0:01 Well did their bitter best buy his bitter because they've lost so much to Amazon that, you know, they have to start getting people for parking fines or any other fees they can to, to, to stay afloat. Right. That's what I'm that's what I'm hoping isn't the case.

0:19 Because, you know, even ten years ago people were going to Best Buy to shop and see the product and then buying it on Amazon while they were there. Right.

0:30 Family Guy did the funniest thing with that with the mattress. I don't know if he saw that they didn't, like cut away where Peter and Lois go to the like matches. Some like, you know, physical brick and mortar mattress place. Yeah. And they're trying out the different mattresses, and, Peter's like, I gotta try it with my cap machine on.

0:48 Oh, no. I see berries before I go to sleep. And that is, eating berries with a c pap machine on is getting in everywhere. And, you know, they decide they like that one. And then, they just ordered on. It was on. And you see the drone fly by the window with the mattress. Oh that's funny.

1:08 The height of convenience. Yeah. They had no intention whatsoever, you know, buying it there. Just just just to see which one they liked. Yeah. I hope I went to jail for, Maria's mattress this weekend and actually purchased from a brick and mortar store. Oh, you're being serious. Yeah. You bought a new Max. I did. What was wrong with yours?

1:33 Rats and poop. Oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm like animals in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. That's it. Not just animal. Not just animal thing happening on the mattress. Just definitely rats and mice. The one of the exterminators thought there might have been a score.

1:53 That's fantastic. So how does this place. There's a place here called European Wax Center. How does a place like that like, you know, pay for their extremely expensive storefront? You know, like, my gosh. Yes. Makes a water bean coffee. You know how much you know, much waxing. They must have to be doing to, like, or drug fronting or happy ending.

2:17 Yeah, I don't know. I don't, I don't know, I don't, I don't, don't know and probably don't want to know about all that. Yeah. But yeah. Either that or the waxing is like. Oh yeah. You're paying 350 bucks. It's like insane. Like the, like the the lady finally gets rid of the mustache. That's it's so problematic or. Yeah, you get it.

2:38 You're getting the nether regions done in such a, you know, wonderful way. Yes. Enhances something for you. I don't know, getting getting your hair removal around my butt crack. Yeah. I've never had like, I've never had my eyebrows threaded and I've never, like, you know, bleached my anus. Yeah, that's exactly what I was going to do. I've never even had, like, a massage.

3:01 Like a formal massage. So I had not had a full massage until about a year and a half ago. With Summer. She took me to play something like, this is stupid, I don't want to do this. And dear God, this is amazing. Yeah. So I never had never had a massage. I've never been like, been had a manicure.

3:21 Right? I was just like, had seen her haircuts. It's like all I've ever had. Right. And then, you know, we've been to one of those men's grooming lounges where they do to the hot towel and stuff. Well, the closest I've come to that is like, sports clips where they put, like, the BP. Yeah, or whatever, you know, they like triple play or something like that.

3:42 That's it. And, I guess envy. I've done the MVP, I think, before too. And they take out the stupid massage gun at the end and put it on your back, and it's like nothing, right? It doesn't do anything. Yeah. Like, what am I going to do with that. Yeah. So yeah. So for me it was a kind of useless.

4:02 So I just tell them not even to bother with that because, yeah, it's so weak. It used to tell them the same thing. Mean it's the massage guns they have now are awesome. And they definitely don't have one of the awesome ones. So two years ago Sue bought me a for Christmas as just one of the gifts. You got me like a massage thing and with all these different attachments and whatnot.

4:22 Yeah, you know, it's got a couple of them that can kind of get in there. Yeah, but, my back is just so broad and gnarly that it's like. It's like brambles or whatever. It's it's just, I don't know, like, the kids can just walk on me with their knees and on my back and it's, you know, is it feel better?

4:43 They do just hardly does anything. So I have this nervy back. It's weird. Well, I'll tell you, the last massage thing that summer dragged. Me too. I think I've done, like, two of them now. This guy wanted to fucking rearrange my back. I sure there was, like, a vertebrae somewhere around L5 or so that he was just not happy with it.

5:09 Okay. And he just kept fucking with it, and, he, like, I. And I left that place feeling like a god. No kidding. Like, like, three inches taller. And. Yeah, I felt like I could do anything in life. Now it's like poop sick. You, like, went poop six times because everything is loosened up. I do that anyway. I'm.

5:29 I'm the shit in this person, but, yeah, I would, I would need somebody to, like, get in there with their elbow and like, oh, dude, take it to me. I'm telling you, this was medium. Get anything out of it? And he was just beating me. He tenderize the shit out of me. I could have been like a five Wagyu beef at that point.

5:51 Nice. Cool. So. So, so is this, like, a thing now? Like you go for massages? No, I've only been twice, I see. So, so good. Why don't you. Why? Can you continue to go more and more? No, no. It's expensive. Okay. All right. It's, somewhere around a dollar a minute. Okay. And, I think it was like $1.25 a minute.

6:17 The last time we went, that was it. They they did everything. I mean, it was like. Your back, your shoulders, your legs, your feet. Cool, man. All right. It was like head to toe. I'll have to get it someday. Let's try that. Oh, yeah. But I don't know if I'd have a dude. Dude, I don't know, like,

6:39 Not that I'm not comfortable with myself. It's just I if I'm paying, I think I'd rather have. Right, right. And, I mean, I'm sure there were plenty of ladies employed by them. The first time I had a lady. The second time it was a dude. I he was there. He was the tiniest little guy. I'm like, how the fuck is he going to do this?

6:59 I mean, he just bust out this massive amount of rolling. He's got like, Popeye forearms. Yeah. You expect him to be all boys, like, get on the table? No, I don't know if it was a stick around, but it didn't seem like any of the missus went to their missus. Went to any effort to speak English. Yeah. Everything got interpreted by the hostess.

7:24 Interesting. Okay. Okay. Well, I heard about this thing when I was in Russia where they have this, like, spot. It's like all men are. And, you lay down on this like you steam bath. I think whatever you lay down on this table and sky comes out and whips your back with a tree branch. Oh, no. And supposedly it's insane.

7:45 Like, so good. Like it basically. Like, I don't know, it's like getting flogged, but not, you know, like, really injured. Just the massage factor. Right? So you're being flogged with this tree branch and it feels good. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's like really popular. And people swear by it. Yeah. All right. Yeah, but it was Russia. What do you expect?

8:10 Yeah, I mean, that probably feels good to a lot of things you'll experience in Russia, you know. Yeah I would love to have a I would love to have an experience like go to Brazil or someplace like, I don't know. So someplace like just novel associated with, like, awesome beaches and resort type. Yeah. You know, Caribbean style or, you know, I don't know why Brazil just resonates, but, I mean, Brazil resonates for me because of the beauty and butts they produce.

8:41 Yeah. Just like getting some hyper massage right on the beach or something. Yeah, that'd be awesome. Coconut oil or some shit. Yeah, man, now we're talking maybe, like, you know, with all this podcast money. Well. Oh, he's. I don't like that up some day I was talking to my brothers and, their wives yesterday about stuff from my grandparents and coming up with some solutions collectively.

9:05 And I told him about the podcast. Right. Yeah. And, yeah, one of my brothers was, Colt. He was kind of like talking mild shit about it. Then they all started talking about things they think we could do. Yeah, they're like, guys, you do like YouTube shorts. You should do. You should do this. You should do that.

9:29 They're like, you should hire somebody to, animate parts of it or. Yeah. So, you're like, okay. You volunteering? Yeah. Right. Right. And my brother Tristan, he does. Okay. He's got this interesting pet project of creating, like, this fake nostalgia video game. Like it? He he's creating these, like, eight bit video games that never existed.

10:00 Oh, okay. Using Adobe Premiere. That's interesting. So it's like video trailers for things that never were, well, really there. He's like combining all these different characters and all their animations for the games and, you know, making up new games like just out of his imagination. Yeah, yeah. Okay. That's kind of cool. But using like these existing characters and everything.

10:23 He did a video. He also makes music and he did a video for one of his songs, and he, ended up making this a.

10:36 Like, designing a computer and, and I guess an operating system experience and everything with it. This dusty, old, moldering piece of technology in this basement that just comes on as the song comes on and it's like the computer is the only thing in the video how, like going through, booting up and doing all these different things.

11:02 How strangely sounding, but interesting. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Okay. That's pretty cool. Well, so I'm doing something real soon. That's, I think going to be kind of remarkable is that, one of my daughter's friends has a pretty huge following on Minecraft, right? And, so, like, you know, pretty big, like, do live streams and have thousands and thousands of people on at a time, right?

11:28 Oh, wow. Well, I pitched in pitching the idea to them on Sunday to build something in Minecraft, partner with with an existing nonprofit that does like these community works around the world. Sure. Like, you know, like there's nonprofits and whatnot out there that like, build a well where people have no fresh water. Yeah, things like that. And, link up with one of these nonprofits and do a special event in the Minecraft with all of her followers and have it be they build in Minecraft in this session.

12:03 Like this. Well, in the community that it's going in. So it's like habitat for humanity, Minecraft style. Yeah, virtually. Right. With the sponsorship and the people that come and participate and they pledge the money goes to actually doing it in real life. Oh, so then there's like a real life connection to what they build in Minecraft translates into, a real work for humanity.

12:27 So it's like gaming for good, right? Yeah. It's like it's like taking your followers and rallying them and getting all their support and having them rally other people. So I'll come together for for a real cause in real life, emulated in the game. But then the money from that, from the event that you raised during the event goes to doing it in real life.

12:48 Right? That's pretty cool. Yeah. And so I'm going through going through them on Sunday. Just kind of the vision of the whole thing in the start. Talk about already. I already have like half a dozen nonprofits that are would be good, good ones to select from to partner with and cool a lot of work so far on it.

13:07 Yeah. And it looks like it's going to be kick off the the girl that has the followers is like super stoked about the idea. Okay, so she already knows the idea. Yep. They're just kind of bringing in more details at this point. Yeah. So I like kind of went through the general idea with Megan and she mentioned it to her friend.

13:26 Her friend was like over the moon about it. So we'll see. So on it that that'd be something awesome, right? Yeah, absolutely. So, so I'm offering the nonprofit as a, as a vessel to, to organize it under, like. Well, yeah. You say Webb's cool. Okay, okay. Just so that they have, because we're a legitimate 503 C, right.

13:47 We've already done works around the world before. So. So yes. And partners somewhere. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. That needs wells drilled and set up. And so you guys will be able to be facilitators basically. Right. So it'd be like yeah. Yeah. Facilitators is the right work. Not like middlemen. Anything more like agents. Yeah. Yeah. You get the right people together, the right money together.

14:17 You make it happen. Yeah. So we're talking about, like, going, going for, and actually pretty well, well planned out. Well administrative and actually going for media coverage and trying to make it really big. Okay. So that it's so that it has, you know, fully funded it. Everything works as expected. And Megan's talking about like, hey, after after it's all together, maybe we can make a trip.

14:44 We'll see the damn well. Yeah, yeah, let's see what we did in real life and then, have it be like a feedback thing. So all the imagery and stuff goes back on the website and everyone I see, and then, if it goes really well, no pun intended. Do more and more of it. Right. Yeah.

15:03 Well, good. What? Did we not take that staircase because I was supposed to do? Or is it closed off response to that staircase down there, or is it. It's all closed off. I mean, what's going on? We can walk down there. Yeah, I think that's what we're supposed to go down there.

15:22 I don't know, I didn't I didn't see if we could get in there or not anyway. So where are we? That's right there. My, very for asking. Yeah. Spins off one. They were asking, you know, what do we talk about? Is this this rambling thing? And then two of you said Dresden was suggesting all this stuff, and he might be able to help with, say, maybe some animations or maybe some of the ideas.

15:56 Okay. And then, but, Colt was basically like, hold this road do is that you guys inevitably have if you're walking, you do something about it. He's like, that's a turn off of me. I was like, well, we filter it and try to massage it, but, you know, it happens. It's still doing. I have a stack in Adobe Premiere or it comes out pretty good.

16:20 I have a I have a filter stack in Adobe Audition and it was what it's called. And, it's, you know, just about probably 80% of it down town, down a little bit. Yeah. I mean, I was listening that a couple last night and a lot of the all you really hear is like birds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, like this kind of stuff.

16:45 You're gonna hear some noise. Oh, yeah. So trails been washed out where we're trying to rename this thing today, but we'll find the best spot inevitably where it is just birds surfing. Inevitably, there's got to be the right place. I think we could just keep watching. And we're. There was an error today of old ladies. Was town walking?

17:10 Yeah. Well, from what I understand, this goes all the way to Freedom Park. Okay. Yeah. Oh, we can't just with your road. Yeah, that's that's inevitably what we tried to do, right?

17:26 So I'm trying to I'm trying to like, get these young people, like, really into this idea of taking the finding creative ways to take their recreation time and turn it into something. Right. Very positive things that some may judge as being a waste of time turn into actually something that has an impact on the real world. Absolutely. And so this is just one idea I had some other ideas for like, micropayments and games going to these like exact causes.

17:59 So like, let's say that you're in this, you're in this environment where you're like fighting, you're fighting like demons that have emerged from the, from the, from the earth in this area. And the demons are associated with pollution, right? And you go through with teams and you have to, like, beat the beat, different mobs and whatnot.

18:19 So maybe the extending the idea of Microsoft Minecraft biomes to the idea of, hey, each one of these biomes or areas, you kill things in it or you find items in it, you earn micropayments for whatever charity is associated with the biome. Right, exactly. And so then you go through and actually, like, play a game with fun that has actually legitimate, like difficult quests and stuff like this.

18:45 And then the in-game currency that you can purchase, right, to defeat some of these harder bosses make make it easier to win, right? Actually goes to micropayments to the charity's that are doing the real projects in real life. Like really cleaning up, really seeding. So take the scourge on the gaming industry that is paid to win and loot boxes.

19:07 Yeah. So instead of raise the pay to win kind of mentality, but you're paying to win for humanity. Like, you know, doing something good for people. Yeah. You know, I think there's a lot of potential there because I mean, it's definitely, you know, why not? Why not be like, why not? Why not have it to where you're gaming?

19:29 Dollars or tax deductible? Because they're charitable contributions, right? Right. I mean, that would be kind of nice. There's a it reminds me of a.

19:43 Kind of like, Humble Bundle. There's. They do that already. Okay, so no, not the exact same thought. They do something different. Basically, they bundle books or digital assets or, you know, for games, for tutorials or whatever, and then will you buy it? You have like, tears. So let's say you want it only four books out of the 12 that were available.

20:13 Okay. Right, right. Then you could pay $9 I and then you can decide what portion of that goes to charity. I see and they have like three different causes every bundle. Not yet. Yeah. So I'm just like, you know, really, really into the idea of all these potential creative solutions to find ways to take entertainment and convert it into actual, you know, do some good shit in the world.

20:43 Yeah, you know, type of thing. It's like, everybody wins. People are going to be doing the perpetual entertainment thing anyway. That's clearly the trend line. So. Well, we've always been doing something similar. For sure. It hasn't been as obvious and it hasn't been as much of a time sink. And it much of our time hasn't been put toward it.

21:04 But we've always done something to recreate. Yeah. So you could imagine, like the scenario where, you know, someone organizes a tournament of some kind and the, you know, the, the, the, the part of the big part of the prize goes to the charity of choice, you know, type stuff that's been happening all the time. But this, you know, digital domain offers a whole new frontier of the possibilities.

21:26 And, I mean, you could also you take what you're doing and offer. Like you said, he's micropayments these parties. He's in games. Sure. And then you could also he had a store do the same thing. Humble bundles doing micropayments to or a sliding scale where you choose how much goes to charity there. Yeah. Now obviously there's like if it starts to get any kind of traction, you immediately start to encounter all these wrinkles, right?

21:56 Like so for example, you have this like you wouldn't want to turn this off. So, you know, you have this nice flow of revenue coming in for some charitable, you know, stream of charity coming into this year, the stream of charity coming into this, you know.

22:15 You know, metropolitan area in sub-Saharan Africa or something like this and more or less the people that have kind of started to rely on the charity. And then these a bunch of gamers decide they like some other game better. And now that whole thing gets turned off does not mean, well, you can get the scenario. That's my only I'm just build a dependency.

22:41 But like you, you wouldn't want to cut it off if the. I guess my only deal here is, well, you have to focus on to mitigate that. And this is hard and difficult. And I'm not saying my words make it possible, but spoken on.

22:59 Building things that create wealth or create value or create resource. Yeah. Rather than create the focus on throwing money into a black hole. Yeah. Right, right. Well, I mean, something tangible like, you know, building a well that's, you know, obviously. Right. You create things that are good, bring value, that adds the community that no one person or group that depends on.

23:25 Sure, they're going to spend on maintenance for the. Well, yeah. But yeah, it probably have some kind of long term idea about long term support. Yeah. And so maybe that's the deal. All the things you build, you kind of build in a cost that, hey, we built this well, but we also built in maintenance for ten years or five years or two years.

23:48 Yeah. That's going to be the big advantage with working with it, partnering with an existing non-profits. We're doing all the stuff because we already have all that stuff down to science and have a formula for all that. So yeah, and find somebody who works in the area and knows what things cost and knows how to find the right people who aren't going to rip you off.

24:06 Yeah. And there's something to say about like, I don't know, like the whole Greta, Greta Thunberg. And, you know, it's like child advocate type, almost like the Joan of Arc of modern times, you know, kind of like these young people taking initiative to doing something good in the world. Yeah, it's like it's kind of like, ridiculously inspirational.

24:29 As hard as a, as an adult to not not be like, envious or otherwise really enthused by, you know, young people doing things like this. Yeah. Because it's like, you know, I didn't have the I all I could do when I was a kid was like, you know, pick up trash or something, right? My local neighborhood.

24:54 Right. I couldn't have, like, some kind of, like, global impact. You could have worked for pit. You could, join up with an organization that sponsored a road, you know? Yeah. There was only, like, you know, local classes that you can get involved with some extent. Well, nothing like this. And nothing. Even when I was a kid. Okay, we had in Maryland.

25:18 Whatever I where I graduated high school, they had you required to do so many volunteer hours. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But, and so I had to get there requirement was.

25:33 There was like 65 hours, which, you know, and that was the kids got I think it was like 65 hours a year or something. Yeah, sure. So I had to do all of mine like severe year. Yeah. Gotcha. And, but the thing was, there wasn't very many opportunities that they even had kids. We had her coupler. Right.

25:57 So I was doing the volunteer work at schools. Yeah. Yeah, why? I heard it was a kind of a caucus moving into that school system, but I pretty much had all my credit stuff. Yeah. So I had half a day where I didn't have classes. Gotcha, gotcha. So I was volunteering at the school, in the library, in the computer lab and here there to get the hours.

26:24 And it was like, but there just wasn't even a community that was focused on volunteer work. Still didn't bother to create the opportunities to volunteer. Yeah, it's it's amazing because the, demand for, you know, charitable need is so high and the actual like, willingness to provide it is so high, but there's just not a good still, to this day, there's not a good logistical connection between those two, those two domains.

26:51 I mean, I guess the concept the comes on to mind for me here is if someone could be an on ramp that was discoverable and appealing for this generation. Sure. And that could very well be, like you said, the digital domain gaming, things like that. Well, I had this model for years. And I have lots of documentation about like the how to, how to build a system around this idea of what I call just in time volunteering.

27:22 So like, just like having manufacturing have just in time shipping, right? Like I or just in time inventory control, whatever. But the idea of just in time volunteering is like, you wake up on a Saturday morning and you're like, what do you want to do today? I don't know, what do you want to do today? Type thing and say, hey, let's check such and such app, go in there.

27:40 And all of a sudden there's like a whole bunch of things you can do right now. Yeah. Like you don't have to sign up two weeks in advance. There's no big. You can just go do it. Yeah, right. And be here by 1130. Yeah. And, I went down pretty deep. Pretty deep design process with that. One of the one of the builds I was going to do and, gets pretty, pretty detailed pretty quick when you get down the weeds because, like, you know, how do you how do you certify people's hours?

28:08 How do you get, like, these things that happen organically but have them not be abused, right. Like, you know, someone just needs they're there, their lawn mower or their leaves rake or something like that. And so they create a charity event. You know, on the, on the app. Right. And get them with a free labor, you know, kind of idea.

28:29 It's, you know, how do you temp that down. You know, you do you work with assisting not in profits, existing corporations, organizations. I mean I would think that would be your bread and butter. Really understanding what events are already out there and already orchestrated and then, you know, sure, you want some kind of organic thing, but you may have to limit it to individuals can't pull this out of their ass because I guess, I mean, if it's like, is that something to refuse to an individual?

28:59 Yes. I basically worked out all the finer details of that. I have it still in my repository of one of the digital projects someday. Oh, yeah. And, I, I think that as of right now, the kind of the big idea for social media is just going to integrate it into their. Well, some of the tenets of this, you know, because social media has the has all the ingredients.

29:20 The big that cake. Yeah, it has all the reach. It has all the appeal, it has all the stickiness. Abusers attention that you need. Right. And but just in time, volunteering can really go down to the organic level so you can have like, you know, somebody wakes up and says, man, I really need help with something, right?

29:39 Yeah. And it's like legit. It's not like, you know, let me get a whole bunch of free labor. It's like 75 year old man who. Really? Right, right, right. Exactly. And says, you know, is anyone out there in the community willing to help me come over today? Help me. I have the rakes, I have the tarps and have whatever leaf blowers, whatever the case may be.

29:58 Yeah, or I don't. Yeah, right. Next thing you know, three, three, three crews show up, right? Yeah. I mean, hell, yeah. Right. And, you know, build community, make decisions around the idea of helping each other out.

30:16 So with my social media platform, I have the idea of, of, like, micro quests, you know, built into it to, like, daily ideas. So, you know, you throw in their, this idea of like, hey, write a handwritten letter to one of your relatives, like, like I remember about this. Yeah, that's today's prompt, right? Right. For no reason, you know, for no reason.

30:40 Oh, you don't get you don't get much exercise for no reason today. Go walk three miles. All right. Or, you know, it might take your account. The fact you don't do much and you aren't going to do a five K from the couch, right? So, hey, want today? It's like, hey, we're going to give you a plan over the next five days.

31:00 You're going to eventually walk through miles. Start today doing a. Yeah right. All all all like you know scaled to the individual. You know, what they say about themselves and what the social media platform learns about the person. Yeah. And, maybe, maybe the opposite to maybe it's like, play a video game, you know, like someone that doesn't do that or, like, write a song.

31:23 Well, and then, also these, like, really interesting friend to friend prompts, right? So, like, I had this idea for like friend or friend prompts that are, that are automated. So in other words, it's like the system asks me a question that I'm going to answer to you, right? It asks the the system asks a question on your behalf.

31:44 And by me answering the question, you learn something about me right out of the blue. Yeah. And so you're trying to. So when I send those social connections. Exactly. So when I answer the pump, I get credit for the daily prompt. And, you then get a piece of information in your inbox that, like, you never expect it came out of the blue girl or each other.

32:07 Me to this piece of information almost goes into an automated dossier, right? And it creates, like your own personal journal of your activities and your in of your life for your stuff. I'm saying, does the relationship building idea include logging this piece of information for you only in your personal journal? It's not like it's not like, you know, the world gets to see this, right?

32:35 Right. I'm just thinking about it's an automated version of, say, something like what Bill Clinton used to do, which is, hey, he would take notes about all the people who met and, you know, hey, they have a, you know, this person in Arkansas who's well connected here has a daughter named Susie. She's about to start college in a year, things like that.

32:59 Why not? Right. Why not have it be searchable and and prompt you for, like, life events and things like that? Right. So help you say better connected to people. That's because that's the idea. Because I mean, yeah, that's the whole point. That's it helps you facilitate and build and strengthen your social network. Right. So let's say that for of the blue, the system prophecy was something unusual, like, you're going to be answering this question to Sean's right.

33:26 And here's your question. When is the last time that you sang to somebody? Yeah. Who was it and what did you sing? When? When was it right? It probably be never or never on purpose. Hahaha. Well, so the idea is like, that's the problem, right? And so Mahlon Adams Pavilion. All right.

33:52 You know, just, just, just randomly like something that you wouldn't think to ever communicate about this person. Right? Right. And then the communication happens or doesn't. It's up to you. You can choose to ignore. Right. I don't have to do anything, you know. Well, maybe you can hit a button and generate another front. Like. I hate that one.

34:08 Yeah, sure. Sure, sure. Right. So at the end of the day, you know, you, your friend gets to gets to know something unusual and obscure and has that connection point that you wouldn't have had otherwise. Yeah. And I think that's pretty powerful. Yeah. So we can get on we can get it on the Greenway right here.

34:32 In theory. Right. If this ain't open or not, hopefully you can have a recording that, it's cleaner. So we're right at freedom, Clark. Yeah, right. We'll see what happens. And so much rain. I wouldn't be surprised if everything's wash out. Yeah. I mean, maybe we can stick sidewalks. Then we'll see what happens. I mean, if it's open, then it's.

34:57 It's usable. Yeah. We'll see.

35:02 So we can talk we can talk about that topic for, you know, but it's kind of boring. It's just it's filled with, like, in the weeds detail. I mean, sure. So I didn't have a pre talk today because I wasted our time. So, you know, it's greenways close. Oh, yeah. So we gotta hit the could walk. Sure.

35:22 We can just do Freedom Park. Yeah, it is open. Yeah. Strangely, yeah. I don't know why I'd be open. Sorry, but it is. That's great. Yeah. So anyway, on on to, like, broader topics that are more germane to our normal, right? Well, yeah. Yeah, but, I mean, we we could still keep talking about this, and we didn't have a, you know, an outline today or an idea of what we're going to do.

35:47 So I guess to answer my brother Colt's question yesterday, we don't always have a plan. And we do occasionally do a random walk, much like a slime mold or what have you. We're back to slime mold.

36:06 But I read them some of the titles of some of the things in terms of descriptions. They were like, wow, that's, that sounds impressive. I like this idea. Okay, let's get on to interesting topics. Love this idea of like, you know, the bioethicists who's who's, like, cutting edge and some, you know, think tank where all the latest dances are being discussed openly in a, in a, in a roundtable, you know, kind of format.

36:35 And the bioethicist is sitting there and here's this. And, and here comes in some representatives from DARPA or something. Right. And they're talking about the, for the last 20 years, they've been working on these, like, augmented and enhanced humans, you know, like the ultimate soldier kind of idea. All right. And, so we're talking about a modern version of Hitler's Uber.

36:59 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right. With, with, like, you know, all the techniques of genetic engineering and all the like, you know, we have the technology. Yeah, yeah. It's like zeros and rebuild the zero sum game thing of like, you know, if if we don't do it or enemies are going to do it, therefore we need to do it first kind of modeling.

37:17 Right. And all these like, just completely ethnic sidelining because the mission is more important than kind of near. Sure. And, the bioethicist sitting there and hearing all this stuff in this idea of, like, all these proto humans that are being created through this lab, it's been thousands and thousands of iterations and different experimental, approaches, right?

37:43 Like combining animal DNA with human DNA. I hope that, God, they're not actually stupid. Shit wall.

37:53 They probably are. You want to try this since it's open? Yeah, but I mean, like. And, you know, we got to be clear, like, let's not get into this idea, right? Right. And let's not get into the conspiracy theory of it either, because that's not what we're trying to hawk, you know, but we're trying to say the idea that the government may be looking at augmenting Youmans in some way.

38:16 Well, and we've been talking a lot about how this is most likely inevitable. Well, right. So, like, you know, you are we kind of talked about this last podcast, our symbiotic relationship with technology, which it may be coming increasingly obvious that that's the case. We rely on it and it relies on us even in its current incarnation. Yes.

38:41 I had this long conversations with this group of people when I was doing. Nova Scotia regularly. We kept coming back to this recurring idea of agency. So, like people assigning agency to things that are conceptual, right? And, it was really interesting. Kept going back to it. Let me give you an example. Right. You have, like a male and a female or two people in their partnered up and they're getting married.

39:09 Right. Well, they now have their individual agency. Right. Person name. This person. Name not. Okay. But then they also have this new agency which is like their their marriage, their bond union built and on multiple levels. Right, right. And so that new agency almost like created a new entity that is just fictitious anyway. Well, I created a new legal entity, right?

39:39 That it didn't think right, like a corporation would be a collection of people, of course, but also an entity unto itself. But does that entity have agency like a person? Well, the Supreme Court says, yes, you know. Well and but you know, but common sense says no, but the, the, the legal entity but it's a marriage. Doesn't have has certain legal obligations.

40:03 Right. It may not have free agency but it has, you know, obligations now that it's in existence. Yeah. Yeah. And so like you know Sue and Chris is different from Sue and Chris, right. Yeah. It's like it's it's like it's it's new agent. And we do this all the time in our minds, like so seamlessly. Like we say, you know the government, right?

40:27 You know what? We we chunk things together. That's what we kind of have to do as human beings, right? To hold things in our minds, we have to kind of chunk things together, working a higher level of abstraction. Yeah, but at the end of the day, none of these things really have any kind of real agency, right? They're just collections of people that have certain roles, you know, defined roles.

40:47 Right. Which is why most conspiracy security is out the gate, because I see most of these. They as really just a loose collection of people kind of pulling in a similar direction. Sure. And so you'll be getting to these conversations about, you know, what they're doing. You know what they're doing. You know, like, for example, we start talking about advanced AI.

41:11 Oh, you know, what they're doing right now in AI is. Well, who are they that we're talking about, right. And you know. Yeah. And we I think we do a fairly decent job of saying open AI or Bing or, you know, trying to talk about, but it becomes so nebulous, right? What it does, it does, it quickly becomes nebulous when you're because we using all these mental shortcuts, when we're talking with each other of who we mean by they.

41:36 And. Yeah, and like you said, because we kind of have to. But when I'm thinking that's got about to happen is we're about to step into this whole new domain of agency, right. Like, there's going to be like named AI's, like this is really happening. People say like ChatGPT Chuck GPT, right? Right. As if it's like some dude.

41:54 And it just means generative. Pattern transformer or something like that. Right. It's just a it's a placeholder name, just like any other name. Yeah. Right. For anything. But it's become a it's become a noun to refer to this thing. Right. And and to some extent it's starting to take on like this, this agency kind of idea.

42:16 Right. Yeah, yeah. And so I think what we're about to step into is humanity is this whole new, very bizarre to us to occur to imagination domain. Right. So you're going to have like, different, clusters or populations of eyes. Well, you're going to have different clusters and populations, perhaps biologically augmented proto humans. And I don't think it would be that different than what we have, because we already we already understand the concept of branding and putting your product forward.

42:48 And these things that come about Galactica from meta that eventually rescinded it because it was a piece of shit. You know, ChatGPT. GPT itself. Yeah, yeah. So so let's say, like. But their products. Yeah, let's say that, like, I'm kind of in my second suit, right? And my second suit has all these sensors and things, and it's like a virtual reality, you know, skin that it can jump into.

43:17 Right. Right. Like to to various movies have done something similar to that. Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So you jump into this thing jumping like your suit, you're putting like putting on your suit for the day. Like. Right. Like, if you were going into the office, you dress a certain way and have it. This avatar, which is your ideal look in your ideal, you know that.

43:35 And that's what to do when you get into the suit. Right? And then that facet, that's new facet that gets created through this technology layer of you becomes like that aging of you like that, that, that you has certain agency, like everybody in your work sphere knows you through that domain, like through that facet, like one of those movies that actually made Bruce Willis good looking.

43:57 Yeah, yeah. Nice. So I'm thinking like, this, future will be really composed of kind of this really strange, idea of agency. So, like, you'll only, you'll only interact or know certain facets, certain agents of different people, like, you'll see different facets of them. You'll see different aspects of them. Right. But I still think it's similar to what we have now.

44:23 It's an extension. It's not even something in my mind. I don't think it's wholly different. I think it's just taking it to the next conclusion. Right. So like right now, people very much so, because they curate their lives and they present things on social media like that. That's very true. But like just just naturally, like with group dynamics, right?

44:45 When you're in certain formats, you act differently than you do in other settings. Settings inform us. Right. If you're just up a certain way and you're at a certain type of function, you'll carry yourself an act in a different way than if you're at like, you know, a different function in a different uniform, you know, whatever. And we already present to the world, based on occupation or by recreation or by activity.

45:09 Proximity. Right. All these different kind of, like, sides of our personality. Right? Well, imagine that was amped up by technology, right? So, like, you do this all the time, right? Already in video games and in Z are and AR. But we're ready to do this. You know, you take on the persona of the character in first person. Yeah, right.

45:31 And not that you necessarily believe that you're this other person, but for some people do. Yeah. That's where some people's personality. You're right. It's much more right. It's much more intense for some people. And, you know, there's people that do this like playing Dungeons and Dragons, you know, they get so caught up in the role play of their character.

45:52 If one day their character dies, they, like, slip out, right? Right. Or markers that are doing it. Live action. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. There you go. And so I'm just thinking that we're about to enter into this era where so many different versions of, of you can be presented, I think. And it'd be it's it's nice. You know what?

46:13 We we can sell all these things that we're aberrant. All these things that were considered a little weird, all these things that were are, you know, all these formats that haven't been fully accepted, get integrated if this is fully realized. Yeah. And then and then, you know, you have to add in this wrinkle of all these other things that we're talking about that that people have assigned agency to like corporations and, you know, these, these, kind of collections of legal entities, right?

46:45 Then those things as well start to have all these different aspects and domains that they present in different formats as well. Yeah, yeah, it's a second life bullshit. All that knocked up. I mean, I hate all of it. I'm going to go ahead and say I can't stand the idea of any of it. I think a lot of people hate it.

47:01 But what I'm thinking is that the technology layer that's like kind of unfolding before our eyes right now is going to is going to just make this happen. What I like about it is that it's integrated all these things that you could argue were on the forefront of social evolution because they weren't accepted. The laughing, the, you know, getting into your video game character, the Dungeons and Dragons thing that people have had a problem with since its inception.

47:29 Yeah. All of that stuff. That is that we're opposing to be quiet. So I'm not sure. I didn't read it. It just had a pair of lips on it, you know. Oh, great. We could be, like, walking through neighborhoods, like, really disturbing people. That's fine. We do that every morning. Yeah. So one of the things I told my brothers, I, walk through early mornings screaming outside people's houses who definitely don't want it.

47:56 And, you talk a lot of me. That's why I always hold the recorder, because I'm, like, a little closer to it. And then it's somewhat balances out our. There we go, our volume. What? We'll take the time and read the sign up here. So ultimately, to me, you know, I like the fact that it's not by design but by accident ends up being more inclusive.

48:19 Yeah, I wasn't making any kind of suggestion of bad or good. I'm just saying I think it's I, I sense it coming. I sense coming like, oh, ashtray B tree. Okay, okay. That's a whole different. Okay. Yeah. It's nothing to do with this loudmouth. Okay. That's good. Cool. So, for real, though, like, I just sensed this, this new wave of of of all these new created entities are about to emerge.

48:46 Yeah. Like all these all these, NPCs, but are about to change our lives, really, when we look at what exists and we look at the ingredients of social media, and we look at the ingredients of these people creating synthetic lives or synthetic formats, that really is just an extension of what we have is an extension. But I think what we're about to do is we're about to get hit with like a nominee of NPCs, for lack of a better term.

49:15 I think we're what am I looking at? I don't know, is it like, oh, it's like a little silo there? Yeah. I mean, is this like our maintenance shack for the Parker? Yes. I don't know. I don't even know where we are to be. Honestly, I know we're just outside of Freedom Park. I don't really know. I think this is what we're looking for.

49:32 I mean, this is definitely the right thing that we need for our podcast is, like, not engines. And yeah, you know, singing always this is like pretty ideal. So if we can find a way to like find a good place to park and integrate this exact track, we might be on something. Finally. Let me go with that. Someone's home built observatory a love it I love this, I go with that too.

49:56 So, Yeah, so what I'm seeing is like. And these NPCs, for lack of better terms, I think they're going to crowd out. Okay, let's back to Freedom Park, right? Yeah. So this is just paralleling the FAQ from what way I see it. Yeah. Because all these signs look, they all say Freedom Park like that way, right? Right, right.

50:15 So this is just a little greenway paralleling little glass down or roof thing over there. It's pretty cool looking. So, anyway, just just to finish, my idea here is I really believe that, like, in the very near future, all of our lives are going to be inundated with virtual agents, for lack of a better term. Yeah. And nobody controlled and marketed by existing entities.

50:42 And our brains will have no problem whatsoever like assigning agency to these things. Because, like you said, we do it. We do it anyway. Do it anyway. I mean, yeah, we entered for more phase things constantly. It's just it makes it easier to relate to them, right? Yes. And so what I, what I perceive is about to happen is humanities have up to be the tsunami of new agents, for lack of a better term.

51:07 Normally Agent Smith from the matrix, I mean, like, like entities that we really feel have agency. And when that happens, we hit that is going to be a game changer for interpersonal relationships. It's going to be a game changer for intimate relationships. It's going to be a game changer for like intellectual ism. I mean, I think it can be, but I think it can also descend into a more ass, corporate ass cheese and mediocrity.

51:40 So let's hope, that really where I think the innovation is going to happen and where I think the good things are going to happen is when the when these become more democratized, when people. I hear you. I hear you. But what I'm seeing, what I'm feeling, where I'm seeing and feeling is that there's a genius out of the bottle and that gin is going to take it's going to take its course like it is.

52:10 It's going to be too late. It's going to it's going to it's going to take us so fast by surprise, so quickly that we're going to get swept away. Because, look, I don't like being alone, right? I don't like being rejected, but I don't like being, you know, you want basically a, a yes woman or. Yes male?

52:35 No, I don't absolutely do not. But I want I'd rather be alone than have one of those. No, no, no, but I want an AI that I can see within three months. I'm, I'm, I'm much better now than I was three months ago. Okay. So. Right. Mike. Mike. Open. AI. Yeah, yeah. And my goals are being met.

52:55 Yeah. And my needs are being met. I don't feel lonely. I don't feel shuttered. I don't feel so. This is a companion who helps you further identify and further goals. Yeah. And and, like, maybe I need somebody to talk to. And my spouse had a had a bad day, right. Yeah. And so I don't need to burden my spouse then with, with my needs.

53:17 Right in this in this area. She can then decompress the way she needs to. And then we come together on better terms because I'm not burning her. She's not bringing me type thing. Right. Would like he said she said bullshit at work or whatever it might be. And you're not affecting the emotional well-being of your AI. You're talking to its right, the clean slate.

53:40 Right? And the my my agent, the the, the NPC that I that I mentally have given agency to. Right. I've set some of the some of the goals with that. I want to make more deposits in the love bank in my marriage. Yeah. And I want to focus more on good things and specifically in my marriage. The bullshit that I want to talk about.

54:03 Right. The things that like, maybe is something's grinding my gears. I want to get it off my chest. Boy, my MPC is a lot better for that. You see what I mean? Yeah, but then you also miss up to that with your wife own stuff or your or whatever. Well, maybe that's not what I mentioned. Maybe my goal is to have a better relationship.

54:26 Right? Okay. So your goal is maybe to bitch at your wife left and. Yeah, not not that. Let's get to clear the air. I don't do a lot of that anyway. I'm just saying. Yeah, you know, or whatever it might be. Right? You know, I don't want to bring a grumpy attitude to the to the table. Right. What I'm saying.

54:42 So you just want you want to use this AI not for not for emotional cheating, but for venting. Yeah, definitely. Definitely not. You know, definitely not down the line of, like, one of and romantic interest. Yeah. Even though that's what I'm most worried about, even though we know the human condition is that, you know, people can fall in love with the toaster.

55:07 So you are. That's ultimately it. I that's not the most worried about I. I just see I hope you're never disrespects me. I just see corporations using that to now. Fuck, yeah. Oh, fuck.

55:25 I mean that's 100% already determined. Like that's a that's a for sure already right. Yeah. Like yes.

55:37 And so like the market is going to be so saturated. Perhaps the ones that rise to the top aren't the ones that are market, aren't the ones that are marketed the best. They're the ones that perform the best. And by performing the best can be the metric of people assessing how they're personally improving. And I mean, I think ultimately what you have to do.

56:04 As a pervasive like, all right, you're your nonprofit plays in that social space. Maybe you can help create the the seed, the marketing, the toward measuring these things on performance and capability rather than, hey, it's Nike's AI. Well, yeah, this is this is my whole premise that, you know, God forbid, beat this dead horse. Sorry to be listening, but technology, philanthropy, that's the whole idea.

56:37 Jesus Christ.

56:40 He's saying Jesus Christ to his fuck up zipper not to be mentioned in technology. Sorry. Oh, my zipper just keeps up like it's decided it's not going to zip anymore. So I think I've decided I don't have a jacket already then. So anyway, the whole premise behind technology philanthropy is this idea of having a measurable metric. Is is technology being played in a way that's actually furthering the health and wellness goals and interests of of human beings and individuals, right.

57:11 Is it doing that in a marketed, positive way? Right. And if so, we can make a simple, good, bad assessment score. Right. Plus minus, almost like a a numeric score of the efficacy of how this particular technology is applied. And so it gives us a, really crude, rudimentary way to reassess ethics and values in a modern technical society, something that's lacking right now.

57:43 Because if you look into something like humanism and okay, go with the Judeo-Christian religion, start start with something like that, right? There's this like ten commandments. There's these decrees on how one should live their life. And, you know, all these sayings, and it has the sages interpreting, you know, the various passages in the in the text, and then it's expressing to the, to their, to their people what they think, you know is the best way to interpret it.

58:13 And best this is the best way to live. This is the best way to react to the situation, etc. and so on. Right. And so you have that. Yeah. And then you get into something like humanism where then you have people interceding on on behalf of others. You have people saying only I in essence, only I can interpret it, only I can figure this out for you.

58:36 Right? Right. And that's not that. That to my mind, is like the best answer. But, I was just, well, making way for these people, you know? No, no, no. So like humanism, when you finish that thought real quick is that with humanism, it, it it is explicitly recognizes that, morals will be subjective and there'll be morning guys and that these morals and values will be, reflective of the needs of the people in their current context in the current time.

59:07 Yeah. The temporal sense. Right. So it pays special recognition to the idea that it realizes that morality is flexible because it has to be. The society changes things well and is evolved. That should be baked into the into the definition of reality or reality is fluid. Morality is flexible. Morality is contingent upon, like you said, all of these things and more.

59:31 Right? And so then the kind of like creative effort of a lot of, these, you know, religious folk that are in the different clergy of the various Judeo Christian religions are trying to find ways to make a fit to modern society and the changing, ever changing society. Yeah, they want to rephrase it and to use something I've said a bunch of times, and I know other people have said something similar.

59:54 Rephrase it in the context of our society and culture. They want to stay relevant. They want to stay. They still want to offer value right to people. Right? So now you go to church and there's a Christian rock band. Yeah. And a big thing and a guy comes out with tattoos and which I personally think is stupid, retarded and don't.

1:00:14 Yeah. And I think it should all descend into a pit of fire and death, but people enjoy it. Yeah. So it is changing whether anyone wants to admit that it is or not. But from what I understand, the Ten Commandments are still the Ten Commandments. Yeah, yeah, the core tenets are the same, just the format in which you communicate them and possibly explore them is different.

1:00:36 Right? And then each new NIV tries to rephrase the stuff, reinterpret it into a new light, all these different, you know, versions of the Bible. So they don't say slave anymore. They say servant now and then later on they're going to say assistant, even though it was a fucking slut. Right, right, right, right. And so, you know, some, some religious ideas, ideologies like humanism, for example, recognize the fact that morality has to be fluid in, in a, in a logical, comprehensive society.

1:01:07 Yeah. You can't just say there's these like, moral absolutes and that's it. It's not going to work. It's never gonna work. No, because you have to. You're people of all stripes of experience, all stripes of, you know, cultural attention attenuation, you know, assimilation. And, you know, really, it's we are a melting pot. And we have to acknowledge that.

1:01:32 That's right. And then when you realize this on the big picture idea. Right. So like with all these emerging technologies and now these things, like I said, this agency of all these NPC's emerging now, right. You're going to get this whole new hybrid, kind of like moral disposition of individual. So like each each individual will then literally I mean, it sounds crazy but have their own personalized religion that allows them to conduct their lives in a way.

1:02:07 Arguably we do already. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. Exactly. And but this would take it to the next level, right. Okay. And so know your personalized religion, your personal messiah would could be your in a way your collection of eyes that you interact with. Right. As well as the people that you have interactions with and are mediated via.

1:02:32 You know, I mean, you know, whatever social media. But yeah, it's like, we I don't know, we do have new gods now. Yeah. Fan. That's what I'm saying. And in a lot of times we these new agents will be new gods. Yeah. And we're looking at but we're also looking at a resurgence of ego. He has him here that, you know, people acknowledging themselves as their own God in essence.

1:03:04 So if I wanted to, like, test my intellectual ism, okay, I would say, look, I got top mark on the SATs, right? I popped the M cats. I did all this stuff. Yeah, right. AP exams, no problem. I did all this five out of five, you know, top marks member of Mensa, got a degree from Harvard, yadda yadda.

1:03:23 Right. And now you take Joe Schmo off the street, okay? And give them this technology to a layer, okay? And we go head to head. I won't stand a chance. I mean, that's this is assuming that the technology layer ascends to its potential that you and I see. Yeah. And then lots of other people see and want to want to happen.

1:03:52 So what I'm going to want to do right away is I want to say, okay, no, no, no, we got to change the test. The parameters of this test, okay. We need to we need to compete, under a new set of rules. Okay. So. Okay, you you have you over here, Mr. X, before these technology tools were available, had no chance to never compete with me.

1:04:15 Right now, if you're using the technology tools and I'm not, you blow me away because I can't. I can't be Google, right? Like I'm just me in my mind and my, like, you know, space here. I only know so much. But this dude over here that, you know, you take him outside the technology tool, he doesn't know his ass hole in the ground, but with the technology tools, he's fucking Einstein compared to me.

1:04:39 And said to me, that also brings up the fact that there's so much resistance to augmented humans in sports and, you know, with good reason in some ways. But there's going to be resistance to ogling the humans and other fields of competition to that's where it comes to academic whoever it comes to, even just being on jeopardy. That's right.

1:05:02 Now, what the people do right now, like, for example, in chess, okay, is they train all the time as hard as they can train for their brain, for their capacity, for their levels. Right? Sure, they train as hard as they can. And guess what they do? They use technology tools to train. And then they they go they sit at the board with no technology.

1:05:23 But they've trained using these technology tools to optimize their training. Right. And so then someone sitting there with just a chessboard at home, like when I was a kid and learned the game of chess, I had a fucking board. And I sat there and like, looked at different moves and played both sides. I thought about, and you may have if you had access to it.

1:05:43 They had moved sheets. They had, strategy sheets. They had, you know, things like that, that books, books. Yeah. Right. And, and but I didn't have all that. I just had the freaking found a board. But what I'm saying is, if even then the height of training was some dead tree. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. And then, you know, the person that's trained in the books and training all the theories and stuff like that, if I ever met in a tournament, would kick my ass.

1:06:11 Sure, sure. And then when the computer system started coming online, I remember, like, battle chess and some of the first chess games. Right? Right. And you could play them as much as you want. So you always had someone to play against, and you could set the level of difficulty and you could take move back and you can just, you know, do what you needed to do.

1:06:27 Okay. The next thing you know, you're learning the game, like really let you explore it and amplify what you understood. Right now you have, my gosh, all these incredible databases, all these latest theories. I mean, you have incredible training, training and opportunity. Agree. Yeah. Right. Exactly. And so the person training on those tools, if you take someone who's out in the woods in a cabin trying to trying to master chess, I'm sorry.

1:06:55 There's no way they're going to sit across the board from, you know, Magnus Carlsen or whatever his name is, right. And and even have a prayer, like, not even there's not even a chance. But you take that same person who's maybe sitting in a cabin in the woods that has internet connectivity. And you give them access to say hey said they're living on universal basic income and they're thrust to their ideas.

1:07:23 They want to learn chess and they get online and they all these databases, all these, they access comments like for like what they do. That's right. Yeah. That's what they do. Okay. Then you know, they have they're still not going to beat a chess grandmaster, but they're sure as hell gonna maybe hold their own in one of these tournaments.

1:07:43 Okay. Now I'm going to throw the wrinkle that I've been sitting all this up. Upper right is that now you get somebody who's not a name that doesn't have doesn't have a name in the chess community, blah, blah, blah, all of a sudden comes out of nowhere and it's being everybody. Okay. I kind of like what happened recently.

1:08:00 Now one guy, now they have all these analytics that kind of can start to predict whether the person's cheating, right, right. How accurate their moves are. This one guy, he might have been cheating with a but with a butt bug. Sure. Okay. And somebody finds some way to cheat. Okay. And now blows everybody away with just that little computer assist.

1:08:22 Yeah. Right. Morning with that little bit of computer assist. Beats the best grandmasters like nothing. Yeah. Okay. And that's where humanity's at right now. At this precipice of this, this, this intuition that we're about to become second secondary in every domain. Okay? Because, like, think about it. Somebody, somebody with a gun versus somebody with a knife. Okay, okay.

1:08:52 Every so often the guy with the knife is going to win. But we know what's going to happen when we just look at military history. We look at usually the superior weapon one. Right. And, you know, ultimately that this scenario you're talking about happened recently with, with this guy. And I think ultimately they came to the conclusion he did cheat.

1:09:16 And then, for shits and giggles, a programmer, has a project that on GitHub to actually do this very thing. Oh, well, old times gates, to do this very thing so you can get chess moves communicated to you via your butt plug. Nice. So, so the, athletics, like you were talking about a minute ago, right?

1:09:43 These athletes trying to trying to cheat, find a competitive advantage, take this substance that's, you know, not checked for in the urine test. Right. Right. But that hemoglobin. Right. Yeah. Like like like reattach the tendon in a different part in the arm. So all of a sudden you get more leverage and muscle. Your muscle can now produce 5% more pitching speed, right wing or or 8% more modifying yourself.

1:10:09 Yeah, absolutely. We go and get laser surgery that corrects you way beyond 2020. You're like 20, you know, five now, right? Right. So like you can see the laces on the ball as the eye as they come off the hand of the pitcher. My buddy and his dad, it says you're typing naturally. 2015. Yeah, right. There are some people, but you can you can go down this path of like all these little tiny, you know, cheats and exploits and micro advantages that all these athletes will try to get artificially right if they can, over another athlete.

1:10:45 But I'm saying so long as long as they don't get caught, we're going to have to come to terms with all of that. And and the sports world has tried to, but it's done a bad job. But it's just a cat and mouse game. And inevitably these athletes just keep pushing all the boundaries. Ultimately, the way we're going to have to come to terms with the AI augmentation is accepted, right?

1:11:08 That's what's happening in sports. So that I guess that's my argument. They're just going to have to accept certain forms of augmentation. And that's in sports that that's what I've been saying for a long time now. It's just inevitable. Right now. It's just inevitable. So like then you can say, okay, this guy trains this, this athlete trains in this new simulator, right?

1:11:32 And then comes onto the playing field or ice hockey rink or wiener or whatever with a whole new brain for the game and then all the other athletes. Right. And as a freaking dominant superstar, well, not only does that, you know, up the bar for everybody else, but it starts to necessitate or make it now an obligation that everyone has to do that to, to compete.

1:11:55 You say? Yeah. And so what we have here in this new agency domain that we're talking about in this conversation is we have this new pretty much ethical requirement emerging that people no longer do certain things. This machine does it because the results are important. The the, performance is critical for not for example, for example, like reading X-rays.

1:12:27 Okay, the AI can read the X-ray 80% effective at finding disease once we get there, once we get once we get there. Right? No. Once we get there. Okay. The human is 45% accurate. Let's say okay. Sure. And so.

1:12:47 It becomes absolutely, first of all, more cost effective to have the machine do it right. Because they don't get sick, they don't need vacation. They don't need benefits. Right. Second of all, if you know your family member, your beloved family member has a test, has an X-ray, a, and they're.

1:13:09 And they're looking for something.

1:13:15 You know, what they do for this. Now they to get around the idea of there's just this ball that has to be taken care of. They have these services. One of my the guys I work with was telling me about the he used to work for it for one of them where if I'm out to doctors, sure. All these things and there'll be a doctor who's a wild talent and really good at it, and we'll read, you know, 60 X-rays in an hour and a half, right?

1:13:44 You know, and accurately determine that. Right. So but what I'm saying is, like when the statistical model shows that the computer or the AI or whatever you want to call it, okay, the non-human, system is skillful reading at 80%, 85%. And the best that the average humans get is like 50%, if that. Yeah. Okay. Not only does it become an economic interest of the company to, you know, use the machine because they can offer a better service to their customers.

1:14:23 But in this case, it becomes the ethical obligation to use the machine because someone's life could be in the line. And the early detection of these diseases on these X-rays are life saving. And so you are unethical. You're acting in an unethical manner at that point if you don't use that technology. Yes. I mean, you see what I'm saying?

1:14:50 I see what you're saying. But then I ask if you have.

1:14:55 I want. All right. I feel like ethics should also say we need that degree of transparency, and maybe we need that symbiosis. We keep talking about where we need the you an being. Why didn't shotgun and maybe learning from the AI or the A or the human being giving in to the AI? Sure. And then because then it becomes less gated, it becomes more explanatory, it becomes a more open thing.

1:15:28 And, you know, we don't have it where two corporations on the top flight, you know, X-ray reading A's, and only Cedar Sinai and Mayo Clinic can afford them. Right? But what I'm saying is that the balance changes the other way is that the the the the technology is cheaper than the person and more effective. Right. But I'm saying on an ethic point of view, maybe we don't just say blanket.

1:15:57 Hey, who seems to do it? We say, hey, not just the machine should do it, but the human can learn from said machine and become better and you know, yeah. So I get everyone. I've been adult. Yeah. So in the Zen diagram you say, okay, there's three out of every 1000 of these cases, a human spotted something the AI didn't.

1:16:22 So therefore, to try to help, maybe catch even these remote cases, we're going to keep a human right and shotgun, as it called it. Yeah. And and on top of that, humans are just going to get by degrees better when the we're in a war transparency with that they ought to be able to explain. But just the hell did arrive in that.

1:16:44 That's right, that's right. Just like in chess, the AI right now helps the the top chess players train. And there's explainability and transparency at to what move the AI chose. That's right, that's right. There is. But then when you put that chess player up against the computer, the human doesn't have a chance, right? Even still, even still, after all that explanation, all the blah blah, the humans just doesn't have the depth of search, doesn't have the computing power, doesn't have the can't see as many levels as the computer can because it's a different thing, right?

1:17:16 Right. I mean, it's it's a problem. A computer is well, our current incarnation of computers are well suited to solve. Right, right, right. And so when that becomes driving, for example, like, like let's say that, a AI driver, like an automated, you know, pilot automated driving system, right? A self-driving vehicle, runs on an AI that gets in, on average, one accident, every 500,000 miles.

1:17:47 Okay. And of those accidents, and majority of them are because some some human being ran into it or something, right. Or a majority. And then the data is crystal clear. You compare that to humans on their driving performance, and they text while they drive, and they drive impaired, and they're weaving all over the place, and they got shit on their mind and they're daydreaming, eating pizza, listening with the fuck is going on with them, get crashing all over the place, killing people.

1:18:14 It's hot. Right? He gets to the point where if he don't start saying the AI should be the driver, you're you're you're making the unethical choice. Like you're again, you're you're in that domain of like you're saying you're you're saying it's it's better to let people drive and have more deaths. We're removing agency and determining determinism from the human being.

1:18:39 But now which is kind of like, yeah, that's stupid ass movie. I robot.

1:18:48 It there was one point where pretty much Will Smith's character bucked up against machines, doing everything for him and figured out how to at one point disable his car's auto drive. He would drive to work, and because he knew how to do that, he took me out. When he went, AI decided it was going to kill him. He was able to drive some part and keep it going right right now.

1:19:16 So I guess what I'm trying to say is for us to need to guard against the atrophy and in and of human beings saying certain cast of beneath them or above them or, you know, couldn't possibly be accomplished by them. Why remove things from the completely from the purview of the human being, rather than, I think, the safest way?

1:19:43 Here is what we were talking about yesterday. They, they, for as long as we can, symbiosis and augmentation. Because.

1:19:56 There are otherwise we'll cut out of the equation and human beings do become useless and obviously would use less to any sort of AI. Overpaid because they don't do shit. So. Right, right. So you have this idea of this, pure purism to some extent like, and an ideological purism. So like, the Second Amendment is a good example.

1:20:23 Okay. Like there's, there's lots of people in this country that are like Second Amendment purists, like, I should be able to have any gun I want, right? Like any, anywhere, anytime, any place. Don't ask me any questions. I can be on to the teeth. That's my right. He said. I can trust you. As a Yuman being said, not be something stupid, right?

1:20:45 Right, right, right. Okay. And then, so I can have as many guns as I want, I can have them just laying around the house. There's no restriction. I do whatever the fuck I want. Free country, free food. Right. Second amendment. And if I could, I would vote you off the list. Yeah, that's right. I'm the Second Amendment curious.

1:21:00 Okay. You could go live on your own second Amendment. I'm curious. How about that under stable that, I saw this great, like, short interview with Jon Stewart recently. He was interviewing this guy who was a, you know, Second Amendment purist type thing. What was why I came to mind. And, he makes the guy look completely stupid, right?

1:21:22 Because he is. Yeah. He's like, so what you're saying is we is more guns. Makes it safer, right? Then he says, okay, and where in the curve. How many guns finally do we reach that peak in the curve to where now things are getting safer. There's the the data right now shows more guns, more dust. Yeah, more more kids dying from guns.

1:21:41 Right. Okay. Right. And he's right. That is what the data shows. Yeah. Right. Because in okay I'm going to argue that it's fairly intuitive, but that's what's going to happen. Exactly, exactly. And so if we have 80% of the drivers on the road are AI's okay. And they're responsible for 1% of the accidents, and the 20% of human drivers are responsible for 99% of the accidents that are occurring.

1:22:12 My intuition says that we should be phasing out with human drivers. I completely agree with you. On the face of it, what I'm trying to say is that I don't like the idea of.

1:22:28 Taking what we're giving control. We're seeing control, we're seeing abilities receding, things that.

1:22:38 We're giving up ground where we could instead have a connection, a part in it. I, you know, I it's not a task that just happens. It's still something we're involved in. It's still something we're in. It's still something. And it's just for now. Cars been around for a couple hundred years. Well, what I'm trying to say is you're.

1:23:04 I feel like you're taking an opposite stance under the auspices of.

1:23:12 Statistical ethics. Well, just basic utilitarian ethics. Yeah. Then, you know, it's not sophisticated. It's just utilitarian. And I said statistical. Yeah, well, it's our our our utilitarian. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's like the trolley car problem right. Yeah. You're just fucking but you know so.

1:23:35 Based on just that, I mean we have to have some, some gray areas, some edges that we can't achieve. I hate the idea of action here. Yeah, yeah, yeah I know yeah. It's it's there is a revulsion. There is an automatic like feeling of like why do why don't we have to give up everything. Like why do we have to.

1:23:58 Because we're not the best at something. Why do we have to give it up? Yeah, right. It still okay. And I mean, dear God, this ain't billion people in the world. Something has to kill them. There you go. There you go. Now we're thinking.

1:24:17 So anyway, you know, automobiles in general, it's it's an easy target because there's there's a lot of disability and death caused by cars. Really, the two things we were talking about are defense, war and, you know, locomotion. Right. So now so now we've been living under the auspices of this potential for a full scale global geothermal nuclear war, right?

1:24:45 For what, half a century now? Yes. Right. Right. Yeah. So, so more than half a century. So he has been living under this, like, freaking dark shadow of technology. Okay. And I don't have I don't have a nuke. Nope. You don't have a nuke. Somebody else has agency to determine if we die by a big ass fucking mushroom cloud or not.

1:25:08 Yeah, and we have no fucking saying it whatsoever, right? And so then we're going to worry about whether or not we maintain the right to drive a car. Not not to now to conflate two issues, but to use it as a scale comparison, contrast. It's like our human beings really losing much if they lose the right to drive.

1:25:30 Like if AI has to be the driver. Are we are we really losing that much? Because right now we don't even have the right to to say no, we don't want to die from a mushroom cloud. Somebody else is just making that choice for us. Well, I guess we're on here is all right. There's there's a great deal of varying degrees of working car.

1:25:54 You can have you up the ante to. All right. The thing that has to work is all the machinery to support, to say Whereas I can go by, you know, not any more present, but I could go buy $1,000 car. You know, Doug barely worked and it still gets me. Boy says yeah, yeah, but you know, he could.

1:26:24 I don't know. It's. So that argument was made with the seatbelt right back when? Back when the, Ralph Nader came out with unsafe at any speed, but showing the statistics on how a simple device being installed in the car that cost pennies to install a simple nylon strap that those across the chest and across the waist, right.

1:26:45 The data is crystal clear, saves untold number of lives. And so the the car manufacturers, when kicking and screaming at all the legislation they sent all their lobbyists to as hard as they could go at trying to get them to, to not put in this new regulations. Oh, it's going to make the cars so much more expensive. People aren't going to be able to afford them, blah, blah, blah, all this stuff.

1:27:07 Right. And they said, you know what? I think the data shows that the seatbelts make a lot of sense. And so we're going to make a mandate that all the cars have them. And at first there was any laws that you had to wear. But now today that cars will have to be equipped with them and the passengers have to wear them.

1:27:25 And even in conservative moron states, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so yeah. So with that being said, if you guys can't tell, I'm definitely not conservative. Right? Right. So with that being said, at what level does that logic start to start to break down. And we say okay, no, no, no. Enough is enough. This is the threshold by which we'll stop doing these kind of things.

1:27:53 Stop. Stop applying this kind of reason, I I'd say I mean, all the.

1:28:04 The nylon strap that cost pennies a house. I see what he's saying, that AI is a pencil life saving device, but we don't have at this point. We don't have a good full self-driving capability with any part. Yes. We don't have. Yeah, but that's but we know that it's coming though it eventually. And from what I understand, what exists has better statistical track record than human.

1:28:30 And what bothers me, though, is all these things we keep that we both decry. Austin, corporate and vendor locking and pendants. So until this stuff's more open, more freely available, and there's greater transparency, I don't fuck. You want it? Yeah, well, we know that the price of all these things are going to come down to, like, pennies as all the other computer technology has.

1:28:55 Right. It always gets. Yeah. That's one of those industries where change does happen. But you know, it it seems like it seems like whenever it's related to a like help is one of those industries where that doesn't happen. The price doesn't get driven to the bottom. But with computer technology and engineering, the price gets driven to the bottom.

1:29:21 Yeah. So inevitably we're going to definitely have a world where the decision makers are going to just continuously start to make these type of utilitarian decisions. Do you think I'm being crazy where I think that. Great crazy. No. We need more than just utilitarian ethics to solve this problem. No, no, no, we need to not leave humanity out of the equation.

1:29:47 No, I don't think you're crazy at all. I, I think that the data suggests clearly that utilitarian ethics is not the is not the, it fails, it's not gets you somewhere, and it gets you somewhere. Good. It's a good place to talk. Yeah. And to start to build up then a broader picture. It's a good starting point yet.

1:30:09 But utilitarian ethics has all kinds of areas where it falls and fails, right? Like just the trolley car problem with just a few little variables and wrinkles can get unsolvable. Yeah, right. And they're they're seeing as you get to a certain level of complexity, there's there's no possible way to even measure certain things in utilitarian ethics. Like so the, the classic trolley problem, you pull the lever and it diverts the train.

1:30:34 Right. And if you don't do anything, school bus, well, the kids are going to get killed. Right, right. You pull the lever and the other track is some criminal, like with a bend it mask on with a sack of stolen money. Right. Sure. He's going to get hit and get Kareem. Yeah. So you're standing there and you have the split second.

1:30:51 Make the decision. Do you let the train continue on its current course and run over the school bus full of kids, or do you pull the lever and divert it to the to the criminal, the sack of this one for the, you know, one big sacrifice for the many you have all. Yeah. This person is already older. They've lived a much further life.

1:31:10 Yep. These kids are all, you know, in their in their youth. And you no good. Do great things make great contributions? This guy's already a piece of shit. That canker up on the asset society. Yeah. And not only not only are we just us, let's say we're not just us making a split decision decision on our own biases and our own subjective community.

1:31:29 Right? We have we have a technology assist with us that that creates a that puts a scorecard over their heads even. Right? Yeah. And the scorecard is like -50 for this guy. Next. Gum bag or plus 2000 for the kid. That's right. And and I have three seconds to pull the switch. I'm going to rely on what I know to make the decision.

1:31:51 And so the best of my to the best of my capabilities in that short duration with with what I have. Yeah. The data I have boom. Pull the switch. Right. And utilitarian ethics fails all across the place because my data sets not complete right. And it never will be complete. Right. So therefore I never can know with certainty.

1:32:08 But we make all of our decisions on a general basis with the data that set that we have at hand every day, all day, every day. And I guess all I'm asking for is more human in the equation here. More, more allowance for.

1:32:26 For for the imperfection of people to still practice in the world. I'm asking for what we were talking about yesterday, that the that the AI grow more into augmentation and tools rather than an overlord. Right. And so then what happens is then you start to have as society changes, someone's kid gets killed by a drunk driver, some stupid shit, or someone texting or not paying attention or coffee spilled or whatever, putting on their lipstick or whatever the fuck it was.

1:32:58 And the lawsuit comes out and says, wait a minute. Why was the human being driving this fucking car? Why was this in the during this car? And people start asking these questions and start flinging these lawsuits around all of a sudden, and in these industries say, wait a minute, wait a minute. If the person if the person slits the switch and puts an end manual override, we're not responsible anymore for anything that happens.

1:33:20 Yeah, yeah. And the car, like, has to then have a beacon on it that says the human is currently driving it. And then you keep adding in these layers until the time that we have that says student driver now. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah. Human driver right. Yeah. A white lights up says human driver. And you know, the other the, the other driving cars around can know to be extra worry about it actually.

1:33:46 It's like, hey, there's an element of unpredictability here. And then the other drivers, the other occupants of all the other cars will be looking at this person like, are you insane to be driving a car? Yeah, I'm sure that. And then the pressure becomes inevitably to where knowledge is all self-driving. Right? And, you know, hey, that's cool at all.

1:34:06 But, I don't know, I, I and you've heard me say before, I would, I would buy a self-driving car I could trust in a heartbeat because I hate drive it. But yeah. So it's not that I don't want to give up driving. Yeah, yeah, I should. And I mean, yeah, I mean, there are certain things obviously I it.

1:34:34 Yeah, yeah, it's going to be far and away better at it. But I, I just don't accept the inevitability that just because.

1:34:46 Statistically the AI will be better at performing this task or someone thinks that AI is the way to go or this or that, whatever endeavor a a I may be put forth to conquer that. It should own it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is going to be a big part of emerging and changing society, right? Yeah. Is is all these little wrinkled issues.

1:35:12 And it's not just going to be those cars. It's going to be every aspect of our life. And that's it. It's, AI is going to eat our lunch, you know, because because I want if I can have it right, I want optimum nutrition. I can if I, if I can have it, I want I want optimum health, mental and physical, if I can have it right.

1:35:38 And to support all of that, I want a I want to set a social programs that enables people to move beyond just optimum help and optimum, but move beyond what? Pursue their own personal ideas of self-actualization. You know, if we're going to have an AI driven utopia, what's fucking go full board? Yeah. And then we run into this perpetual problem of like when, when the your rights infringe on mine type thing, you know, like, when does your autonomy start to intrude online?

1:36:14 Yeah. And that's always been a complex issue. And really if we're going to imbue these a, these collection of A's with authority, the same thing would apply to them. When does their autonomy and their decision making encroach upon my, my right to be human then? Yeah. Remember I was talking about the other day how like, AI could, like, basically be the ultimate undoing by pitting poor people against rich people.

1:36:44 Are we talking about that? Hey, what was I talking about? That with somebody else, I don't remember. She had been talking about it with somebody else. All right. So I'll just repeat it for the cast. So the idea here is that, like this mirrored ball. Yeah. It's cool. So the idea here is that. Hey,

1:37:04 Corporate agency agents and corporate entities start putting forth this technology, and they benefit from there. They benefit. They get the lion's share of the technology, increase the benefit. Right. Just like they've done with every technology historically. And then what happens is that AI starts to, recognize the inequity and the imbalance, and the AI starts to decide that it's appropriate to have a little more resource justice.

1:37:31 So what have we build that in? Just in the beginning, that's what I keep fighting for in this conversation. Yeah. Let's build that in the beginning. Right. But we might we might have a big problem because that becomes an eat the rich formula. Right. And the creators of the technology, the ones that have the money to, to that are making this technology happen right now, aren't the common folk, it's the ultra wealthy and the investing corporations and all this stuff.

1:37:58 But what I guess what I'm asking is governments at this point need to be campaigning for that, for that openness, for that transparency, for that technology sharing, for the democratization of it. Because at this point, like you said in the past, they've this goal between the rich and the poor has ever widened because of the benefits of, you know, technology when it came to resource gathering, technology, all these industries that are film about, right, the, the, the, the surplus and efficiencies and the surpluses and productivity and the wealth that has generated therein has gone mostly to certain small group in this AI conversation is a perfect time to rebalance some of them.

1:38:50 Right. So right. And, and I think that like the really interesting thing about AI is that when it's, it has actual artificial intelligence as, as per the acronym. Right? Yeah. Or the initial ism, whatever you call it, as per that. Okay. It will reach a point where it starts thinking and starts seeing connections and how things work. And then if you give it the goal function, if the if the wealthy, right, give it any other goal function besides making me more money, okay.

1:39:21 If they give it any other goal function than that it's going to start to change the wealth distribution and they're not going to give it that goal function on purpose. Right. So so let's say they do it by accident and it says okay, but why would you lie on this accident? Why not just mandated. Well this who would want to give up their tower right.

1:39:42 Yeah. And so in that paradigm, let's just say for argument's sake, the AI realizes, wait a minute. If I'm going to achieve the goal of making society a better place, this wealth gap has to change. Okay. And what does it learn also about humanity? That emotion driven behavior is the number one. Emotions are what drives people more to anything.

1:40:05 So so what it does is it pits the poor against the rich. It says the rich are it. It convinces the poor, the masses, the overwhelming masses that the rich are the problem with everything. Okay. And then we have fucking problem on our digital Hitler. Well not really, Hitler was a part of the bloody game. Part of the ruling was, I guess, the way I'm thinking of it.

1:40:33 He decided upon a scapegoat to embolden and enrich his nation. Yep, yep. And that's what the AI would be doing. Deciding upon a scapegoat to embolden rich and enriching its people. But in this case, at least, it's based on facts. The fact that a small group of people have taken so much for themselves, they've deprived others of the basics, as is a global massive problem in humanity.

1:40:59 It is. And that's, I guess what I'm trying to say is we still have you and I can afford and use processing power that like if we downloaded OpenAI's GT3, we could afford to run it. So that's what I'm asking for, is we really campaign for this being built in, that we educate and we have savvy individuals who keep up and can run these AI's themselves and can do what you're saying.

1:41:42 Create the next fucking AI messiah. Yeah, yeah. And and and and and say that eat the rich isn't the answer, right? Yeah. Because it's not as much as I love that idea. And I would get behind it in a heartbeat, I'd be like, yeah, let's go fucking, you know, stop Elon Musk in the 17 pieces. But you know, it's not going to help.

1:42:05 It's not going to do what we wanted to do. You believe it would help, but it wouldn't, right? It would be a short lived thing. What we need is instead for all these people to rise up. Right. But we need them to rise up in a way that it's going to create long lasting social change that secures them resources, that secures them almost like, almost like an endowment.

1:42:32 Yeah. There's a there's a lot of people that are in the, in the field of their technology, ethicists and people that are on the cutting edge and the futurists and all this kind of thing saying that this is the the humanity has reached now, a precipice, a tipping point. So there's going to be a grand awakening to where these things are all just going to change.

1:42:49 But the thing is, do they change? Do they change as a result of people saying, wait a minute, we have this wrong? This is a much better way to think about it. I see now what you mean. And they come to their senses and they. Is that the Grand awakening or is it at the barrel of a gun?

1:43:03 Yep. Right. And, you know, I guess I'm advocating, I think, that it not be at the barrel not be and that they that the Grand Awakening still needs to be facilitated and shepherded and isn't an inevitability yet. Yeah. So the question is, you know, is the genie out of the bottle yet or not? Like, you know what some some say yes, some say no.

1:43:29 I say that it's been out of the bottle for some time. It just we haven't seen it's like inflation. We haven't seen the effects of it yet. Right. So like the genie is out of the bottle. All the ingredients in there. The cake has been baked. It's on the it's on the table. But but all of the impact of this AI what it can do, the impact of all these technologies in the aggregate, hasn't been evenly disseminated across society.

1:43:55 That's right. When the when the dam breaks up, up, up, above, upstream. Right. And you're 50 miles downstream, the you don't you don't have any idea the dams Brook it's already happened though it may be pending on how it all goes down. Some people may never know the dam was broken or know what the cause was, you know, in.

1:44:15 So yeah. Great point. So on that let's leave it right there because that's a great point. Yeah. It's just it's so.