. So I catch it on the floor yesterday. Oh last night. So that's another reason I was late. I had to clean up like a midsize pile of cat shit. Oh, my.
Like, what the hell? Like, well, it's like an eight a condor or something. Oh, you fuck, I don't know, I don't know what the hell I think I did. Well, but it was, you know, disproportionate the size of the animal versus the size of the hand. Yeah, funny when that happens. Like. Wow. Yeah. Versus got their car plugged in.
They. There was a movie, problem child. Do you, do you remember watching that back in the day? Macaulay Culkin oh, no. Is it that was he that after it was a. Oh, that was that was like the good song or something? Yeah, that's a good song with him. But, Problem Child, I don't know, but little like Little Brown had a good and think John Ritter might have been the guy versus him, but anyway, versus them like that, that was like a kind of like a Dennison.
That's almost idea. It was. But it was like way more evil. Okay. And, gotcha. Well, one of the things that, ended up in this movie that I just thought was hilarious and almost got a tattoo of was, hey, he had this dog the kid did that would just shit these piles of shit when nobody was looking that were taller than it was.
Really. Oh, shit.
Taller than it was. Yeah. And it was like, pretty tall to wall wall sector. Okay. So this is like fun make believe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. But they're just ridiculous. Shit. They would just have this retarded smile on its face when it would let it out. We have an underpinning of comedy in our podcast because, you know, we resort to fecal jokes, you know, like often.
Yeah, yeah, pretty much. It feels like a, there's like an air of amateur comedy night in our, in our podcast. But, so that's what I thought of whenever you're talking about the used by hosts. Yeah. Right. But this dog sitting next to a pile of shit year, it was like like, you know, when you when you just think about ratios and proportionality, like, there's no way that was comfortable coming out.
No, that had to be painful as hell. But but when it finally did, it must have been the biggest relief. Like, oh. It's like like a tall, skinny cat too. So that makes it even weirder. Oh, man. So that had to be the full contents of the intestine. It was like a big ass Morris, like overindulging on Fancy Feast.
And then you can see ways that two different brands have it. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. My brands are all fucked up in my brain. It's okay, because we're sponsoring. We're. We're sponsored by the mall. Yeah, yeah, by a by the mall and hamburgers today. Yes. So, yeah, back to this idea of, like, trying to, talk somebody out of something, right?
Wait, does that's the right term? Try to try to break it down to to, like, look at alternatives to this long held standing belief that this person has. Yeah. You just wanted to say, hey, is it possible this other thing is true? Yeah. Like let's look at alternative explanations and analyze those. And let's talk about in general if it makes sense, she's gonna show me.
Yeah. Let's see in general, if it makes sense that ghosts are real. Right. So like if a certain percentage of people died in a certain way and like, know the Earth started being populated with ghosts across all of the different people throughout all the years that have died in the past. Yeah, we'd have this overpopulation of ghosts. Like we'd be getting crowded out by ghosts, right?
Right. And, there would be more and more data quantified if we if all that was needed was someone to die by violence. Yeah. Or whatever the rule is, right? Yeah, yeah. Make up your rule. Yeah, yeah. And, just over time, you'd have more and more ghosts, right? Yeah. And so, therefore in modern times with, with more, you know, recording devices and technology to capture, you know, in theory, you'd have, you know, more more and more, rates of evidence, right?
Testimonial that ghosts are real would be piling up, not the other way around. Yeah, right. So then let's look at possible alternate explanations. Right. Many people, when they just woke from in a dream state, their, their brain still in like, you know, an alpha pattern or whatever the mode of the brainwave pattern is and you're, you know, these messages can happen in between reality and dream world while like semi-conscious and oh, yeah, all these known, you know, and also maybe having a predisposition toward it too.
Yeah. Like you're just listening to a bunch of ghost stories, or your family believes in ghosts or whatever it might be. Right on and on. All types of alternative explanations. And so a reasonable person, right would say, you know, in my opinion, a reasonable person would say, yeah, it is possible that it was, you know, not a real experience.
Right. But so many people take, personal offense to you saying something they perceived or you know, that that that somehow had to do with their own personal faculties. That's exactly right. Exactly what happened, exactly what happened over and over, like in every single thing that I was approaching, it was over and over and. But I can't be wrong.
Yeah, yeah. And then it, like, started turning on personal attacks against me. And that's what I'm like, wait a minute. You know, like, hold up, hold up here. Right. Well, like, I'm not trying to say there's no Santa Claus, and you're and you're and you're six, you know, six year old. Okay? That's not what's happening here. Or is it?
Or, you know, and maybe it is. So I think what happens is like, you know, people internalize these beliefs so much so that they're just like misinformation that we talked about the other day, how it integrations in the mind. But it also, it's more insidious than that because for some people, some of these things are offering comfort.
Sure. That's the that's part of it, okay. Part of it's ego, part of it's comfort. Part of it is, you know, hey. Yeah, yeah. So we live in a world where there's so many, like, unknowns and scary things and there's climate change and there's big worldly issues where we have no control. Yeah. And so, like, there surely is a degree of like, you're saying this comfort because it gives you some sense of control or an explanation for some things that are outside of your control.
Grounding them. Yes. Bringing them to something that you can understand and identify with and maybe even interface with. Okay, which that is going to serve to intensify that belief even more, right? Yeah. And then once that belief gets intensified and entrenched, it's now part of your, you know, like, I guess, wheelhouse of what's what's true. Oh, there we go.
Yeah. You know, because we all kind of carry around that shit. I mean, you know, we we kind of have it at the ready to talk about to. And. Yeah. So becomes part of your identity. Yeah. So for me, a litmus test of like where I stand, relatively speaking, in terms of accuracy of information that's in my brain and my beliefs structure.
Yeah. It's through the lens of science and the scientific method, right? Yeah. Not through the not through the, you know, oracles shook the bones and threw them down and made a determination. Right. That's not how I gauged my sense of reality and how accurate I am. Right. I'm going to go visit your psychic every week to see what the trajectory of your life today.
Yeah, I think it stands to reason that you'd be much more better off, much more likely to have correct information in your mind in general, if you gravitate towards scientific based information, you would rational based, scientific, you know, evidence based information. Then you would, you know, oracle information or psychic information. And I'm in my personal view, I'm not saying remove the all of the human equation here.
We do need some some of that. All right. The universe is outside of ourselves is vast. There's that's that's there's no doubt there. Right. And so it's kind of helpful for us to sometimes either believe or invest in those gray areas or something greater than ourselves. You know, to me, saying that out there is more than me and something greater than me, it's something I may not ever be able to fathom.
Just like that drowns me and helps me. It's almost like, God light. Okay, so yes, I feel that. And so what I do, the way I describe that same exact thing you just described, is I put that into the, into the domain of I don't know. Yeah. Right. And so the I don't know is what keeps the mind open.
It is right. It is, it is. So someone says, how does the universe coming to exist. Right. And so if I say, I don't know, here's some ideas I've heard, here's some things, here's some things that we can talk about as far as possibilities, like things that have been, you know, there's that there's maybe some evidence for or some data suggesting.
Yeah, right. Like the whole background radiation thing. Remember that like microwave radiation. So there's some data that suggests, you know, this, this big event at one point, right. But it's still, to me, not even close enough to where I can sort of saying, I didn't believe this right. It's still overall in the category of, I don't know. Now, see, I have an advantage now because, I haven't made a mental commitment, you know, in a belief structure to a certain story of how things came to be.
Yeah. Right. And so I'm not locking my mind into some kind of AI paradigm, but if someone says, oh, it was God, you're you're a dumb ass. If you don't understand that, that's close minded. Am I wrong? It is. It's saying it's creating a breeding. Me versus what everyone else believes sort of thing. It's saying I'm the king of the hill.
But intellectually, I've come across the right and one true thing. And, you know, a lot of times whenever I've talked to Christians about science or other people who are deeply invested in other religions, they'll say, okay, that's what scientists do. They say, I am the intellectual. There's this one true right thing. I said. And I'm like, well, here's the one thing you're missing evidence.
Exactly. I talked the same about the Big Bang. As I say, you know, these are unverifiable wild claims and exaggerations and assertions about what the nature of. It's a modern it's a scientific, wild ass. Guess that's kind of, grown into almost a fable. Yeah, it's like dark matter. There's a there's gravity. Silhouette can be measured, but we don't know where that gravity surplus is coming from.
So we put in this term dark matter as a placeholder for like still. And then what is it? Yeah. But the problem is, is that too many people that are like pseudo intellectuals then have a faith based system, that dark matter is the real thing and exist. Right? So there's like there's plenty of areas of science where it becomes a faith based system as well.
In are what I'm saying is to be really agile and keep an open mind fully like have a open mind. Science is about understanding the unknowable and pushing those frontiers. Absolutely, absolutely. And the best tool that we have to do so. But just because something comes from a scientific community shouldn't automatically then be accepted on a faith based model.
That is then something that's true until it's been verified and passed through the process. And in my personal opinion, we shouldn't eschew faith in every facet of our lives. Hey, sometimes it's appropriate having faith in your child or your spouse or, you know, things like that. Hold on. Let's let's not blur faith with expectation. Well, I guess because let's.
That's true. Let's define I guess the two are often conflated, right? Let's define faith as believing in something without evidence. True. And whereas expectation is backed by evidence and trust and experience. Right. And and pushed a little bit in the direction that you want, that you want the outcome to be right. So like, you know, you trust your spouse, but then you go the extra mile and you say, I'm really sticking my neck out and fully trusting him.
Yeah. Because that then, hey, you know, this is the first time they've ever been on a two week work junket. You know, I expect or trust they will be just fine and not go out to the strip club and get a bunch of whores in the hotel or whatever. Yeah. And that expectation actually has a it has a driving factor in reality.
Like that's, well that's a well understood psychological principle. Right. So like one's expectation of you we've talked about this before. One's expectation of you is a shaping sculpting force to your actions. Oh yeah. Right. So like we should have high expectations of people across the board. Right. Because that's going to produce better outcomes. We know this this is a real phenomenon in human psychology.
Yeah. And we've all experienced it to one degree or another. Yeah. And then for our own happiness and health, mental health and happiness. Right. By having the positive expectation, we're setting a more positive tone within our own minds as well. So like it's a win win scenario when you have more positive expectations of people things. Right. Yeah. So sometimes it's hard to keep that faith.
But, pun intended, you know, but but but it's still a recognizable and, you know, documented and measured phenomenon. Right. How expectations sculpts behavior. And it really just kind of makes sense. I mean, in my personal experience, the main thing that comes to mind is whenever my work ethic got markedly better permanently working at Lowe's. Oh, improvement place because my manager, this guy Phil Pasta, he was he was awesome.
And he just decided that he was gonna, you know, he trusted me for some reason, and he trusted me with whatever we had to do. And, yeah, you know. Yeah, just was like, this guy can get it done. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, made you get it done more. Yeah. Made me get it done more and actually step up to the plate.
And for the, you know. Right. First time I've worked a bunch of crap jobs to actually do a the best I could possibly do. Yeah. You know, the, classic one where the, the, they took a bunch of kids that were low performing and told the teachers that they told the teachers that were, you know, part of they were part of the, talented and gifted program, really.
And it turns out that, the teachers attitude and expectation towards those students completely changed, which then in turn changed their performance. Yeah. And so it was like a double blind, you know, type of thing. And so, you know, if, let's say I reintroduce you to somebody. So I'm talking about you and I pretty introduce you as like this guy is the, I would say like experience authority on it security.
Right. But no, no. Come on. Let's just say right. Yeah. Right. And then this person's expectations of you when they first meet you, is that you're a guru, right? Right, right. So you come in to the scene, I introduce you, not even now that I actually introduce you. Not free introduce you. I actually now introduce you and like, give you a real job title, give who you are and all that kind of stuff, right?
Yep. The expectation in the mind is already that. That you are you know, far more advanced than your title suggests. Right? Got it. So and so. Now what happens is this person is almost looking at you in or puts you up on a pedestal, right? As being like a foremost authority on on yang, yada yada. Right. And now what happens is morning.
Now what happens is, there's you get into a feedback loop. Yeah, right. You're being held up, regarded on this pedestal as the guru by this person emotionally, right, with the tone of their voice, the way they ask questions, what type of questions they ask. And then now you're reverberating that back because you're being appreciated as like this higher this guru okay.
Yeah. You see you're you're at your best. Yes. And so then you step into those shoes that have been put before you and almost invariably perform better than you would have. Would the initial if I pre introduced you as like, oh, he's in the career field. He's in that field right. Yeah. So these kids that were like tagged as talented and gifted savants you know very advanced.
Right. Right. The teachers then have this constant expectation. That's not a wrong answer. It's a creative answer right in the lens by which you're viewing. This child overall is completely changed. Yeah, right. And so that's where expectation fits in. Now we get into the faith idea. And faith is where we have all the toxicity. I mean this is a bit of a stretch.
But faith becomes the the grand source of toxicity in human interaction. Right. So the grain source you think about this faith believing in things without evidence becomes the bane of humanity, if you will. Okay. Like the Achilles heel of humanity. I mean, I see that it chips away and erodes our position. No doubt. I have faith that my God is so supreme that I'm going to fly this plane into these buildings, right?
Right. My God, you know, I'm going to Paradise. I have faith that that Paradise awaits me by. By punishing the attendant rewards, whatever they may be. That's right. The eternal rewards of you know what? I'm what I'm getting myself into. That's an extreme version. But take it on the minor version. Okay. Homeopathic. Someone suffering from, like, pancreatic cancer or something, right?
Steve Jobs so exactly. Thinking that. Yeah, he goes down this homeopathic road, okay, of misinformation and false beliefs of faith. Has faith yet in this science that has no evidence supporting it beyond the pseudoscience at best? Yeah. Beyond the placebo effect. Right? Right. And dies as a result. Right. Okay. So they had to suffer. They suffered needlessly. And then everyone that love them did as well.
Right. And because you know, it has knock on effects to that fucker, affected so many people's lives and enrich so many people's lives. I mean. Right, yeah. Right. So then and millions, I'm sure people adored, you know, him and were like probably physically, emotionally stung when he died. Right. And then not I'm not one of those people put me there.
I don't give a damn about him. I said, I'm on fire. But, yeah. All cremation. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm talking about before he's dead. Wait for it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like language was the reality of everything, right? I'm talking about taking one of those Tesla branded fire flamethrowers. Yeah, I was trying to. I was trying to save you, but then you're just.
Don't you to push me away and to continue to jump off the cliff that's on you. You're right. And, you know, I'm just going to say, if everyone has it realized, that's my M.O.. That's why I'm up. That's what I do. Yeah. So. So if you take this position overall like consider like do the thought experiment okay. That faith based positions.
Yeah okay. What's causing all of the anguish in humanity which is what there's, there's a root to this that comes in over and over and over. For example, someone that thinks that money is important, right? People are important. Money is important. Okay. Profit over people kind of person. Yes. Profit or politics over people that say, okay, or both.
And they have this like so they have this faith in this idea, right. But all of human psychology and, you know, anthropological, biological, evolutionary theory, all these kind of things that right, tie into study sociology, all these things that that tie into the mind of man will showcase over and over and over that someone that's in that intellectual position is suffering.
Okay. Wild evidence all over the place that someone that that grooms their mind to think that way has faith in the almighty dollar. Okay. Right. He's going to probably die with a lot of money with no friends and right. And you know with wrinkles and all that. Sure. But yeah, in general. Right. And so any, any single type of faith based system that people get hooked into becomes a, you know, a route to suffering for themselves, for others.
And I think the reason it's a route to suffering is it's exclusionary. Our faith based system usually says, all right, I am going to put this above all else, like you said. Yeah. And all other things will fall away or they be they do fall away because faith almost requires obsession and single mindedness. Yeah. Belief without evidence. Yeah.
And so belief without evidence is, is is a is a terrible thing. Because like I said before, a belief leads to actions. Belief leads to thoughts and patterns. A way of thinking and and and conclusions. And then those conclusions lead to actions. Yeah. Whether they be psychological or physical. And so bad beliefs or beliefs that are grounded in, in any form of reality lead to unreal circumstances.
Right? Morning. And so those unreal circumstances are where people suffer tremendously, right? Like, oh, we're just living in a simulation, so I don't have to take care of myself. Oh, right, right, right. Okay. Well, apparently the simulation is then designed to kill you if you know that, you know. Yeah, exactly. Even if it's a simulation, if it's a simulation, it's simulating something.
So it has rules and it's a system. Yeah. So that you're now not following the test of your belief. Faith in the idea. It's a simulation. Yeah. Which the orderly doesn't make sense because you believe it's a simulation. So to me I would try to game the system even more if I believed wholeheartedly with the simulation. Right. I would be like, well, where's the cracks?
Where's the where's the game here. Where's the system that I can. Yeah. How do I for a while the simulation. Yeah. How do I break it. Yeah. And then when you do that you know, you then start to undermine the faith system in the simulation, which puts you in a better spot anyway. It does. And you're also oriented towards success and beating the other.
That's always a good you know, that's for me that's like warning. Yeah I've seen that be a driver in a lot of people. I need to beat this thing. Yeah yeah, yeah. So so let's take this approach. So someone had made the claim that, you know, this is actually kind of funny, right? If there wasn't truth behind these things, why would so many people believe in them?
Well, that one doesn't even need time to tick things like that. That doesn't even need. You know, there was a time when everybody thought there was some slack. There was a time that everybody, you know. Yeah. I mean, there's no wisdom in the majority. And I mean, we're shown that and we're and it's explained to us by means.
Yeah. I mean, just because popular and truth measured in mass appeal isn't truth. It's just common sentiment. There's no you don't have to make any claim to whether it's true. It's validity beyond it's just what the message. And I know that sometimes hard for people to hear in this. I hate to use that overloaded term, but post-truth world, as they call it, where we just ignore facts, the that's happening, that's happening and, you know, people have somehow come to the conclusion that just ignoring facts is valid.
It's not it's not a valid way to conduct yourself. No, no, in fact, it's it's exactly what I'm saying. Ignoring facts is then taking your faith in your beliefs that are contrary to those facts and trying to apply it. And then not understanding why you're getting bad results, right? Harming yourself, harming others. You know, and not achieving your goal.
So here's another example. In the court of law, right? They don't bring in an army of psychics to, give testimony to the jury about whether or not this person had done this crime. Right. So, like, court cases aren't done by like they don't bring in, you know, 12 psychics that all sit there and meditate or do whatever they do to determine whether this person's guilty or not.
Right? They go with what they go with facts and evidence. Yeah. In forensics, admissible evidence varies depending on the jurisdiction. But for the most part, admissible evidence is scientifically verified and can be traced back to the wall, can be plugged in, so to speak. So so do you think there's a court in the United States that would allow psychic evidence?
I don't think there's a court that would allow psychic evidence, but I have heard that there are some courts of law that allow some questionable thing. Well, that's true just by default. Yes. But what I'm talking about specifically is the idea of a psychic coming in. I think someone has to the guilt, and I'm just qualifying what you're saying with, hey, you know, our courts of law aren't necessarily the ultimate bastions of truth, but they for the most part, yes, it has to be scientifically verified as an expertise.
Sure. If someone has. Just like science isn't by default a bastion of truth, it's just a process. So it's going to have flaws and but it happens to be the best tool that we have for the job, you know? Right. So the the best tool that we have to get down to whether or not something the truth, you know, in a court setting, right, is the judicial process.
That's the best we have. Where we where we weigh evidence. Right. We look at, you know, and there's a series of rules and guidelines around it. That process happens to be the best we have at determining the person's guilt. And, you know, it's incumbent upon us to continue to refine, said process. Do not look at it as something that should never be changed.
I think I mean, right, and so the court of law, the the scientific method all start and every, every single person, in my opinion, should start from the default position guilty until proven innocent or doesn't exist until shown to exist. Right. So until there's evidence there's such a thing that psychic powers are in existence, nobody should by default believe it.
But I feel like if, if we take that tact, we might have missed out on a lot of things that are, at least at the time, largely counterintuitive to people. Yeah, we we getting right. You're right. We would have missed out things like the witch trials, like the Spanish Inquisition. Yeah. I mean, like the occult that the Nazis believed in was true, drove much of their behavior.
All of those things are terrible and have been used to, you know, hurt massive swaths of people and have done great damage to our society and individuals. Great. I agree. Right. So, like the sci fi use of the force, let's fight, for example. Right is great within the context that the force is just to make believe, right?
But I'm saying we still stretch of the imagination. Yes. We can't cut that out. We can't cut the stretching the imagination out. We can't cut. I'm not saying cut it out. I'm saying let's stop at, but let's stop when we get to the point where people say the force is real weak, let's stop there. Let's let's keep that in the domain of entertainment, which is stretching the imagination and the sci fi.
You know what might be possible in the future way. But if, if, say, now, during the foundations of medicine, whenever we were trying to lay those out, if someone hadn't been creative, probably believed in some things that, you know, the pioneers of medicine probably believed in a lot of things that weren't true. Right? They did, but they still advanced the arc.
Right. Because people might have an outlandish belief of some type that that leads them to a scientific understanding. Right. And that's what I'm saying. We might no, no, no, there's there's a possibility for that. Like the guy that came up with hand-washing. Yeah. Right. Like for whatever reason came up with evidence, though. That's the key chemical evidence that hand-washing was causing the patients to get less infections.
Right? Right. And and didn't know why he was left out of the, out of the medical complex. Yeah. The shunned and everything else. Right. And, you know, it was and it was I think the scenario was, it was a hospital where, they delivered a lot of babies, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's that's what I remember as well.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so let's say that this person came to this, initial concept of washing hands, let's say they came to it out of a faith based system. Let's just say. Sure. Right. They arrived at this, let's say, let's say they prayed and they had a vision while praying. Yeah. That, washing the hands was the right.
It was the right answer. Let's just say. Yeah. Okay. And then he's like, you know what, let me give that a shot okay. That would be no different than than trying out anything for any reason. Right. But because now as soon as it starts to show some effectiveness now it goes into the domain of data driven. You see what I'm saying?
Yeah. Very, very rapidly. When the success is uncovered for some, some method shows success. If we're doing it correctly, we're instantly abandoning because God did it. And we move in this domain of why does it work scientifically? But I guess what I'm saying is, when something's naissance, when something's just brand new, we might be casting about and doing all sorts of things wrong and coming from different from wrong, quote unquote areas.
But you're right. If we make that pivot, it's right. If we make the pivot to. All right, I have evidence, I have data. What? Let me explore this further. Right now, instead of making the wild claim that God told me to wash the hands, and this is why it came to be right, think about the most likely scenario of the hand washing being accepted and adopted by others.
Coming from the I don't know position saying listen, I started doing this. You're right. I'm not even bothering talking about why you started doing it. Like I started washing my hands, washing the debris off my hands right before touching the babies. And I'm seeing much less infection rates. Yeah, I don't know why, but think about that. So just a scientist?
I don't think so. Like the intellect. Yes. You were going to have more credibility if you do not introduce wild claims along with the thing you want people to believe. Absolutely. But I feel like I don't want to tell someone. Hell, if you feel like that was your inspiration and you somehow feel like your audience will be receptive, go for it.
But I would agree with you that would not ever be my approach, even if I was inspired by God, quote unquote, right through it. So there's okay, there's that whole thing of like, kill the Messenger. That's morning. All right. Oh, you there's a, there's a, there's a big thing in play all the time. Kill the messenger right.
And, the kill the messenger idea is that, even if you talk somebody out of their faith based belief, let's say, okay, you go about the process of talking somebody out of their faith based, and it works, which is unlikely. But let's say you pull it off right? You still emotionally, in the long run, don't gain, any type of higher status in that person's mind.
In fact, invariably you get the opposite effect. Yeah. In fact, invariably you get the opposite effect. You actually end up in the end, individually, having a diminished value in the mind of that person that you talked out of that faith based idea. Okay. Like, do you want to be the one that that tells the kid that Santa is not real?
No. Because what's that kid going to do? I mean, may not maybe not hate you so much, but definitely not be happy with you. Yeah, emotionally you were the one that brought that that that reality into that person's world and they blame you and that hurt and that hurt because it's painful to be shaken from a belief. Yeah.
Especially one that's so closely important to you. Right. So being the bearer of that news automatically puts you in a, in it behind the eight ball, in a bad position with the other person intellectually. Yeah. So what I'm trying to say. Yeah I was pat back down the Greenway trying to see if we can avoid dump trucks that are it might not be possible like one might come down the greenway while we're on it, but I mean, with our luck.
Yes, like almost 100%. We we are garbage truck seeking machines. Maybe, maybe it's a simple symbolic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they've been trying to pick up the trash for a while. Yeah, we either are garbage or we're doing something to fight it. Yeah. But based on the way that the analogy is coming out, I think. Yeah. We're just trash.
Yeah. Yeah, they're they're just trying to pick up the trash. It's fine. Yeah. They're trying to clean the city, right? Yeah. You're trash bro. You're trash. That's awesome. Yeah. So okay, here we go. Here we go with the back to the idea of faith healer. And you know, I mentioned before, it's worth repeating. It's fucking hilarious. Is that if you have a faith healer wearing glasses.
Yep. If you have if you have a faith healer, you know, wearing glasses that like automatically I think is a disqualifier, right. But thereby I'm going to say, like I mentioned earlier, it's funny, but it is a really hard thing to cure. You know, we have to go. Yeah, yeah. I have some complicated hoops to jump through to cure, bad eyesight.
That's right. Because the person struggling for 50 years with mass just pops out of the wheelchair. That's easy. But, like, you know, macular degeneration. Hell, no. Oh, hell no. Big talker. That the devil has a special reservation on that illness, right? Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, it's, It's interesting. Faith healing is in my family, my great aunt Bessie.
So there's. Five generations of my family that have the same birthday, December 20th as mine. And, I mean, I count that as nothing special other than must have just been a good time to have sex, but, Well, nine months prior. Nine months prior? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You know something about a fun time in March.
Yeah. Sometime in March was just been a great time. The spring flowers, spring showers bring sperm, I guess. So I guess that's what we're talking about. They were just handing out, sperm showers and pearl necklaces. The spring showers. But, so the faith healing in your family? Yeah. Faith healing in my family. My great Aunt Bessie is the oldest one.
Well, she's over 100. She was a faith healer, all right. And and now has got to do it. Well, morning. She now is rotting away in a nursing home, but, Yeah, that's right. She made 100. Yeah, they had a faith healing working out for. So it's at least the idea is. And you talked to her about it, and my grandpa would talk to me about things she would say to.
And ultimately, it was kind of funny. She looked at her role in the community as giving people some hope. Okay. Yeah. She was like, she. My grandpa was like, she kind of really didn't believe in what she was doing. Sure, sure, sure. Really looked at it like, I'm helping people because they. So she's the doctor prescribing a placebo.
Really? Yes. Yes. And the really, my grandpa was telling me there really wasn't a doctor. Yeah. So. So mind over matter is a is a is is 100% documented phenomenon. That's real right. He's like down in the holler in Kentucky. Yeah. There wasn't anybody else. It was her. Yeah okay. There's a certain, there's a certain like, I guess pass that you get in that kind of, situation.
Yeah. If there's nothing else and you have some type of angle in a area of despair to, kind of inject some hope, I guess. Yeah, I can make some justifications or some, exemptions. Yeah. The village shaman doesn't sound quite as bad then. Correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But in the modern, you know, internet connected.
Information age society. Right. You know, everything that everything from, psychics to soothsayers to palm readers to whatever to the church should be waning. Yeah. And we see waning happening in many of these different areas. Right. Which is which I think, ironically, is hopeful, you know. Yeah. Well, so you could also then make the argument, say, okay, well, what's left then?
Okay. You've taken away all this mysticism, you've taken it all away from people. Yeah, right. You get what you want and you take it all away from everybody. Right? But where do they turn then? For their hope, for their inspiration, succor? You know, where do they turn for that? Where's that safe harbor that, that retreat. And that's the exact question I've been trying to answer with the idea of, I don't know, leaving the mind open for possibilities in that domain, because let's say, for argument's sake, that science leads to the idea, to the discovery, if you will, that God, that God exists, right?
Sure. Let's say, okay, well, if you were a close minded to the, I don't know, to the I don't know, like if you're close minded to the concept of I don't know, you won't be willing to accept the new evidence. Correct? Correct. And then miss out on the joy in the no. Yes, that's coming from, you know, this, this, this, potent.
It's like I'm with you that I know a lot of people don't find it that way, but I'm. I find the unknown comforting. Absolutely. I find the fact that there is so much that we don't understand, that we don't know to be a good thing. It doesn't frighten me. I embrace it. I understand that it does frighten some people, but they have to take into consideration that there's an automatic closed mindedness that occurs with accepting someone else's explanation that has.
No, that's not evidence based, right? Right. You've now accepted a degree of closed mindedness in that domain. Yeah. And how does that serve you, really? You've narrowed your mindset and your ability to. I mean, I hate to say it, I've always kind of put it forward as being soft headed because you you've excluded so many things, so many other possibilities.
You said no to them and now you in Dunning-Kruger fashion, you know, you know, you know now. Yeah, of course God created the universe. God is an extra dimensional being and he must be to, you know, to be able to create the world, he has to be the universe. He has to be extra dimensional to the universe. Okay, well then why can't the universe be extra dimensional to itself?
You know, of course, that one thing can be extra dimensional. Then the possibility for all things, right? God's eternal. He doesn't have a beginning and end, right? I am the Alpha and the Omega. There you go. So. Okay, well, then what we're saying is that there's a possibility in the universe something can exist that's eternal. So then why can't the universe itself, the eternal, be eternal?
Yeah, but then our scientific evidence says, oh, wait, it's a system that's kind. It's in some sort of closed loop that once it's energy is gone, it's gone. Sure. And then, you know, you can question that and you can start to like, look at the data and, you know, keep an open mind. Like, sure, it might not be the end all, be all.
It might not be, our understanding of entropy and chaos might not be a complete picture. So my position is that the most open minded position is the one of accepting that you don't know something. It is. It is. Right. And it's hard for a lot of people. Yeah. And but then also at the same time, simultaneously rejecting someone's spackle right over that hole with their made up thing with their faith is like saying no, no, no, no, no, no.
I'm saying I don't know. But I'm also saying so to you. Yeah, humanity doesn't know. Oh no, no, no I know, I know it's God that did that okay. No. You know. Yeah. Faith that is God. Yeah. But you don't actually know. But knowledge and faith are absolutely separate. Well, I'm trying to make that case. Yeah. You know, but in a, in a, in a, in a group of normal people who have the normal amount of belief in, you know, ghosts, the normal amount of belief in psychics and.
All right, it's it's an uphill battle. It's this, you know, uphill battle, therapy and task. It's literally impossible because every time you even get something a little bit going, right, the huge boulder just comes rolling back down. Because they keep defaulting to this idea. They want to accept the premise that the onus of, proof is on the claimant.
They want to accept that. Right? So like the person making the claim is the one responsible for the proof burden. Yeah. Not the person saying there's no evidence to believe that. Right. And I mean, the same thing happens when you're at work if you want to change something or you claim that something is wrong, where does the onus of responsibility lie on you?
That's right. So so let's let's go with the idea of the faith of the psychic detective. Okay. Easy. It's easy to understand this. Cops can't figure out a crime. Well, they decided to take some of their budget. They found this lady online that comes in and, you know, swings a pendulum over a tarot cards. Sure. And, you know, comes up with information that might help crack the case, right?
Yeah. So the, police department's like. Oh, okay, let's take the word that desperate. Yeah. Let's take the five grand we were going to spend on forensics. And, or a lot of times I gather this just from looking at the case, just from seeing the cases on TV and everything, like, we've tried everything. We've spent the five grand on forensics.
Okay? Right. We tried everything. Let's bring in the psychic. Right. The psychic comes in and boom! It has some kind of like, makes it basically guesses okay and is right. Okay. And leads to a clue which cracks the case. Let's just do it right now. Everybody in that experiment, everybody they experiment, everybody in that in that process that just happened.
Now hat starts to have some type of belief in from one data point. It starts to have some type of belief in the psychics ability. Yeah okay. Now the common person would cop a cop for chrissakes, right. A common person does not absolutely does not have the, scientific training, logic training, right? To pass that out in their mind like some people do.
But but in general, like the, the let's just take the average right is going to then start to cement a faith based, belief structure in this type of thing, especially if it's popularized and, psychic markets himself. Well, which they, they're, they tend to do they're always showmen. Yeah. They always have great showmanship. Right, right. And great emotional intelligence.
And that's part of how they can trick people. Right. But then let's say, for argument's sake, you have the one skeptic that says, you know what, I want to I want to follow this person now in across the next 50 cases. So 49 more more data points. Right. And see if that person is more accurate than just chance.
Right. Does that actual wrong study and finds out that they're worse than chance? Yeah. Should the police department ever hire a psychic again. And I would say it's probably cloud and and on the individual psychic you're hired. Yeah. So let's say you have let's say that you have, 30 cops in the police department that has this experience to where this, psychic came in and cracked the case.
Right. I think some of these psychics, who do have some sort of success, are probably not just guessing. They might actually be doing some work. Well, they ask tons of questions to the cops, and they, they, they try to intuitively visualize, like, maybe some ideas and then maybe have some experience that's that's valid. But that's all within the human equation is it is it's going from the ether of the inner dimension, the human equation.
And you know, they but I guess what I'm saying is, hey, one a scientific guess from a psychic is far than is far superior. Yeah. No no no no. Like what I'm saying. I'm saying. Yeah. What you just said is true. But what I'm saying is that, like the FBI profiler with 30 years of field experience that is basing everything on verifiable science, using the science to create statistical models on where we likely should start looking next.
Right, is going to have way better statistical results over time than the psychic hundred per se. Okay. That's really what you should be looking at. Is profiling. Okay. You're lost. Right? So why isn't there a law or regulation across law enforcement that says if you are going to if you've reached the limits on your case file and you're going to bring in a third party, agent to, help crack the case, it must be an FBI.
You know, it must be this this type of, person. Pinch hitter. Yeah, that you're bringing in before it can be a psychic. There we go. Because the data suggests that's where the money is going to solve the most crimes. Yeah. So if we're going to be stewards of this, have a fiduciary, responsibility to the taxpayer to spend that money appropriately or the most effectively.
Yep. We have to make rules saying that the psychic has to go. Can't be. Now flip the script. If psychics work. There would be no police departments. There would just be groups of psychics solving all of our crimes. We have these cabals of psychics running our society. Yeah, it's it's awesome. You call the hotline the psychic. Your name and your credit card number.
You know, Miss Cleo, remember back in the day? Yeah. She ended up in jail. I well, she was fraudster, so what to expect, but. Well, you know, there's there's, established ways to commit fraud. Right? Right, right, right, right, right, right. You're going to do fraud. You have to do it within the established guidelines. Yeah, yeah.
And she went outside of those established guidelines because you can set up a hotline. You can have people call you you can bill them exorbitant amounts. Thank you for calling this Clio baby. How can I help you, man? Yeah, yeah. And she's from the Bronx. Yeah. Or wherever. Right. Louisiana. Yeah. And you're not. You know, Miss Cleo was so big.
You're not getting me all in the boat. Yeah, she was pretty big. I give you that. She, She had a she got so big. She had a home, and, Miami out on the water. And it begs the question, since she had seen it coming since she seen that indictment coming. Right. And, yeah, it closed up shop in Jamaica or something.
Yeah. Shredded some records at a certain point. Yeah. Oh, the columns are telling me I should. Should she close up shop and go back to Jamaica? Move back to the one room shack from whence I came and live like a fucking queen for the rest of her life. Yeah, right. But sure, if forensics worked, if psychic detective detective was a thing that actually had a statistical, you know, better than chance.
And there was evidence that it works. Every fucking police department in the country would have a psychic come on board right? Right. But they don't. So what does that tell you? That most likely it's rooted in fraud. There you go. And now. Now think about this extra little wrinkle. The harm that's caused by the false hope, by misdirecting the police to chasing false leads.
So, okay, if you, call the police department and you say, I know you're working on a case such and such, I have an anonymous tip. If you go dig underneath the home plate in Yankee Stadium, you find the body right? So they orchestrate this big ordeal, go under home plate and dig. And they just have a hole now with no body.
Right. And they have all this massive outlay of money, time, resources. Well, all of which are limited. Yes. Right. And thereby if they find out who falsified that police report, they arrest them. That's right. And so the psychics should be treated with the same thing. If a person is trying to enrich themselves and misappropriating police dollars and police activity and police time and energy and resources into false science, into a false pseudoscience that they call psychic, right?
What are they? What are they really doing? In fact, they're committing a crime. Yeah. And to their defense, they might not know it. They might actually themselves believe in their own abilities. They might. And that's like the nocebo effect, right? Yeah. So what's that? The nocebo. Placebo and nocebo, I don't know. Nocebo. Nocebo is like when the person really believes, you know, they have a measure of self-deception.
Got it. So it's like the doctor believing that the that the, cure is like the opposite of expectation. It's a negative expectation. Creating creating, reducing the efficacy of something because they don't believe in themselves. Oh, and so then instead of creating the placebo effect where it amplifies in is assistive, it's the opposite antagonist. So they decrease the efficacy, some treatment or whatever.
Right. Because they don't have personal belief in it. Okay. Right. Even though they're administering it. Well, it's like a doctor with a low success rate of administering chemo. Right. Might begin to lose faith that you will in the chemo and then that that lack of faith or belief for them. So they're not championing it. Right. It trickles down to the, to the patient patients who don't have the science and need a little bit of the faith.
Right, right. So, you know, you start to talk to the doctor empirically if you're going through some type of, you're going through you're going through a cancer treatment, then you have to take your chemo or whatever. And the immunologist that gets assigned to you. Right. Let's say you're really empirical guy. And you know how these effects work on the mind.
And stuff like that. Or you start to say, okay, I want to I want to select my immunologist on track, record a track record only. Yeah, because I'm not going to believe in the placebo or the nocebo effect. It's not going to work on me because I know how the trick works. Okay. Right. So, so I'm just going to based solely on the immunologist with the best track record, highest success rate of cure, but what you end up with somebody who has a high success rate of care, but no bedside manner whatsoever.
Okay, how are they getting the result then? I mean, yeah, most effective use of the treatment, right? Right. And the most scientific like for someone else on their team that's offering the, the other component. Right. That is essential to recovery. I don't know what to call it. Yeah. They mean the immunologist is so good, right? She realized that she doesn't have a good bedside manner, but then appropriate that through a colleague.
Right. Yeah. Still creates that element for the person. She realizes that she's a nocebo type person. So she engages with a whole bunch of people that are great at bringing invoking the placebo. Yeah. Effect. Because you knowing that those are real things in place, you need it. Yeah. There you go. You you need the patient to believe in the treatment, especially when it's, when the statistics say it's not in your favor.
You need the faith, right? Right. Or the variant of faith, like, yeah, for Sibo or whatever, you know. Right. Right, right. You know, the, the, the crash course on meditation because the meditation is known to supplement the treatment. Right, right, right. Because you're going to keep your body calm, you're going to take in the, the oxygen you need.
You're going to all the systems in your body. You're going to work better because of your meditation. So there's a version of psychic, idea that I heard as a kid that, really stuck with me is that this boy had a brain tumor, and he had his little X-Wing fighter in his room, and he had the X-ray of the tumor.
He had a printout of the X-ray of the tumor. Yeah. And he was flying the X-Wing around all the time shooting the tumor in his play, and he said, yeah, that's play. Yeah. And miraculously, the tumor without treatment had shrunk dramatically very rapidly. Right, right. This is like, maybe this is just sensationalized or oh, I mean, I heard something similar, but, it was with Ghostbusters.
Okay, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Sure, sure. So what I'm saying is that, you know, enough chains, enough like, evidence of these type of things, right? Like, like a child that play, invoking a physiological response. I 100% believe that could happen. No, no, that's what I'm saying. It seems within the realm of, like, mind over matter.
Oh, I saw was hilarious. It's got the gnomes. Yeah. So plays into the idea of mind over matter in an effective way. Yeah, it really does. I mean, to where there actually could be some legitimacy there. So you could imagine this really cool futuristic hybrid approach where it's like the chemo targeted radiation in certain doses, immunotherapy radiation combined with meditation combined with play, the child being directed in certain types of play.
Yeah. And maybe even the adult. Yeah. Direct it in these thought exercises. These. Right. All working in concert to achieve the mind over matter combined with the traditional treatment and that is. I feel like that's the ultimate of embracing I don't know, but. Amen, brother. Amen. Amen. But I'm talking about appears to have some activist efficacy. So let's employ it.
Let's employ it and then study it and and get better and better at it. Get it quantified, get it empirical to where inevitably it becomes an actual concrete. And I guess that's what I'm saying. I don't want to miss out on that. But you don't miss out on it by saying, I don't know. That's what I'm saying, right?
If you truly say, I don't know and accept it, bring in and analyze all things. But if you use I don't know what you. No, no, no, you can't bring in it. Analyze all things. That's exhaustive. It's impossible. Okay, I'm not saying all things, but you be open to all possibilities. For all possibilities. That's totally fair. And that's what I don't know does that's I don't know is the placeholder for saying I'm open to anything that could potentially work.
Yeah. Because I don't know. Right, right. I mean, you know what I say, I do know I run into trouble and I guess what I'm saying. But I know God will handle it, right? Oh, there we go. Jesus, take the wheel. Yeah, well, now you're in the fucking ditch. And I guess what I'm saying try it. Excluding things like ESP, excluding things like psychic stuff to rather say it's probably not true is is, I think the better position because we may come across a situation, maybe a limited one where it is true.
Sure, there's nothing wrong, even though people take it so terribly. There's nothing wrong with saying I don't think the data, the data that I'm aware of doesn't suggest that's true. Yeah, but you say that to some people and you might as well say fuck you and your soul, I hate you. Dive on the heart, right? But that's what they hear.
Yeah, yeah. Because that's a big threat to their worldview, their house of cards that they've predicated a lot of their ideas upon, you know? And I mean, the more you describe it, it really does come across as the fragility of a house of cards. Yeah. So like last night, I prepared this big, huge outline of like, talking points and topics to really break down the subject, get down to the kind of nitty gritty we're talking about now.
And I wasn't even to touch a third of the list because. Because people were talking about like, oh, like, I know, I know because I had this experience. So does that usually happen? I mean, I would imagine you're not able to get through most of your talking points most of the time. No, I normally do get through them.
Okay. But I should have known better in this domain because it had it was too generalized. Right. The the topic was the search for superpowers. Like with asking begging the question, why does mankind systematically continue to cling to anything into, like this idea of supernatural, right? Why? It's because we haven't been intellectually taught. We haven't been educated to to think in this, I don't know, fashion.
Right? With this, the beauty of the empirical mind, the beauty of the logical mind hasn't been celebrated, endorsed and taught. It's rather been, Sunday school is what people get. Yes. And they don't get Sunday logic here. You get Sunday school, which is, you know, God did this. Why that? You know, but logic is two by two couched is cold.
And I don't think it has to be cold. It just has to be shown as a tool you can employ. So why don't we create a Sunday school? Literally a literally free Sunday school that teaches logic, critical thinking, and skeptical skeptical thinking. Okay, yeah. For kids and allow a non boy Scout format or non clergy format. So molestation is not a part of it.
So okay. All right I'm being serious here. Just throw the conversation. I would love to prevent molestation in those situations. How do you prevent it when you have someone imbued with such authority by gosh, simply so easy? You do the same thing that you do with the kids. You employ the logic, employ skepticism, and you employ empirical means, and you put a fucking camera.
In essence, you monitor, you put a camera. Yeah. You monitor people. All the people congregate to this place on Sunday and their children are experiencing this, these, these thought experiments and logic and reason, critical thinking and skepticism. And we monitor and the whole thing is I'm recording. Yeah. And that's how you solve it. Yeah. And nobody's allowed to have one on ones.
Right. Nobody's ever come out of the room, so to speak. Yeah. If there was the camera in the locker room at the YMCA or in the back room in the priest's den with the choir boy, or in the tent with the fucking scout, you wouldn't have this bullshit. You're right. But, hey, you take these fucking scumbags and you put them to the light of God, put them out in the light.
And they they either scurry for the corner or don't do their bullshit or don't act like roaches, right? Don't act like scumbags. And so that's how you do it. You say, look at your kids are completely protected. You drop them off. The whole thing is watchable on on that you can view the stream. Absolutely, absolutely. Okay. And we do this to protect your kids.
We do this protect ourselves, and we do it to protect the the integrity of what's being offered. Yeah. And I mean, not only could you know and I'm sure and they're not doing it at Sunday school and that's all you need to know. Because they don't want their bullshit exposed. We're opening our stuff to the light. We're saying we're saying go ahead.
And more than likely there'll be handouts or digital materials or things that the parents can look at or audit to if they want. Why not? You know, if you record the sessions, then you have an enduring, you know, piece of evidence on how nothing bullshit went down. And maybe your record, it says that it's in a format that you can, you know, try to other.
Right, right, right. Refine enhance, propagate. Yeah. Expand. Like create courses out of it. So we so I just invented it this morning. We need a new version of Sunday school for logic, skeptical skepticism and reason. And navigating the modern world that's filled with misinformation, that's filled with misinformation and dangerous faith. That last thing, navigating the modern world that's loaded with misinformation and dangerous faith claims.
Yeah, there's the tagline. And, you know, maybe we don't start with that. Oh, that's the last tagline because no, it well, oh, you guys, I feel like if you I feel like if you say dangerous verse three thing, you'll get more people. Okay. A dangerous faith claim is when you tell a kid that you're going to hell because you had a bad thought.
True. That is a dangerous faith. You're going to hell because you cussed or that is a dangerous faith claim. You're putting a terror, a terror in the kid's mind to draw people in and not seem extreme. We leave that off. The tagline is all we want to draw people in first, then we go extreme. What's there there when we're setting it up for debate, whether that third verse of eating or not.
Awesome. Good one, good one.