Abortion Rights & Shifting American Culture

0:01 There's actually there's actually a little bit of a like a group dynamic thing where like you feel like you're cheating to some extent. Yeah, I'd guess it's somebody that would bring something negative, like, you know, I don't that's I don't know. Is that cheating? Hey, I think it's rounding out the intellectual landscape that we were traversing, where we're expanding things.

0:19 Where? Well, I really like the subjects you guys tackle. Like, it's, it's it's everything. Everything it is. And it's it's completely different perspectives. It's not like one side or the other. It's like you guys have these not even devil's advocate perspectives, but these middle ground perspectives on most things. Yeah. But then on the things you feel strongly about, you're like, no, you should definitely like like we would come to blows.

0:47 It definitely is. You guys, coined the positive side of the positively pedestrian. You stay very positive even when you're talking about not very positive stuff. It's very good. So yeah, we've come to terms of, through this podcast that we're kind of in a bubble to some extent, you know what I'm saying? Like white privilege or some kind of, you know, it, privilege or something like that, because we both came from, like, pretty, you know, meager, humble roots.

1:10 Yeah. For the most part, we really get into that, you see that, you know, the stories we tell and experiences we have, you can see that, like when we were children, we, you know. Yeah, we had humble beginnings, very humble. You know. Right. You know, and, just a small boy from Kentucky against backwoods. And, we've had some really serious life experiences.

1:29 I mean, you know, John said like this crazy family event or his mother was murdered. Yeah. What percentage of people are in that kind of category? Exactly. That's a whole podcast. You know, it was a year plus in active combat when I was in the military. Oh, wow. You know, Iraq and Afghanistan, frontlines of the 82nd Airborne Division.

1:47 Okay, so that's interesting. Wow. You were a medic. That had to be intense. Yeah. I mean, so important is through divorce and stuff like that point. Sean is, like, married with other people's children, practically no children. So we both have parenting, you know, and so we have a lot of common overlap. We're both, like said, like, you know, I'm more middle aged.

2:08 Sean's a little younger, but we're both kind of like somewhat right. They're settled into it. Careers that are that are good. It has a good, you know, feel to be in. Right. So it's not like we're loaded, but we have like you know, you're comfortable not hungry. Yeah. Right. You're comfortable in a society where comfort is few and far between.

2:23 Yeah. I haven't been to security in a long, long time. Right. Yeah. And and I mean, if we want to go do something stupid and, you know, go to a bar and get drunk all night, we can afford it, right? That's that's for the first time in my life. I noticed recently that, like, I can actually go to the grocery store and not be concerned with what I'm buying.

2:42 Like, I know ramen is not the only choice, right? I can just go in and be like, I need BCD and you know, I have to compare the brands you don't have to do. I can just buy what I need and like. It really shocked me one day when I was just like, I don't, I don't have to check my bank account to go to McDonald's, so I still probably don't.

2:59 First thing you do is roll up the lobster tank. And so, like the last. Right? Exactly, I still do. I still have a little I still have Aldi. You know, I keep it as cheap as. But I'm like, I'm not squandering your resources exactly. But managing them well but I it was it was a happy, happy day when I noticed that I was like, oh, that guy's on you, dude.

3:18 Now, I don't care. I'm only poor now I'm middle class for now. Exactly. You guys have land in a home and fire pit. Fire pit? That's the that's the home. That's that is my that is my measure of success, y'all. That's been brought up in the conversation twice. When you get fire pit. Right. So you for me when I was growing up mile milestone me when I was growing up it was always a go to friends houses.

3:42 And if they had a piano, I thought they were rich. Yes. You know, like a real piano, not a keyboard. Like a piano. Yeah, my grandparents had. And now I have a piano. I can tell you it does not mean that I mean it tunes it. It is not true. Okay, so. So they have a tuned piano. I mean, one that gets regularly serviced.

4:00 Oh, excuse my law and order. That's the hallmark piano in a fire pit. Yep, I I've arrived. My grandparents had an electronic organ. That was pretty fun. So you've been through just, just to add to what I was saying, you've been through that Covid experience. Like, you know, near death and I mean, come on. And Lindsay's been upwards and back and I know for a fact Sean like bad luck follows this man.

4:26 How many times were you robbed in Painesville. Oh like four. It's funny because at gunpoint. That's 9.8.. Yeah, dude. The 5.1. So let's remember specifically the one story where he had no money, like, we we were all poor back. Yeah, totally. And when rent was only 500 bucks a month. Right. And he literally just started, like, making it rain receipt at the guy, you know, like, I don't have any money, man.

4:53 What do you want? And the guy's, like, holding a knife. And he says, here, take it. The guy give him money, right? He's like, oh shit, dude, I feel bad. Here's half of what I got off the other guy. You never know, right? Right. One time I, there was this guy who used to hang out at all, right?

5:13 Remember? We had to walk behind the apartment complex by the fences through the woods to get to the, gas stations. Yeah, right. Well, so I'm walking through there, and it's always kind of sketchy by those woods. Well, some dude jumps out and, like, tries to rob me. I was I was high as hell. I just start talking to him about how I'm like, man, look, I don't have any cash, you know?

5:34 But, you know, we start talking and bantering and going back and forth. I'm making him laugh. Hey, your friends, he puts a gun away and we go get a beer. He buys me a beer. I swear to God. No way. What are the odds of that? But everyone, everyone else who rob me, rob me successfully and, including an Asian man with a pipe, you know, what have been the.

5:58 And then the guy buys you a beer and then, like, in the parking lot, he's about. He goes to fist pumping, and you plot a gun on him. Joe. Oh, give me the wallet, bitch. Yeah, yeah. Somebody called Netflix. Movie? Yep. It's a movie. That's it. Just the whole movie. Is the guy getting robbed. That's better than most.

6:15 Most Netflix. And then the end. It ends with the guy robbing him. It's got a tighter plot than every Netflix movie. Every night Shyamalan and code. All right. Okay. Familiar stranger things guys. Yeah. Something about some bald headed girl in the woods screaming that for no reason. Like we don't know why. No ambient screams, you know? Oh, well, here's the way.

6:42 They're always skinwalkers. So let's the. Yeah. You never investigate the screams of Lord no. So are you in the same category Lindsay, with your past with Mike. Oh yeah. Yeah. No. Oh hell you say that word. It's tumultuous. Tumultuous. My young life was filled with, living in the hood and Danbury, Connecticut, and moving from house to house because we rented and, you know, my parents, my dad was a truck driver from our.

7:07 No stay at home. Really? I'm from junior. That's very same on the front door. I saw family in New Milford. That's so, Danbury Fair Mall. Actually, I was, like, going to the Danbury Fair, where it was the mall, right? Watching the dirt track. Right. So my grandpa used. Shoot. My. My papi used to run the carousel there for like, ten, 15 years.

7:25 There you go. Yeah, that's that's a nice connection. That's good. That's weird though. New Milford is a Yankee. Did you live there when they did Mr. Deeds in New Milford? I'm not sure. They they filmed a movie that Adam Sandler movie. Mr.. Wow. I don't know. I don't remember when it was there and if I was there at the time, it was in 99, 2000 somewhere.

7:45 Yeah, I think I was already down. Oh. So, yeah, we got here about 2001. We we came here right after September 11th. They not on purpose, but okay. The military after September 11th. Okay. As in from 2002, 2006. Yeah. That that's crazy. But yeah. So yeah, we grew up in Danbury is a pretty pretty I don't know what it is like these days, but it was not the best area.

8:11 It's it's tired and kind of played out at this point is it. Yeah. I mean, there's there's been quite a bit in Exodus, you know, I imagine from the north down south a lot of people have moved. Right. Oh yeah. So brain drain money. Yeah. It looks it looks a little bit rundown there. Like things are not as in, you know, like you come to a city that's growing and everything seems like it's in a good state of repair because, you know, just kind of outgrows, you know, it's like everything's new in Charlotte.

8:35 Yeah. It's like you have these, like, rings, you know, of development. And then the gentrification follows. Right. And so then things, since they just skip Danbury, they were like, no, you know, well the opposite's happening there now has those rings of collapse right to where, you know, people leaving, scratching, contracting. Yeah. And then, you know, empty lots and no resources.

8:55 It's like northern tired feeling because it's it's harder to maintain everything up there because, well, and everything went so fast. The weather, the, the money. Yeah. Yeah. So I might have to make a trek back up north there. And if things keep going the way they're going, I mean really the South, it's not a good spot for a liberal atheist.

9:12 No, the North is like. I mean, at least there's a North Carolina haven, North Carolina. But I live in South Carolina now, so. But yeah, okay. The North is a haven of, you know, sensible ideology. Well, no, it's honestly a haven of people who at least keep their shitty opinions to themselves a lot. There we go. So, I mean, because there's plenty of racist people and assholes out there, but they don't feel it's safe.

9:37 That's good to be. It's not as think about it. It's not as like you can't just be as open about being an asshole, right? I was I was in New York on a on a bus and, New York City on a bus. And there's this guy, like, basically in pair of Speedos, you know, like, like no doubt smeared makeup.

9:57 Right. Screaming at somebody else and everyone's just riding the bus like nothing's going on. Know. And I was like, this is, this is where I need to be, right? Like I love this. Don't give a fuck you know mentality. Yeah. New Yorkers just don't care. They don't get especially they don't give a fuck. Now you go to upstate because I lived in upstate for years and that's a whole different.

10:16 Yeah. There, there there's So we lived I lived in Orange County. We lived in Putnam County. Not like Canadian upstate, but, probably about hour or two hours away from the city of stand. Cool. My grandpa lived in Binghamton. Okay. Okay. Cool. Oh, nice. Small world. Yeah. It's, like parallel and following each other. I always love.

10:34 I always love meeting somebody from my small neck of the woods. That's really cool. But, yeah, no guy I mean, we've we've all sound like we've had pretty much of the same, like, shit stick deal. Oh, yeah. Totally. Totally. Why don't I just getting robbed so many times? I mean, you know, you get after a certain number of robberies, it's like, maybe you're kind of maybe asking for help.

10:55 So maybe you thought you were. Where. Isn't that right? Exactly. Maybe that's what I was wearing. I'm dumb and look like I have some money. So isn't that what I used to say? You were an easy target. Yeah, I said I was an easy target. I said that I had this, like, invisible neon sign above me. I'm goofy.

11:10 White boy. Police robbed me right? If you had. And people used to go hard, it did, I did. I don't know how it is. This. It looks pretty. Pretty upscale now. It does, but it used to be pretty nasty. It was like the seedy underbelly. It's like where the all the valley served. The rich people lived right? So, like, I have a bit of a psycho side, so like, yeah, maybe that's like somewhat visible because I know I've been in situations before where I could have been robbed.

11:37 I've been in situations where I'm like, oh, I don't belong here, right? I completely understand that. Yeah, I know, yeah. And maybe, I don't know, maybe I just exude this like thing where I might have this edge of like, don't fuck with me. Yeah. This like, yeah, something weird about the guy. Like, maybe right from the ages of, like, 14 to 23, I put myself in so many situations where I should have been died.

11:58 I should have been. Yeah. Capital R worded I, you know, like I should have bad things should have happened to me. I found myself in I mean, the groups you were running with, the people you knew, but that had a lot to do with, you know, the lack of mental health care I had. There we go. Borderline personality disorder when you're a pretty girl is no joke.

12:19 Yeah, yeah, it impacts your decision making skills a little bit. And, you know, high risk behaviors and high risk behaviors contribute and, you know, lack of stability. You didn't have anything to fall back on. Well, and it was it was especially helpful that nobody everyone just thought I was doing everything for attention. I'm like like and then I got older, I was like, yeah, I actually had a problem.

12:43 Then I started, you know, using medications, things like that, that actually helped it. And I was like, oh, this is, this is what your brain's, this is what balance feels like. Nice. So my worldview comes from, you know, a secular humanist kind of perspective, which is like, you know, good without God type mentality, like believing in people.

13:06 Yeah. Not a not a very highly religious person. Same. Don't believe in any of that stuff. Really? No, it honestly frightens me. Organized religion like, has just lately probably started depression. Yes. It's going to tie into our economy. Perfect for sure. I mean, we're all on that same page. Organized religion is controlled subjugation and manipulation. Elevation scares crap out of.

13:29 Oh yeah, they are the fastest growing megachurch. You're afraid of heights? Oh, with megachurch? No, but the megachurch elevation. I know, pastor. Yeah, I got it, Pastor Steve. But yes, I am terrified about nice tying. No fucking fucking good segue. Yeah. So my my worldview is that I believe that human nature actually is, is actually imbued. Like we're slanted towards the goodness.

13:53 Right? Like we're, we have a bias towards cooperation. We have a bias towards empathy. We have a bias towards, traits that, you know, are constructive, like to work together that help build societies. That's right. Human life. Yeah. Right. Support. And we were just talking about we were I got some views genetically through our nature. And so literally in modern society with all these complexities, the way I view most people, obviously there's exceptions to every rule, the way I have you, most people are I have this phrase, I say good people in bad situations, right?

14:25 Right. Whether it be relationship situations, you know, interpersonal relationships, work situations, you know, life circumstance, situations you can get with the complexities of society can get there's like all these bear traps, right? There's all these traps we can step into so easily. And I think the three prongs are consumerism, in all of its ugly head. Right.

14:49 Organized religion and all of its ugly head and drugs and all of its ugly head. Yes, I think I think those three things just have bear traps, mostly all over the place. And we can step into, well, we can make our society because they have they don't actually do any like investigation into how these things actually affect people.

15:06 Right? Just let it happen and they let it happen. And we have a we don't want drugs to hurt people, but we're not going to do anything to make things easier. Oh, we love Jesus, but we're not going to actually look at the scientific effect of indoctrination into children. Yeah. Yeah. So so when these when these things come back, it's like I call it the trifecta, right?

15:27 Consumerism, religion and drugs. Yeah. Right. And there are extremes when these things get money is centered on what's going on. That's right, that's right. In the kernel level. Right. Yeah. So with overlaps. But in government for example, like when you have a consumer. Right, a Venn diagram. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You can't make a diagram for each individual thing and then know how these factors overlap.

15:48 Right. And money overlays it all. So in government in modern United States, in modern United States government we have a series of it's a kleptocracy, you know, which is 100%, you know, for the rich by the rich government, for the rich by the rich and their businesses and their enterprises. Right. So like big business is integrated fully into government, both parties are completely paid for by, you know, big business.

16:10 Yeah. And so you have these series of industrial complexes. And what that is, is it's consumerism coming through the echelon of government or overshadowing people. So it's like a bear trap that gets put on you. Yeah, right. Not one that you step in as an individual, but one that society then imposes. Like that's the bear trap you're born in.

16:27 Once you enter, like the world. Yeah. So then like, yeah, the constraints you're working within by default. Yeah. So the American dream. So we're talking being like here you have this religious thread coming now over head through government. Right. Creating a bear trap now for society, you know, getting to this extreme right. And now you know, many people.

16:47 And of course, it's always the poor, you know, which has an overlap typically with minorities and anything else. Minority disenfranchized trans LGBT people. We, you know, we read, you know, from, from the first all these groups that have been marginalized and then new groups that have been created in the last couple of generations that are now being marginalized.

17:06 Exactly. So you don't need projections on this. We have historic data. How, you know, when different abortion regulations were in place back in the day, how certain groups suffered. So we already know exactly how that history is going to repeat that 100% like that. They wanted to roll back the clock 50, nearly 50 years of precedent, nearly, you know, a society that had been built around.

17:28 Well, I truly think they're going after people's voting rights 100%. If you take something that is 100% natural in our science filled world today. Something we have the capability of doing and that doesn't actually harmony human life. No. You know, no living breathing person is harmed in the making of this abortion. No. And it like you so you take that and I lost my train of thought.

17:57 Well you're talking it from the scientific perspective. You're saying probably getting to like a quickening or when does life begin type of idea. Right. So, somebody else thought for a second I got up. Okay. So you remember where I was? Where you were to me was living, breathing. Person is not being harmed here. We are dealing with a biological process, and we're just choosing to curtail that.

18:21 All right. Thank you. Yes, thank you, sir, for your assistance. So you take something that's completely normal, being gay, having an abortion. Sure. Being, you know, walking while black, it's that's completely out of the bag when you make these things basically illegal. And, you know, these, black people are going to jail because, you know, they resist arrest after being arrested for no fucking.

18:46 And it dovetails into all the things we were talking about earlier, all the things that have happened in our lives in directories we've taken, you know, it's it really is. We've fallen into some of these traps, into these problems because of lack of support by society. Right. We should be given support to have avoided all of these things.

19:06 Right. And they've already done it to black and LGBT communities because they've made things like prostitution illegal, which is for a long time, how the LGBT community survived a lot. A lot of people survived with prostitution. I didn't know that, it hasn't been that way for a long time, but, and then, you know, they made specific things harder for black communities.

19:30 And now you like lone for LGBT and black people in prison systems and private prison systems than anything else. They outnumber every they are not the minority in the prison system. We'll put it that way. And now what you're doing is taking something completely normal and life saving as abortion and making it illegal in, what, 28 states.

19:53 Yeah. So technology. Right. That takes away 30% of the population vote. If these people then get prosecuted for their miscarriages, for leaving the state for, having an ectopic pregnancy, and the only way they're going to be able to prosecute these people is if they invade privacy. Exactly. They violated every HIPAA law ever made. Yes. And so there we go.

20:17 It's just a way to chip away, claw back some of the progress, some of the rights we think we have and the people I talk to me, we have the people it's going to affect the most are going to be the people who are going to vote against the people who are making these things possible. Yes, because they're not stupid, they're incredibly smart and they're crazy like boxes.

20:36 They know exactly all these people know exactly what they're doing because these voters, these hard, hard right, alt right, whatever people, they show up. Yeah, there's they show up and a lot of them are single voter issues as well. Like, so the abortion will bring the abortion kind of argument, will bring them to the polls. Right. The politicians can really rely on that.

20:55 Oh yeah. That's a way to get they hear guns, Jesus and babies and they're out there. They're out there. And fetuses, fetuses. Right. Not babies. They don't care about the running joke is once a baby born? Yeah. No one cares. Yep. No. And, America where, So you can be born only to die in elementary school. What kind of sound is coming?

21:14 I kind of saw this kind of, rollback of ro coming because of just. Oh, we all did, you know, talking about it and with a lot of people. And so you have this like, first of all, the pro-life people have the right have the better slogan. Right. Because like pro-life, just like, how can you be against that?

21:30 Life begins at conception. Yeah. Well, how can you say I'm not pro-life? Like how, you know, like like for life? Because I mean, how can I know? Yeah, yeah, it's like that pro-life. Pro-Death, right. But we can just do what they did with Black Lives Matter and All Lives Matter. We can be like, well, we're pro-life of people who are actually living and breathing.

21:50 There we go. So, I mean, technically, pro-choice people are more pro-life. Yeah, than the initial pro-life crowd. He's got the good name, I guess, about that. So, like, if you if you were to take pro-life, not just as a, 1 to 1 synonym for anti-abortion. That's right. That's what it means in our current vernacular. Right? Correct. Right.

22:08 Now, when someone says pro-life, that means I'm anti-abortion, right? Right. But pro-life sounds so much better. It's so well branded compared to pro-choice. Yeah. Compared to anti-abortion. Right, right. So like, if if someone says, oh, I'm anti-abortion, that sounds like, you know, you're actually against something progressive but pro-life, like positive, right? That's why they do the March for life.

22:30 There you go. So when you think you're donating to, like, the March of Dimes, they're like, no, we just want to screw women in. Yeah. So. So pro-life. You got them. So, so pro-life has a really good marketing value to it, right? Right. And then the pro-life people have it have a greater motivation because not only not only do they see it as like, you know, something they believe, but they they actually a lot of them actually come from this spiritual perspective.

22:57 Like, they feel like they're doing God's work. Right. And it's been intertwined with the idea of, you know, positively supporting the religion. And so basically they have like the motivation of their, their God behind them. And it's like the, you know, other side usually has more of like an atheistic or a, you know, neutral stance, at least on abortion in that regard.

23:16 And so they don't have that's why there's no some sort of atheist conservative, and if there is, they hide. Yeah, that is a weird combo, but I bet it exists. No, no they do. It's just like, Christian liberal. True. There is plenty of, like, practicing Christian liberals that are like, yes, I'm Christian, but I'm not going to force my views on anybody.

23:36 Right. And that's literally all the only stance everybody ever needs to take. And we'd all be so much happier. But in certain religions or predicated on spreading them like Judaism, don't even get started on me. He doesn't care. Judaism doesn't want you. I need a whole they're good. They're full up on the whole. We got people right. But you know, we've got, I guess, Jehovah's Witnesses.

24:00 Yes. Traditional Christianity, anything Protestant. They are hungry for some more people, whether you make them, which is the whole abortion thing. Let's make some new ones that are born into this bear trap, or whether you, get them to come to you because of lack of support in society and feeling like they have no, nothing else. Right? So I'm not a biblical scholar or anything, but from what I understand, what I heard from people that are is that the Bible doesn't say much about abortion and, you know, yeah, God actually aborted a lot of babies himself.

24:32 I mean, that is true. He there's several passages in there regarding it. And you can just you can just say the crucifixion of Jesus was just a late term abortion. If you want to look. Right. Yeah. But, it's really interesting 30 years in from late term. Yeah. From what I understand is like the idea is that the breath of life, like, you're, you're alive when you've taken your first breath.

24:53 Right? It's like kind of through the Christian ideology, the most part. And then your death is signified by your last breath. So it's like, you know, and from the creationism story, you know, the idea of like, this dirt was accumulator clay or mud or whatever. And then breath was breathed into the the creation. Right. And that was how man was made.

25:11 Well, there's even miscarriages in the Bible. Yeah. There is there's plenty of passages about miscarriage and miscarriage and difficulty in birth. Yeah. Well, and their argument is if you don't want to get pregnant, don't have sex, but the Bible is a perfect example of how that doesn't work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's I'm pretty sure that's the big center around there thing.

25:30 The whole virgin birth. Virgin birth, even though it's probably more, viable than Mary met a Roman soldier she really liked and then tried to hide it. Yeah. But. And, well, last night we went into the idea of maybe Mary was a hermaphrodite, and, you know, a bit of that is always a little, you know, she was able to impregnate herself there.

25:50 A little devil in one night, a little a little diddle went a little. She's got a lock of the Roman soldiers hair, and it's got like, some of the plume from the, you know, she got that hidden in the closet, but. Well, I to the back of the door last night I was saying, I was saying Joseph was a killer.

26:07 Joseph. Joseph was a cook. Yeah. You know, he just liked watching here. And he liked watching the Roman soldiers do it. Take her on the shield. Oh, yeah. Oh, damn. He's wearing the helmet watching. But that's that's one of their biggest arguments is, you know, that's where you don't have sex if you don't want to get pregnant. No.

26:27 We are humans. Yes. Animals have sex for fun all the time. Yeah, but not we. We are really just a different. What do you mean? Why can't we do what we do? But, like, why do we have to be put controls around not having the things around necessary? Yeah. And it's not even like. Yeah, if somebody wants to have sex 30 times unprotected and go get an abortion four times, that's none of our business.

26:50 Like it's just not a big ask you to that baby. I'm not either. You don't have to be an advocate. But the beautiful thing is choice. Nobody's business. And I fully support someone making that decision for themselves. If I'm involved in a relationship, I'm going to do everything I can to not have an abortion happen. Right. But and that is that is a beautiful thing.

27:11 That is the one jority of women. That is how they think. No woman wants to get an abortion. Right. There's I think statistically it was 0.003% of women have multiple abortions because they weren't doing things responsibly. Yeah. So if they're, you know, have it as a form of birth control, which it is a form of birth control. And let's be clear about that.

27:34 But if they use it as like a physical form of birth control, they're like they're like, screw it, I can I was I can just go get an abortion. I think that that falls into that category. And they have a concerted network of people that, you know, care about them, right, that they would probably start talking to them about lifestyle and mental health.

27:50 Right. Point. If someone's like, well, and that's such a small serial abortion percentage, I think it's up there. The percentage of that is the okay with the percentage of immigrants that commit crimes like it's 0.003%. Yeah. And it's negligible. It more. They're using that argument really good. And it's hitting it's hitting with the it resonates with people even though the most of the time people get abortions, they might have 1 or 2, but it's because, you know, they they made a mistake.

28:17 And humans, they make mistakes or they had an up top. And the thing is, they're part of that. Our Bible speaks about that, right? I heard they were to go with that. We are gaffe and mistake, rivet ridden. And you had a miscarriage, right? You know, I had two miscarriages and literally every doctor, every ObGyn will tell you 90% of the reason.

28:39 You will have no idea why you had a miscarriage. There is no feasible way to tell you why that happened. No, we don't know unless you openly like got kicked in the horse by a kicked in the stomach by a donkey. You know, like there's no way to tell, right? That's it. That's a different. That's a that's an R-rated talk.

28:58 Yeah. We can, Yeah. Donkey shows at a level. Oh, no no no no, no, I wasn't thinking in that direction, but, but you have it. So, like, for broadening my vision, there. But. So if I wasn't able to get the pills I needed because my body wasn't expelling it on its own, I had to either have a physical abortion.

29:23 Yeah, or I had to get the pill to help my. But the abortion pill to help my body expel it, right? Luckily, I was able to just expel with the pill, and I didn't have to go get the procedure or anything like that. And because I wanted a baby, if it's not, it's like that whole that whole process sucked.

29:40 I don't recommend now, if I don't want a baby, it probably still would have sucked, because let me tell you the amount of pain. And just like your head is going a mile a minute and I can tell you for the majority of women, men, a lot of times, no offense to you guys or to lump you into that, but men a lot of time called the easy way out.

29:58 I've heard that so many times. It wasn't an easy way out. Yes. Okay. And it is far I don't think it would be, It's okay. It's physical damage, physical pain. The easy way out would be leaving the kid after it's bought. And like. Yeah, people do. The easy way out would be, you know, doing a private adoption or something like that.

30:16 And now doing a stillborn abortion thing. You could hurt yourself in so many ways. I don't think you can so much money when it comes to children. I don't think you can really. Or pregnancy or birth or any parenthood. I don't think you can use the easy way out. Yeah, I guess there's no I guess there isn't an easy button.

30:33 You're not just sitting there. There's no way to get out of this. It it's going to be painful, hurtful and costly. Right? Yeah. And if it's not those things, I mean, metal coat hangers are harder to find these days. I mean, they are. They definitely are. You gotta you gotta hit the laundry mat up. Yeah. I'm trying to go pay for dry cleaning to get them.

30:51 I mean, I guess it is cheaper than an abortion, so not bad, right? Yeah, right. So you gotta find your friendly neighborhood Chinese guy. That's just people or what? There's, like, some people now have in-home ultrasound machines. Yeah, F-16s. Like, they're pretty awesome. Oh, some people that, you know, have had children have some money they buy in and, you know, ultrasound machines.

31:12 Okay. Get as many ultrasounds they want. Well, they're like basically iPhones. All the one. That's crazy. They're pretty cool. These portable, you know, so you can imagine like some back alley abortion is, you know, having access to this technology. Well, you already have back alley ultrasound in places like you can get an ultrasound. There's an American health care, right.

31:32 You know, people who don't have health care because you can't get that's another argument. You cannot get Medicaid or apply for any assistance with, insurance until you have the baby. Wow. So if I don't have insurance, it's not considered a major life event until I'm pregnant, so I get no help throughout that whole pregnancy from anybody, from Medicaid, from anybody.

31:57 So there's no safety net. So because they don't consider it life. Well, what I would love to see is so the insurance companies are united with science on that. Yeah. Wow. And it will forever be that way because it would cost them more money. Way more money. So I really like to see that transition. So if we have this, if we have in some states this like really strong cultural shift to like, you know, banning abortions to some degree, putting all these restrictions whatnot.

32:21 And then this like pro-life kind of encompassing instead of it just me instead of pro-life just being a synonym for anti-abortion. If pro-life could actually become a life stance, right, I would be full respect and be yeah, it would be a lot more on board with it. Now. I wouldn't want some of the really extreme abortion restrictions, right.

32:37 Of course. You know, like after 15 weeks, I think it's something like an international standard is kind of recognizing something like that, right? Somewhere in that window. Unless it's lifesaving. Yeah. But with the exceptions would be. But you know, you rational exceptions. Right. Very rational exceptions. But but when you take this idea of like a life stance, if you will, of a pro-life life stance, if, that, that community, that the religious community, if they were able to take that same influence and power, they had to overturn Roe, like through, you know, stacking the courts and, and everything that happened.

33:08 Right? You guys know you've been there, you saw it happen. If they took that, if they took that and expanded the pro-life ideology, right, and started becoming anti-war and started becoming about, you know, mental health, mental health, mental health, social programs, universal people, universal health care, including mental health, right. Access to, you know, everything running that's so you know that right now in that same universal child kind of Christians.

33:34 Absolutely. Right. Like all the, you know, head Start and all that kind of stuff, everything that like really did propagate life. Right, right. And the sanctity of it and all that kind of stuff. They will never do that. No. Yes. Socialism has been created into such a dirty word. Right. It has you to the word. It's been overloaded.

33:50 Overloaded. So the problem is is this winner take all parody of party. Right. So like in the Republican Party, if you're a Christian conservative or whatever Republican, you then absorb that full buffet of ideology, you know. Right. That group thing. And the same way I would party system has made the tent really big. Yeah. And unfortunately. Right. Unfortunately that prevents it locked in on both sides.

34:16 True progressive thought and ideology because like, listen, if I was sitting here talking with two Christian conservatives, we could probably meet in the middle a lot on a lot of issues that are just human issues. Right? Right. Like like we're just talking about health care, you know, quality, you know, I call it I call it, like, you have these different I call it like the sacred domain.

34:37 Right. So if you imagine, like socialism for the things that are sacred for, for, for humanity and for life, right? Food, shelter, food, shelter, clothing. Right. Health care. Just your basic hierarchy of let's let this person live right. You're born and give this person a chance to live. Yeah. You're born into this country because your mother wasn't allowed to have an abortion right now.

34:57 It doesn't matter. Your food, clothing, shelter, water, it's all education. It's health care. It's all secure. Right? And so we are then having the sanctity of life, this life stance of pro-life. Yeah. Right. Well, I bet you you're sitting this person up for a lifetime of success, that safety social safety net is safe, right? And it's intact. Right.

35:17 So I think that when you really get down to nuts and bolts with pretty much any person in America, they would agree with that. Let's see what's happened. Is that bastardization of consumerism coming through? Our government has created all these things into industrial complexes. Our food system is contaminated. It's an industrial complex. It's the agro industrial complex.

35:34 Our healthcare has been contaminated. It's a health industrial complex, our warfare, it's military industrial complex with the number one, you know, seller of arms around the world. You know, our prison system. Yeah. Everything in privatized space, all these layers of industrial complexes have eroded that sacred domain. Yeah. Right. And that sacred domain is where I'm putting an umbrella around.

35:54 I'm saying pro-life. Yeah. Now I can get on board with that. So if someone says, okay, well, we're going to cut abortion off at 15 weeks because, you know, you have like, unless you're going to die or you've been, you know, yeah, it's just you a situation. Yeah. Like there's no nervous system, there's no brainstem, there's no heartbeat.

36:10 There's, you know, whatever. Well, even at 15 weeks with a heartbeat okay. I don't actually have a no. Yeah, yeah. No it's a series of cells that are. Yeah. It's a spasm. Yeah. Yes yes yes. There's no nervous system. Barely every every wrong. That heartbeat when you are wanting a baby is a beautiful. It is a beautiful sound.

36:28 But let's be real. It's not. Everybody feels that way. It's a collection of stem cells. At that point, it's fairly differentiated stem cells. So some people the sound is the end of their damn life like that. Yeah. So it's interesting. You might have seen these billboards of like, you know, the embryo, you know. Well, it's actually a dolphin I saw, I saw years ago, I forgot with so much commonality in the development between.

36:52 Right. Seem like an a discovery place. I mean, this is way back in the day. I actually saw, like, an illustration that showed with real scale, the size scale from pregnancy all the way up to, like, birth. Yeah, I actually saw somewhere it was like a, you know, they did that body farm, you know, thing. Yeah. Body Works where they showed the people like they had the cadavers.

37:14 Yeah. So you got to see that. I think that was fantastic. It was like that. It was like that. But it wasn't humans. It was like illustrations. And it showed the relative size. Right. And when I saw that I was like oh my gosh it's nothing. Exactly. You know it's like it's like a tiny little. Yeah. You know and it's like it's like the tip of my finger that you hit about your finger.

37:34 Yeah. Until you hit about six months, that's when you really like start to because it's the next. Exactly. Most of your growth. That's why the first three months of pregnancy, a lot of people, they don't necessarily stop what they're doing. Like, some people still have wine, some people still, you know, dabble in their bad habits or, you know, like and I'm not saying it's the best thing to do.

37:56 Right. But I wouldn't recommend. No, I don't recommend. But, you know, that's why those first three months, even your doctor will be like, yeah, I mean, if you eat some cold cuts right now, it's you're going to be the first to like. Yeah. So I think I got live, I think I could become a conservative if, if that pro-life stance actually meant pro-life.

38:14 Correct. Because it was about supporting life, ostensibly because most of the most of the things that I would lump into that kind of life stance lined up perfectly with my ideology. So, like, if honestly, Jesus lines up with my ideological ideology, except for the supernatural part, except for the supernatural part in the fact that he doesn't exist.

38:35 That's, you know, those little things, right? Those little things said Santa Claus really lines up with my right. So but like, if you think about it, like feeding the poor, you know, healing the sick. Yeah. Educating, you know, just everything he did that are and actually and say you're marginalized, but I care about you, right. Like, you know, helping the the disenfranchized like that is on my ideologies line very much up with Jesus.

39:02 And I will never understand how followers of Jesus are so against socialism. Yet because it is literally just taking things that Jesus did and going, let's make this forever. Christianity is it's a study in socialism. It's about community support. It's about tolerance. It's about openness. Yeah. So what happens is that what happens is that you're dealing with the bell curve of intelligence always.

39:26 Right? Like 50% of people are less than average intelligence. Right. And so it's really easy for these like, for most people to grasp, let's say a single, a single level issue. So like physically seeing somebody using a food stamp for example, it's like somebody can say oh that's my tax dollars. Right. And they can physically see somebody.

39:48 Can you hear my eyes rolling. Yeah. Yes. Right. But but but see it's a single layer of, of of rationality. It's a single layer of rationality. One causal link. They only had to do one hop. Correct. Right. Kind of like you're sending a paragraph to somebody and they take one sentence from that paragraph and they're like, why did you say this?

40:06 Yeah, there's one data point. I think it all stems from bad reading comprehension. Yeah it does. And the majority of people don't read past the headlines. Right. And they're using this like, channel through mostly social media. Yeah. This, this barrage of misinformation where a majority of the people, you know, if you say around average intelligence, not even reading past the headlines and then using that to make just to solidify their beliefs and make arguments of how the world works.

40:32 Yeah. You know, and they're definitely the loudest. They are what it, is vocal. In reality, it's the majority. And so if you're a person living in one of these 28 states that you referenced, right? And you're don't have that ideology like you're, you know, believe that abortion is fine and blah, blah, blah. You're, you're suffering the tyranny of the majority in this case.

40:51 Yeah. And that's one of the trappings of a democracy, is that you have and it's kind of why our country is structured way. We have a representative republic rather than just a pure majority rule. Right. Because the tyranny of tyranny of the majority is a real thing. Right? But I think it's become less democratic and more republic. Yeah.

41:08 Not democratic at all. Yeah. Ocracy as I said, yeah, it's a set of it's a set of, can we just like, make a Republic of Texas and like to see if they can do whatever they want? I think, I mean, I think we should shove them all down there, let them do it, see what kind of success they have.

41:25 The world is the world is working towards a unified religion like much. There's too much in one world government. Yeah, well, there's too much, real estate in the US. I think we, bit off a little more. Okay. Yeah, yeah. That's really what was it reminded the 18 1888 Mexican treaty. I think we should have just left that day.

41:44 Maybe let them keep the whole ball. Yeah, let them keep let them keep Mexico instead of going. Get out! But wait. Come back. We need you. So you can imagine. Like this. Like this. This actual pro-life life stance being integrated into government. Being integrated into society. Can you imagine this? Right, right. And someone like you described has that second abortion.

42:03 Right now now don't forget health care. And you know all these things are readily accessible accessible. Imagine this without having to go in debt and be harmed. Right. And so what happens is after that second abortion, it triggers a certain session like, like, you know, not not like, you know, force putting someone in prison or anything like this, but it triggers them a referral to, to a specialist mental health specialist in reproduction.

42:29 Right. So, you know, I'm saying a specialist in reproductive, I can believe the social work visit where the person says answers, okay, you know, you've had your second abortion, so we have to have this session. And they talk through what led to these. Look, I'd even be willing to do that at this point. Like, no, but that's a pro-life stance.

42:45 It is. And I'm saying, yeah. And and it's not to like, penalize the lady would be to talk through why you're having abortion right there, man. We are need to divorce that on that. Right? I think most of us would. But I think we would need to divorce it of, judgment and and, and I wasn't planning judgment here.

43:04 Right. I'm just saying, let's talk through what's leading to all these abortion. Right. But, you know, the but if they wanted to meet us in the middle, they'd probably want to impose a little bit of judgment. But also, at this point, I don't think anybody's willing to meet in the middle. Nobody will ever be willing to meet in the middle for the simple fact that abortion is healthcare.

43:20 Okay, so then you roll that back and you say, well, because so the insurance companies, I have a vested interest to campaign against it and lobby against it. And I have the money because abortion is healthcare. It is it is 100% health care. More abortions are performed for lifesaving reasons than any other reason. Wow. And it's and if that lifesaving reason is because if this lady brings a baby into the world, it's not going to have a good life.

43:43 To me, that is a lifesaving reason. I think that is saving a life. That is, let's be honest, childbirth is an extreme traumatic event. So traumatic, right? So traumatic. I don't know why I did it twice. I love my kids, but I was like, hey, this was terrible, let me do it again. Because what what gets the whole thing started is, is it's fun times.

44:01 Yeah. Well, and that's the whole thing, like, so traumatic experience. That's our choice to choose whether or not we do it. It's just as simple as that. Men will never understand because they don't. We can't go through it. We can't. And but they can, like fathers of children, have some semblance of empathy towards it because they watched, you know, their wives spew life into the world, right?

44:24 But watch people's people get just busted open, right, to deliver a baby. But that's like, that's the thing. Like it's if I have to have, you know, four different abortions, that is that is entirely my right. And nobody else should be able because you know, that's that's you know, they're raised on health care and privacy laws. Okay. So so why not necessarily a mandatory session that it becomes available but make it an option.

44:50 So they would just be able to talk to these people right. Yeah. Like well and I think you maybe honestly. So even implementing that would be a bit much because if you have somebody who in that .00 3% of people who get abortions multiple for, you know, ridiculous reasons because they're just being unresponsive, do you really want that person to have a baby?

45:13 Well, so if they get 3 to 4 abortions and they're, they're callous about it, they don't want that kid. Do you really want them having a baby. I'd rather them have all four of those. Abortion point. That's the 400,000 kids in foster. And if someone has an early introspection to say, look I'm a selfish person, I want to do what I want.

45:33 I want to keep doing drugs, or I want to keep having this lifestyle. There's a shortage of babies. There's a shortage of adoptable Christian babies. And I guarantee you that has something to do with why they're pushing this, pro-life stance. Dang. And then, I mean, it goes back to their that's how their religion propagates. They need some more people.

45:54 So you can see now contamination again coming through the infrastructure of government through like consumerism. Because in in in capitalism you need a growth market. Right. So you always need more population. Everything needs to grow, grow, grow in order for, you know, the, the that's how we basically measure GDP. Right. So right on expansion of all these different commercial enterprises and so like an ever increasing population is, is germane to the health of, of that type of model, right.

46:18 Economic model, you're going to have a product if you have more people generating resources. Yeah. So I believe in I believe in measuring progress in a different way, like changing the changing the like, not the way GDP is calculated. That's its own measure. That's fine. Changing the way that we view our success as a nation. So if it's, you know, comes through these different pillars of success, if we measure the health and wellness of our people, mental and physical, right, educational attainment, different things like, enterprise technology growth, you know, these type of metrics.

46:49 If we look at those type of things, you know, how applied technology we applying technology for to sell weapons and warfare. Are we applying technology to, to increase the productivity and health and wellness of the world. Yeah. Right. Are we are we taking as a nation the spirit of our nation? Are we going to take this pro-life life stance and stamp out poverty in the world because we actually have the power, and I think the lens we need to put it all through.

47:12 What if we make decisions with this pro-life stance or supporting more growth is put it through the lens of choice first. Do not limit the choice of those involved in the program. Open their choice. Make things available like okay, drugs. All right, you're on heroin. We're going to give you clean needles and clean product. You know it's like what is the law Enforcement Against Prohibition?

47:35 Yeah. They literally just want all drugs legalized. They're like, why are we doing this? What are we doing? And it's like, you know, we create programs that support these choices but give people alternatives that are viable. Yeah. Like the industrial complexes are what creates that that system. Right. The prison industrial complex needs the criminalization of drug. All right.

47:54 So and the courts will tell you making it illegal doesn't stop people from getting high. But nobody feels that way about abortion or drugs. Right. But it's true. And it is. It is one. When you curtail and limit people's choice, they're going to have an end run around it. There's going to be a shadow economy to support doing whatever you said that people don't need to do.

48:15 Like I don't think for one second. So why not tax, regulate and put controls around it by making it up right. Like and I don't think for one second that stricter gun laws are going to make us like any safer, honestly, because America is just batshit crazy going on its own, on its own, the beat of its own drum right now.

48:32 But it's it's something to like, I don't know, it's going to it's going to make it so that you have actual, like, repercussions for irresponsible gun owners and that that's, that's honestly going to make a huge difference. It's not going to stop anything. But if you have like so I know I know somebody who had a gun in their car and they always kept it in their car and it got stolen.

48:58 Hey, go figure. Cars are really easy to get into and guns are really cool, so let me go steal that. It's also one of the primary things people look for that rob homes. Right. So you would think, well and when they rob cars they check the glove box and under the seat. What are they looking for? It. Guns, jewelry, money?

49:15 Drugs. Yeah. And so, you know, you get people he, you know, instead of taking that experience, you know, you're going in my car, you're going to end up with is like a pacifier that's eight years old, but just fries that, you know, fish. Yeah. Some goldfish for goldfish, some fries. You know what I mean? Like maybe a baby diaper that I forgot about.

49:36 You know, so someone celebrating the micro and then not finding drugs, cash money, you know, anything really good? They're just going to keep pulling shit out and going. Oh, yeah. I had my car window broke. Disgusting. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Oh, really? Shopping for that? No. You're good. You know, that is hilarious. I think your car window was actually broken into, and I had idea it was in my my crappy little tire.

49:57 And, like, I had to go a lot of garbage. It's the worst. The worst thing is like, fuck no, I got to pay to get that goddamn window, right? I mean, even the car wasn't even worth that much money. So someone gets $1.50 and change and they break your window, and it's $150. Jesus. That's like it. Right? So my.

50:14 Not my, this person I know, they they contact the police, they let them know that their firearm is a registered firearm. They let them know it's stolen. Yeah. Do the right thing. Awesome. You would think in that sense, you would then go let me keep my gun inside. With me. Let me go buy another gun and put it back in the car.

50:30 No. Yes. Right. You buy another gun and put it back in the car. Got robbed again and he got robbed again. So this, this if you put I can guarantee you a lot of people don't do stuff in this country because they don't want to get fined. We don't have money. We don't have money to pay for these things.

50:45 So I guarantee you, if you at least put some kind of like, hey, dumb ass, your gun got stolen not once, but twice, you get a $1,500 fine like. And if your gun is ever used in a crime, you get fined again. Then, I mean, in reality, you could use that as, like, a back channel to providing guns for shady people like you buy the gun, you register it.

51:10 Your friend that breaks in right through breaks in, quote unquote, steals the gun. And then you file their police report. But now your friend's got the gun. It's like a back channel way to get a gun, right? So right now you're a gun to a criminal. Well, and they're always going to have like, he's, like I said, you can't stop people from getting these things.

51:26 Just like you can't stop people from getting abortions or right, being in, you know, LGBTQi relationships or anything, like, you can't stop can't stop these things, so why not embrace them as part of human choice, common sense laws or ordinances or something? Well, something that puts some kind of boundaries around it but doesn't prevent it because it won't affect the responsible people.

51:49 Yeah. It's not. All right. So wait a minute. This idea of like, we can't stop it, so why don't we just allow it, you know, within allow and regulate, just like, you know, regulate, stop people from driving their cars. So let's allow it's the same. I have to agree with that until it's something we don't agree with. Like, so if we say pedophilia or child porn, you know, whatever.

52:08 But reality okay. Now all of a sudden here hold on. Now all of a sudden people start marching to a different time. But these things take away choice, okay. And I think that's what we're predicated upon. Okay. Child porn takes away a child's joy, right? Bestiality. The animal cannot consent to said thing. Okay. It's causing harm to that animal.

52:30 Maybe harm to yourself if you're taking a horse cock in your butthole and. Well. And the pedophile is taking with it doesn't give the child right, the pedophile takes away the child's choice. So I'm saying, you know, I'm okay with just my abortion isn't taking away any human life or anyone right to make another choice, right? You know, my my gay marriage is not taking away anybody else's, right.

52:53 My gun, my registered, safe, locked up gun isn't taking away anybody else's choice right now in my. It might one day, but it's not relevant until a bullet goes through. Until somebody breaks in my house. Yeah, it's not a choice. It's so. So the idea of, like, so long as something isn't taking away someone else's choices, then that's going to be something that we kind of permissible.

53:17 I would, I think general framework or any like framework to do with first. Okay. I think as a society and a mass majority, we all agree that those aforementioned things are just not good. Yeah, the vast majority of people are like, no, well, they don't fit in the category we were talking about earlier. And I think building. Right.

53:37 And I think that does have something to do with we do have a very vaguely moral society. We do we do hold morals. And this man can talk about his stance on that a lot. And generally atheists tend to have, you know, better and follow their morals a little better, but that's a whole because they arrived at those conclusions themselves and they're invested in them, not with the threat of heaven or hell.

54:04 Yeah, right. So it's when you when you take like the shortcut of saying like, God, right? You can then say, well, everyone has a conscience. Conscience. And that's I think it's passing the buck. Yeah. Everyone has a built in conscience because like, goes through the machine type thing, right? Right. And that conscience is influenced by the Holy Spirit, right?

54:21 By the Holy Ghost in the Holy Spirit orienting human beings to the good. I take the evolutionary approach. I think that humans are successful as a species because we've evolved these traits right, right there, imbued in us through biological evolutionary theory. Right. Right. And so then, like I said earlier, our ability to cooperate, work together in groups, these type of things right.

54:39 Have strong empathy, high compassion for each other like anger for example. Empathy is the biggest thing. Yeah, yeah. You can say 300 and empathy or something like this that society lacks a lot of. Yeah. So people understand and empathize. We have this emotional brain mostly. It's more on emotion and impulse for the most part. Right. And then we have a rational, you know, kind of, system on top of that.

55:02 Back in regular. Do we, do we we do. We feel like it's God, we have gray matter in the building and reason and stuff like that. Right. And that will came a lot of times override in Trump the emotional center of the brain. But it takes a conscious effort. Right? Right. So, you know, modern man, this the fabric of society and the social constructs, everything that that from culture to laws to everything, you know, interpersonal group dynamics.

55:25 Right. All that stuff in our, kind of rest, rational state of the brain, it's not always working. That's why. Right. Oh, wow. That's right. So when you when you have a certain, like, rail riding hobo, right. The sounds of the city. When you have a certain ideology. Okay, that ideology that's rash, that you've rationalized, that you're then the lens through which you're viewing the world, if it's incongruent with with reality.

55:56 Right, right. It takes ever increasing effort to maintain when when your rational outlook of the world is, is congruent with reality, it's less effort on your part because your emotional center and your rational center are lining up better. So like say like me looking at the world and somebody who is super Christian looking at the world are not going to be the same thing I think they're going to have to do, honestly.

56:19 They have to do more work less, right. That's what that's what I'm saying. They have to do more work so than it necessitates to keep their views. Yes, where they need them to be in order to maintain that level of religiousness. That's right. And so what happens then is they must be in the world, but not of it right there.

56:35 Their brain then has to take certain shortcuts in other domains, like for example, instead of instead of saying like really trying to rationalize like where did the how did the world come into existence, right? They then just say, oh God made it. Yeah. So now they're relieved of that, of the kind of the effort to have to contemplate that.

56:52 And it almost seems like it would cause less anxiety. But I think it causes more because then you have because it's essential. Right? Yeah. That you have to like, do all of these things and abide by this. Me, on the other hand, I'm like, all right, I'm going to die one day. I should probably do some stuff. Yeah, right.

57:06 I should probably be a nice person. Yeah, because it feels better than being an asshole. Yeah. And you know, your list of priorities ends up completely different. Complete. You end up more external focused than internal. When you're managing this inner life of Christianity, and you're also feeling like you have these externalities watching you and bearing down on you your entire life.

57:28 You're stuck here. You're whirling around inside. It's all internal and it's all it's a struggle to reach out and help another person because you're dealing with all this. But whenever you're an atheist and you're free of that burden, you see what's outside. You take what's outside, you bring it in, you understand it. You try to process it, you pursue it well.

57:48 You ever see a Seth MacFarlane and, Family Guy's version of, in one of their multi-verse episodes where Christianity. Never. Religion. Never. Oh, dude, I didn't him and Brian end up there, and Brian's like, what is this? And he's like, oh, Brian, this is a multiverse. What? Christianity never existed. And they are like a thriving, beautiful.

58:07 Is it, you know, like, well, that's, And he's not wrong. He's not wrong. Religion is taken us back over and over and over and over to dark ages. Dark ages. Yeah. But I think a lot of the, the biggest problem, like, so in the time that we've all been talking, each time one of us talks like, yeah, we get on different tangents and stuff and talk about different things.

58:29 But if you're talking about something that you feel like, you know, I'm listening to understand. Yeah, I'm not listening to respond. So I'm trying to understand your point and then give you a response or then give you an opinion. Yes. And that doesn't happen. People literally listen to respond and they listen to your argument and go, no, all right.

58:50 As you're talking, they're already formulating their their response, even though you your thought is complete. Well, and it's completely normal to like sit there and think, especially with someone with social anxiety, to think about what you're going to say before you say it. But. But it's, it's it's people are just they don't they'll ask you a question and then immediately respond to your question with their answer.

59:17 And that's when you're going to say yes. They've decided what you're going to say before you say it, and then already develop an opinion without even listening to what you're going to say. Right? So say your local church will give you an ideology that's ready, at the ready to respond to things that pop up in society, you know.

59:35 Right. They give you like a controversy. You're like, oh yeah, my, my for Christianity. Thank you for calling Jesus my family. Right. That's awesome. And then your political party will do the same thing. It'll give you your talking points, you know, down the line of your ideology. Right. And so what that inevitably ends up with at the end of the day is, is a is a crippling effect on a progressive society.

59:56 Society can't be as progressive when you have all these groups of which you're affiliated with that have the preset ideologies, right. And then a lot of them are really locked in tight. And so the church going back to the idea of, you know, kind of the fundamental ideas is that the brain then is emotionally feeling something different than what the ideology is saying.

1:00:16 So, for example, Christians believe that by nature, you know, man is born into sin, for example. Oh yeah. Like man is evil. And without Jesus, I don't know how you can look at a little baby degraded, sinful look at the baby. And and the neutral stance is like, you know, tabula rasa, you're born clean slate. Right?

1:00:33 And then the environmental will shape you from there. And then there's this other ideology that the one that I have is I think that people are born oriented towards the good side. Like like I said several times now, and so, what matches up with reality? Well, when you go throughout everyday society emotionally and you're interacting with the world, you're what you're what you're seeing, if you're being fair, is, people in the majority being gracious to one another, holding the doors, not coming over into your lane, you know?

1:01:01 Right. Using a blinker. Yeah. No no no no, don't get me wrong. I say happens from time to right. Yeah. Someone left the door. But for the most part, there aren't wrecks every five feet. People are staying in their own line and doing their own thing. Right? Well, and if somebody drops some money, you give it back to them.

1:01:15 Oh, thank you so much. You know, like it's. Yeah, exactly. We are a fairly. So we're not like England by any means. We're not like the polite society of the world. True. But there is societal politeness in there. Yeah. So if you're just an observer of the reality, like trying to zoom out and look objectively at what's going on around you, you'll see most things happening in harmony.

1:01:36 Harmony, right? And most people being good to one another on, on the, on the level. Right on the, in the in the majority. Right. Well and if you leave, unfortunately our society has not been taught to talk about things like religion or politics and, and adult way. But if you think about it, you know, living in New York, I need to make my kids friends.

1:01:56 I live, you know, in the country, in South Carolina, and I need to get my kids friends. Well, none of these moms and dads are going to align with anything I believe. And but I still I can't penalize my kids for not knowing. I'm probably not going to get along on like a deep level with these people.

1:02:12 True. But as long as we keep it to, you know, our children day to day things, our lives, it's because you guys are living your life. Yes, we're living a similar life. We are all just like we're all cogs that it machine, right? You know, we are all just trying to do our best, for ourselves or our children or our family members, and I can I can 100% appreciate that everybody is voting not for, like, a lot of the right side of the spectrum votes for themselves instead of society as a whole.

1:02:45 Yeah. So it's and it's I don't blame them for voting selfishly. I don't, like I said, good people in bad situations. Right. And then I also say commonly, people do the best they can with what they have. Right. So like most of I believe that most everything is shaped by environmental. You know, I, I'm much more of a deterministic person over a free well person.

1:03:06 I think determinism is tremendous evidence for determinism. And so yeah. Where are you spend time with it's going to affect you more than anything. Now back to this idea of, of this person with a certain ideology, right, and a certain belief system that's incongruent with their observable reality that they're seeing every day, that they're feeling emotionally. Now, there's now there's a disconnect between their rational way that they view the world, right?

1:03:28 Right. Like their ideology, their philosophy versus then their emotional, experience encounters every day. And so when those those get really out of sync right now, there's an energy gap. It takes a lot of energy. Then to try to explain then why there's that differential. And so the, the church is right there for you. Right, right. Oh it's because they're sinners.

1:03:51 Yeah. The reason you don't feel in sync with these people is because you're saved. Right? Right. And they're not they're heathen sinners. Right. And so then the church is just ready. The institutional church is just ready to then compartmentalize you even more. And then it creates an us versus them situation. Exactly. You become more insular and you become more dependent upon the emotional support of the of said group.

1:04:12 Exactly. And then it entrenches the groups and polarizes even more and becomes these echo chamber feedback loops, right. And blocks a progressive society. Right. So party affiliation is terrible. Card carrying church member is terrible. Card carrying atheist actually could be terrible as well, because you're as soon as you adopt the ideology of the group and disconnect yourself from you know that that group is providing all these answers for you, right?

1:04:39 Alleviating the pressure in your mind, because now you don't have to think as much. Right? Right. So like, I just you would think I would make it easier, but I like I can clearly see how that would be easier. It, it does in a way like it adds the ignorance makes it easier. That's correct 100% anger is definitely bliss.

1:04:56 Oh yeah, we all know that. Oh yeah, it makes sense, right? I think it also makes it they have to sit there and like, what's the word I'm looking for? They have to like, rationalize with themselves why they do it on a, on a regular basis. What are you playing for? God is doing this. No, I'm not going to look at that because God like it's almost like it seems like a lot of work.

1:05:18 It is a lot of work. I can say that growing up in the church saying my parents, my grandparents, how much mental gymnastics and emotional gymnastics they had to go through to get through the day because they were constantly confronted with things that were incongruent to their reality, and they had to deal with them as society changed. My mom had a real problem with the internet that was, that was just that blew the lid off her little world.

1:05:42 And it was up. Every religion has Catholic guilt. Yeah. You know, like, it's like Catholic guilt that Catholics coined that they did their. And they own it to the degree that every religion has that guilt factor. Yeah. And I say I would just, I wouldn't that feel correct? I don't know about you guys, but when you feel guilty about something like I, I mean to my husband one day I, I'm like, oh really sorry I yeah I think it's a way to your soul.

1:06:05 Right. Like, I just, I, I accidentally my gentle parenting stopped for a second and I yell at my child, I'm like, I'm really sorry. Do you need a hug? Like, you know, like that that guilt has to eat away it from it does it, and it affects your actions and your capabilities. What you can do, it's kind of like, it's almost like a process running in a computer, taking up all the memory and processing power.

1:06:28 It's like running around the background just eating things up. You don't have the bandwidth to pay attention to the world around you, where to act or to do things where the amount of bandwidth I need. And I guess, like I said, you know, the ignorance helps because they're not paying attention to the same things. I'm paying attention to a good point.

1:06:45 But like, I just feel like if I got it would be so much work. Yeah. Like I was indoctrinated as a small child. My parents didn't know. Like that's what you did. You were either Catholic or Episcopal where I grew up. So, you know, I was baptized Episcopal, went to church a few times. But even at like the ripe age of six years old, I was like, this is weird.

1:07:07 I never wanted to go back. Like I wanted to go to church for the Friendly's we got after, oh, it's nice. And you know, my parents are probably a common experience and. Right. Yeah, like, my parents were cool with it because my mom's like, well, we did it because we were supposed to. All right. So like, my dad's was more like, it's like an umbrella.

1:07:24 Like, if I have it, I need it. If I don't, I don't like. That's what he was like, yo. As time went on, they both became more of the umbrella. But, you know, like, it's God, I'm having trouble right now having to deal with people in my family who might try and indoctrinate my children later in life. And then, yeah, I've been through that experience.

1:07:43 It's again taking away a choice for somebody. More than anything. It is. It's really imposing a reason to go to church shouldn't be allowed until they're capable of, right? Until you reach some kind of age, a determination to make a real decision, think critically. And so I'm going to say, because the church doesn't like that, because then very few people, you know, critical thinking is evil.

1:08:03 The sooner the sooner you get people. So that's why they made all those pokey stops at churches. They were trying to get millennials and Gen X or Gen Z in their town. Okay, stop 100%. That's why there was Pokemon stops at churches. How do you know how much of an object they saw of people like my age?

1:08:19 Your age? Your age? Younger because they need to go in there and catch Pokemon? Because they need to get Pokemon. You know what that is the most like together I've ever seen in the world. Even more so than after 911 when Pokemon came out. We were all just happy for the Pokemon that like, touches children. Is that. Oh, I got one of those in the church.

1:08:37 Oh yeah, it's Pokemon Go. Oh, it's called you. Listen. Oh Priscilla's Priscilla, he transforms into Cardinals. Oh, the dam evolves and evolves into populace. Wow. Populace choirboy attack! Yeah, yeah. Molestation. Frankincense and myrrh. Myrrh. Altar boy. He used holy water. He used only water. You must get down on your knees. Did you hear that, altar boy? Mirror?

1:09:11 Oh, my God. So, back to the topic. Getting out of hand. Back to that topic. So, like, the core idea here is abortion, right? So, like, I feel as if I have somewhat of a progressive stance towards it. I feel as if I do. I probably don't right. Like a man, you know, has a disassociation with it, which is true.

1:09:30 Right. So but it's not like I don't have a motion. You have to be able to empathize with. Yeah. That's right. You're not sympathizing with her. You're empathizing. Yes. We've all felt extreme pain. We've got an idea. So in an ideal head trauma. Yes. Which has to be insanely traumatic. As we touched on earlier, we're all just, you know, parts of trauma.

1:09:51 Yeah. Big old boiling pots of trauma. So you have, in the United States, a large number of people that still believe in angels. And, you know, it's like a high percentage. Right. And, but some of the, some of the data that's out now highly suggest that the younger people are the church is waning a lot younger people are having Exodus and upwards of the church.

1:10:12 And, that's a sign that in the future, the influence of the church and the clergy, you know, and the different religions that you find the United States mostly Christian based, they're Abrahamic based, but mostly Christian, are going to wane over time in society. And this is this is being seen in, Europe as well. Right. There's this trend towards a long, long term trend of decline in the church and ideology.

1:10:33 Right. But we're still right now in 2022. And, you know, it's still in a high, you know, rate of people that believe things like you can break down in different ways, but like spirituality and, and, and angels and all these kind of things. There's a high belief system still in the United States that is I mean, our see, if it was what the statistics were between boomers, Gen X, millennials and Gen Z.

1:11:00 Like what I want to see that chart of younger and younger, the less the less involved they are. The church and the less beliefs they have in these type of things. Which is why those megachurches are marketing the hell out of themselves. Why they you ever drive up to an elevation? It's like a club. It's like a dance party.

1:11:15 They are techno when it up in somehow, it's like, oh God, it's an awesome man. And it's like, well, oh yeah. And there's a there's people out there like breaking it down. People are there to work in. And so it's terrible. But the thing is you watch their online materials and they say things like they have, they have this British lady saying, oh, people upside down twerking on a wall.

1:11:36 Oh, it's like Jesus wanted this. Jesus wants this. Of course he wants it for Jesus to work for Jesus. Oh, damn. So the big the big thing. Hey, you could probably market your thing earlier. The Christians, probably the chastity. So that's also. No, no, no, no, it's off the record. Oh, sorry. But yeah. So the big thing that I don't read out of watching some of their materials, like in Chiefs, was like 2012 was they had this British lady on there who calmly say things like, we need your seat.

1:12:13 Like, if you've been here for a while, we need that church and we need you to leave so the new people can come in and be energized and give us more of their money than you're giving us now. Because you've been here for six months, you're probably giving us less money. Yeah. And she would calmly say things like that almost exactly like I just said.

1:12:29 It. Well, in case anybody's wondering, you can actually, if you see any churches out with, political signs you can call the IRS on, there really is their tax exempt status. It's a great thing. They can they can. It doesn't mean they always will, but they can't. They're not going to. Damn it. But I can try. Damn it.

1:12:46 Yeah. Hahahahahahahaha I love it. So, I love it. Back to this abortion idea. Right? So, like, this progressive idea towards abortion is if you put it in the matrix, put it in the, the buffet or the full range of, of of birth control options. Right. You have all these different things, you know, condoms to birth control to the pill, the ideas to vasectomies, all these different, you know, full recommendations.

1:13:09 Yeah. Yeah. Right, right. That women can't get because doctors is like, you might change your mind right there. Like, if you get divorced and your husband wants a baby. Yeah. What if your husband was. I don't really care what. My husband. Yeah. Yeah. So. So in this, it's I understand it's permanent in a highly technical environment where society is being pressed in every direction from technology advance.

1:13:30 Right. Reproduction is another domain of that. That was heavily influenced by the hand of technology. Right. Science, technology. Yeah. So, what I would advocate for, like trying to be progressive on the idea is, is this composite, training, if you will. So like when, sex education but with modern, with a modern, actual helpful celibacy based.

1:13:56 Yeah, exactly. Sex education. No, that is a huge thing. That is science based and society based. Understanding the cross section between where they both meet. Yes. You know. Yes. And so what I'm saying is that, because technology is advancing in these different things about, you know, reproductive health and reproductive rights and what's available as far as technology goes, not only just, you know, young people being trained by, you know, their parents and then some, you know, traditional sex education through school and all that stuff, but actually like a, a social, service to where actually adults are educated on the advancements and the changes in reproductive health.

1:14:32 Right, right. Because they're inevitably the ones training the younger generation. Right? Right. And so parents like, I don't, I don't have access to like, a free clinic on reproductive, you know, understanding all the current advances and stuff. And so that would take a lot of the that would that would do a lot to like transform the cognitive viewpoint that we have a reproductive health that's really good with by really expanding the access to information about the modern advances in reproductive health.

1:15:00 But unfortunately, that would go against a lot of the very Christian religions is even teaching about those things. Because to think about those things, that's it. Yeah. Right. So and then it's like, okay, the sin is in the act, not the thought. Right. And so being prepared before you get into the act. But I completely understand what you're saying, like you are, you are 100% correct on that.

1:15:21 So I'm a heavy advocate for education, education and right and governing and education on every level. Then the older people, the younger people, you know. Yes. Like I told somebody on on a continued terrible Facebook comment recently, a Facebook argument was that, you know, you you act like you want to do all these things to help others, but you don't do anything you don't agree with, two year college, but yet, like free.

1:15:50 Where? Yes, for free. But we're all over here going. Wait a minute. If we have masses that are educated, our country would actually thrive. Things like, you know, people having all these babies and not knowing what to do with them, it wouldn't happen. It. You know, if we had educated masses, our country would thrive like never before because we could even have religion.

1:16:13 Yes, but with actual education and that religion as a as a supplement, not right. The be all, end all, it can be the gravy on top, not the driving force. Right. So there's, there's a like I said, you got to remember that bell curve distribution of intelligence. So no matter how much education you throw at it, you're going to have a bell curve distribution.

1:16:32 Right. But at least we would raise the bottom right. No we would for sure. Education is you know, free public education is a cornerstone of you know, what one of the things that's guaranteed, right. Like everyone has to be one of the socialist things everyone likes. But then which is about, yeah, there we go. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

1:16:48 But you have to always govern or legislate or create regulation or come from the ideology that there's a bell curve. Right. And so a certain amount of people like let's say after the first standard deviation down on the side of like what's intelligent, they need to be cared for and carried by those that are involved in their lives, right, right through these processes.

1:17:10 So education really serves really well for the people that are caregivers of other people that are less intelligent. Exactly right. And so having a general access to the stuff in society will take the people that that can actually then carry, if you will, those that are less intelligent in this area because they have the knowledge. Right, right. If we if we pick them up and help them build up, we would probably have more of a thriving society at that point.

1:17:35 But instead, you know, the, unfortunately, the less intelligent breed a lot faster. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard that. Yeah, that is what I've heard that. But but, you know, intelligence is going to be a fluid thing based on the environment. So someone can come from an unintelligent family and become a Nobel Peace Prize winner, given the right environmental right.

1:17:53 So, I really am a high, high advocate for, really strong advocate for this idea that all government should happen from the idea from the from the mental disposition of determinism like belief that the environment is going to sculpt society. I 100% agree and divorce it from, you know, separate the church and state for real and different real, right?

1:18:15 Yeah. So I just pay lip service, right. You know, that's really what we're doing. Start to take start to take free will out of the calculus. So like when you when you see someone come up from the from the hood becomes a gang banger and ends up in prison for doing a drive by. Right. That, that is not just viewed as that person's choice.

1:18:33 It's viewed as a systemic failure of society. Right. And then that we take some culpability there and take and we bring it in and we learn from it and we do things like hey, you know, but hey we amp up jobs like caregiving like we were talking about and we support those jobs. Make it an actual job.

1:18:52 Say, all right, you're given a stipend by the government because you are taking care of this less intelligent person. You're doing this. People have this ideology that everybody has to pull themselves up out of stretch. Yeah. That's ridiculous. Yes. And it's completely and utterly just impossible. It is. And the myth of the lone inventor in America as well.

1:19:11 I did this completely by myself. I am Elon Musk. Yeah. The only reason I am where I am right now is because I met my husband that's, you know, that is I, I would have probably just been struggling just as hard as I was 15 years ago had I not met my husband. Yeah. He gave me the financial stability.

1:19:33 Yeah. And helped me with my own financial stability. And, you know, we were able to create a financially stable life for us and our kids. Yeah. And but without him and honestly, his generational wealth that he's had, I wouldn't be where I am right now at not following anyone looking at it from. I could have worked my ass off my ass, off in a field that I really love, you know, working with animals and animal welfare and, veterinary technology, which is very, very much an essential, very essential field.

1:20:05 Absolutely. And I would have never been able to pull myself up by my bootstraps because the pay and right inflation and inflation and everything like that. So that's exactly what we're talking about here, because the belief that pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is the domain of complete free will. It's free will that governs everyone's life, right? Nobody else but you.

1:20:23 You could do it, right. Whatever. Camp. Yeah. It's a lot of things other than just me. It's a no brainer that, like, you know, Bezos can't be insanely wealthy without having an infrastructure. Yeah, Amazon can't exist without roads and no internet and all the infrastructure that is public. Yeah, right. So like takes a village, right? Hahaha. So so determinism is like the data shows that determinism is the governing for is a is a governing force.

1:20:49 In reality, there's evidence for determinism. There's absolutely no even though everyone believes it, there's no evidence for free will. And it's sad, but it's it's there's just. No I have no evidence for the theory. Yeah, but that doesn't mean there's not a strong belief in it. Right. And some of that I talked to at length about free will versus determinism, but free will does have does have its place because the belief system in free will, you know, if you if you had no belief whatsoever in free will, you'd have a hard time getting out of bed every day.

1:21:16 Yeah, well, it frees you. Yeah. The belief system in free will frees you to have self agency, to be in control of some action and to feel like you're contributing and doing something well. That's why I think the non-religious or the less spiritual people tend to thrive because they're like, well, I can make this choice because it feels good, or I can not make this choice because it feels bad.

1:21:37 Yeah. And it's like there is I think they, embrace that free will more. And it tends to go to the, the, the more moral side of the, the free will spectrum, if you will, I guess so. So, so another way to see. Yeah. See the roots of society is to take take the take what society emphasizes and showcases.

1:22:01 And understand that that's going to be in the extreme because the, the attention always goes in society to something that's an outlier. Like we notice outliers much more than we notice norms. Right, right. So for example, the evening news always has, always has the doom and gloom stuff. Right, right. Like that. Like let's be honest, if there was a dumpster fire happening right now, that would be taking our attention more than just the normal flow of traffic, right?

1:22:26 More than that loud train going back. Right. So what am I, right? That's funny. What we do is we we create in our in our minds. It's just because it's natural to do it. We start to piece together a worldview based on the outliers. Right. So like if you watch the evening news every night and that was your worldview, you think the world is on fire.

1:22:44 And they've proven that people who do watch the news more often or older are more paranoid. They're more insular. They're they're scared to go out. Right. I meanwhile, I'm not just watching the 6:00 news. I'm reading actual, you know, science journals, medical journals going on. Yeah. Yes. The internet, everybody gives everybody a platform, but it also gives everybody a platform, which can be good.

1:23:04 Yes. When you're actually trying to find out real correct information and you know how to use Google, there we go. And have a bullshit filter. And you know, you're right and generally determine if something seems like it might be. The majority of the country doesn't even know how to properly use a Google search bar and like, you know, use the parentheses, the hyphens, the yeah, the quotes to figure out what you actually need.

1:23:26 Yeah. What you're truly looking for. Not just like all the misinformation that pop up there. I mean, you can just type in positivity. Pedestrian. Well there. Yes, we are a wellspring, a fountain. I like the verifiable information. Yeah, it'll it'll it'll pop up right. You know, I mean, that's why Lindsey wanted to aid us in our need to broadcast information.

1:23:49 I enjoyed the conversations you guys are having. I did about 4 or 5 of them. And it definitely kept my attention more than the dishes did. So that way, you know, I was like, oh, that's good. Love that. You know, I, my daughter was saying mama, like 3 or 4 minutes before I realized she was saying, mama.

1:24:04 Oh, shit. So, you know. But no, you guys, I enjoyed the conversations you guys were having, and I really appreciate you letting me, like, come in and join every damn time anyone. Like I said to him, I got the face for radio, and I. And I really, I truly enjoyed you guys. It was, What did I say?

1:24:21 A titillating. Yeah, very titillating. She said. I said, I've never had that word describe it. Used to describe me. I love it, but. And it was it was like minded individuals with all their differing opinions. Yeah. So it's that's what I appreciated about it. Like, we're all pretty sound mind. Yeah. You know, we're also, as sound as your mind could be in 2022, right?

1:24:48 But, you know, we all have to think logically, think logically defensible opinions. You know, we can comprehend what we see and hear and read fairly well. So it's, it's nice to have a conversation with to educated people. And I'm sure you guys. Oh, yeah. Any. That's awesome. It's awesome to have you on it. Yes, please.

1:25:07 And thank you. Yeah. Thank you for letting me invite myself. I appreciate it. All right. Now the group hug is done. Listen. Keep talking. So just love you. Like having your own haunt. You did? Yep yep yep yep yep. It was just like, you know, it cradled the ball. It's like it's turn red. It's not how hot it is.

1:25:26 No, this is how you are. So, and that's that's like my M.O.. Red cheeks, rosy cheeks. Hilton blush. Nice. So, this this whole Coney Barrett and Kavanaugh, right? This whole this whole thing of, like, stacking the courts and whatnot. I don't know how that's even legal in a two party system like we have. How would you be what?

1:25:47 Why? Why are the Supreme Court justices, not three Democrats, three Republicans and an independent? Like, why? Well, right. It would be. It really just makes sense. That would be insane that anybody is able to stack the court one side or the other when the country is not one side or the other. Yeah. And it just makes sense to you.

1:26:06 You have more red states, but technically the population is more blue leaning than red because it's higher populations. New York City, California, the country, the states that are more left leaning have much higher populations then Nebraska. Right, Oklahoma. I can hold the country. Right. So it's if you were to make a master playbook, if you were to mastermind this thing, right, what better system would you would you have than a than a paid for two party system.

1:26:32 Where the you know, industrial complexes can basically pay for those two parties. Right. So the RNC and the DNC are 100% bought and sold and paid for by these different industrial complexes, mostly military industrial complex. Right. And so what you do then is you keep this conflict of lack of lack of a progressive center. You keep the polarization happening, you keep it divide and conquer.

1:26:55 So basically here's, here's a new entity, here's a new, person coming into the, into the population. Okay. That was born because, was born because the mom couldn't have an abortion. Right? So boom, you have this new citizen. Yeah. Now the citizen is going is going to most likely be funneled into one of these, one of these groups, one of one of these, one of the two broad bucket, right.

1:27:18 One of the two broad buckets for politics. They have it. Right. And so really those two buckets are just one in the same old. And they started teaching me about politics when I was in second grade. You're following the Bill Clinton election and all that stuff. So yeah, it started me out. Yeah, yeah. So when you start to try to indoctrinate you quick so so you look over the trend line of like, we're we're moving as a nation when the Republicans are in power and Democrats in power.

1:27:41 And what you'll find out is just more of the same. More of the same, more the same, more of the for the stalemate for the foreign wars continue. Right. The separation of wealth between the ultra wealthy and everybody else, no matter your friends, no matter runs the house, no matter. Yeah. Meet the Obamas or meet the Dubai.

1:27:58 Same as your boss. Like, I'm not going to lie, when, you know, we did have when the the left did have the, House majority for their for a short time. Yeah. I was like, oh they're right. You know it was it. Why were you like that? I don't know, because now I don't know because I'm, I'm like.

1:28:15 I was visibly relieved in a way, because I was at I was like, at least there's some people in there who might slightly care about my rights. Like, you know, you got you got big A, you got good old Bernie. I don't care who you are, that man. You want him to be your uncle who brings you like you got AOC in there?

1:28:34 Who? I like her, I love her, and I hope one day she's president. I don't know if I'll see that in my life. Okay? And Bernie is wrong. A whole bunch of times, and so is AOC. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, 100%. I lean more Democrat because I line up more with the Democratic platform ideology. But in the last five, ten years, I've shifted way of far further away from them because of the fact that they're in the same pocket as everybody else.

1:28:57 Not that I've, like, seen the light or anything, but I just think the data and the evidence and everything else suggests there's just a kleptocracy series of industrial complexes that we then get grouped into. It's only a matter of time before the ones who aren't bought and paid for are. Yes, but I feel like some of the people who are out there are trying to create change and churn.

1:29:15 Right. And I, I definitely that's so that's the sell, That's just the sell. Well, I think it's you in the door. That's the foot in the door technique. What I, what I think I like most about, like and like you said, like, why was I excited about that? And I think it was just because after the last few years, I was like, Jesus, thank you.

1:29:33 Like, it was more of just like a, like an imaginary relief, like, like, but Biden wasn't elected, right? He was just the person that was there that wasn't Trump. Right. Exactly. Fucking ham sandwich would have be Trump. Yeah, well, that's how that's how I voted in the last election. So like and how many election cycles do we have to go through where it's the lesser of evil vote that we're going for, right?

1:29:54 Right. I don't want to go with the lesser of evil. I want to go with the just the better person. And like, I'm going to say the DNC has a problem. I like that referencing, the DNC has a problem giving people candidates that they do want to get behind. They haven't been able to do it for the last few elections.

1:30:13 Give somebody, you know, and it it's almost like, well, we accidentally put forth Obama. Now we don't know what to do. Right. Like, well them throwing Kamala Harris into the vice presidency. That was a that was a how desperate that was. That was a Hail Mary like I am not a Kamala Harris fan. Am I okay with her being the first female vice president?

1:30:34 Yes. I am not mad. I think she was a very good candidate. I don't agree with everything she does, but if she's going to represent the female population as a person, not a bad representative. I'm not mad. Better than Hillary being the first president. They put Kamala Harris up. If she's the anointed one for the next election cycle, let's just say they put her up as like the DNC.

1:30:54 Like if they if you notice, the DNC basically just picks whoever they want, right? Right. Despite what the people want. Yeah. Which is crazy. That's why they blocked Bernie both Democratic times. Yes. And if Bernie ran as an independent he'd fucking win. Oh yeah. Right. 100% had to wait for him now. Now he's just fucking straight to old.

1:31:11 Let's be honest. I just want to miss my uncle. That's all right. Just want to visit the guy, hang out. But the superstructure, like I said, if you were to architect the master plan, this two party system where you have them both in your pocket, and then the series of industrial complexes, trading a cryptocurrency for government would be your ideal structure, right?

1:31:27 Because what you do is you keep people in this group ism nonsense blocking true middle ground, progressive right for society. You disenfranchize people and you allow them to since they're fighting over this nonsense. Errata. They're not seeing the big picture items that really affect them the most, like the massive separation of wealth. You have it in all of human history right now at this point in time, this moment in history, we're seeing the greatest percentage differential wealth than we've ever seen in we need entire fucking massive redistribution of wealth due back in the feudal times, right?

1:31:59 When a king would just come and say, you know, I want five chickens from that farm, you know, whatever. You know, I want that. I want that girl. So I'm going to there was less of a gap then than there is now. There's a lesson and you could you could storm the Bastille, too. You could storm the castle.

1:32:12 Right. Like I could storm the, you know, storm the capital. Yeah, but it ain't got no shit. You turn the heat on someone hard enough back in the day, and they can come with pitchfork and torch. Yeah, it would be regime change, right? Right. But what I'm saying is that the actual standard, the standards by which that king.

1:32:27 Right. The lived was, was way more consistent with the way the peasant lived than by today's standards. Yeah. Lived in a drafty castle. They lived in a drafty hut. The janitor, the janitor. And the CEO is just as well just. Yeah, the janitor and the CEO were far more evenly matched back then. Damn right. Right. There we go.

1:32:48 Now, I like a difference between eating and not. That's why I like Costco. The guy only pays himself ten times. What is the most high who comes to the employees thing? Like if there was. If there was famine and, you know, Renaissance times that affected every single person? Yeah. Nobody had pigs. It would not do that now. That's right.

1:33:03 So now you're right. With this incredible separation of wealth, what we're doing in technology is amplified. That right. Technology as a, as a in my opinion has been a net force for positive change. Right. True. But what also has come out of this is this ability to create this separation of wealth that's unprecedented. They have the richest nation in the in all of history it's ever been conceived.

1:33:25 You have the greatest productivity of all time due to mechanization and automation. If the greatest productivity of human beings I've ever seen. But yeah, we also have the highest incarcerated per capita. That's great country. Right now, these industrial complexes have come in and contaminated the government structure. And these two party system, like I said, if you were an architect, if you couldn't get oil drugs and oil drugs and what did you say earlier.

1:33:50 Controls it. Oh I said consumerism religion and drugs. Yeah. Well is a good example. We all come from consumerism. Yeah. You can really take anything and put it through those channels and then see how the constructed forces. Right. Take something that could be wonderful and convert it into like just a massive money scheme to, you know, siphon wealth and trickle it down.

1:34:12 Oh, yeah. We were talking about that trickle down economics, you know, Reaganomics. That does not work. The because human nature is to hold and hoard human nature. It doesn't work for the common person. Nope. Right. It works great for people, you know. Right. And that's how the 1% stayed. Yeah, the 1% I think that's it. One. So throw this abortion now into that paradigm.

1:34:39 Throw this now new abortion thing. So you stack the court right. You get this push through. And now what you have is you have this evangelical high Christian population feeling as if they have some kind of momentum. Okay. So now their side is winning now. So what you do is you get the seesaw shit happening. So look at the whole entire history of abortion.

1:34:59 You have this seesaw thing happening with like, different states making different rules and regulations and it goes up to the courts. It's just this constant thing which then people can spend their mental energy on oscillating back and forth. Well they do other thing. No. There we go. Right. They're looking left and we're going right. Exactly. And then what you do is you, the people that are on the one side of the seesaw when they're losing, they then rally right.

1:35:23 And they spend their time, energy, effort, money. Right, right, right through what they believe is, is their party ideology. That's going to then reverse it back the other way, and then all they do is just let it seesaw back the other way and just shit all the same. More of the same shift and keep happening. Well, and instead of a real architect of the ideal system, there you go.

1:35:39 Right. Well, I've said over and over again, Democrats are frankly, little pussies. Like, they're just they're they're not they don't have the ability or the gall to do what needs to be the Republicans in the last few years have. But Republican voters, Republican candidates, they're doing whatever they have to do to get the votes. The people, the gerrymandering gerrymandered, they are doing whatever they have to do to do it.

1:36:06 And Republicans are like, well, we don't, or Democrats are like, we don't like that. Don't you don't do that. And you know what? If my constituents will definitely cancel you? Yeah. And if we don't want if we don't do that, you won't do that, right? Like I'm all about caring about everybody. And like I said, you know, I'm very, very deeply rooted in my morals of making sure that other people are cared for.

1:36:30 I like everybody, too, you know, I love feeding people. That's like, my favorite thing to do is feed people. But I'm also like, hey, guys, let's do we stop fighting each other for a minute because we're, like, canceling each other and because one guy said something when he was 15 and had little to no education about what that thing meant, and we're buying into the distraction instead of educating and empathizing and understanding with people.

1:36:57 We're just going bad. Yep. And we're but our nature is empathize with people, right? Our nature is to cooperate and work together. And so with these systems, I think evolution has just kind of thrown that nature out the window over the past, like I would say 100 years or so. So, so, so there's this superstructure that then gets to this catastrophe, that gets to this, this, this population.

1:37:19 Right. What it inevitably does is it is starts to separate us from our nature. And it goes back to that thing I was talking about. When you're living separate from reality, right, right. You then have this, this energy budget. And so what you do is instead of being taking the time and energy to really rationalize things, what you do is you you to fall back on the simplicity of talking points.

1:37:42 Right? Really simple. Quick. My my part of my Democratic Party has this viewpoint on all these things. That's my viewpoints, right? So now I don't have to think through all I can do is when I, when I go toe to toe with someone, let's say it's the conservative Republicans. You just whip out your ready to use script. Right.

1:37:57 And they're preachy when they're whipping out. They're ready to use talking points back. Right. And now we're just in this loop doing nothing. Well, and that's a progressive and progressive and conservative groups on social media that's literally people literally give each other talking points nonstop. And I'm like, that's not going to solve anything. Yeah, you have to have a genuine conversation about people and their experience.

1:38:20 And I know I've said it before, I feel like it's intellectual. Wanker. Are you talking points don't work when canvasing, talking points don't work when on, cold calling or at call center because you're not going to convince someone with the talking point, right? Talking point is a pre digested ready to go thing. It isn't something you can engage with emotionally, it's something you just use by default as a tool.

1:38:41 Right. And I canvas back in the 2014 North Carolina Senate elections, for Kay Hagan and Planned Parenthood. But and I was one of the I had a team of like 15 people that I took around and we canvass and stuff like that, and we had a script that we were supposed to follow. Every time I would get new people or a new team, I would tell them to ignore that script.

1:39:03 Nice. I would tell them to talk to people. Yeah. And give you, like, why do you feel this way? You know, like, I would get lost in there. Yeah. Right. Yeah, that's probably my fault. But it's all your fault because you went off script. We really got a lot of people. I think if more people took my approach to it, we probably would have had a better time.

1:39:21 I think you're right, because it's about engaging with. And I wouldn't person as an individual and treating them like a human being. Well, and I'd be like, look, if you stopped at a crosswalk, start a conversation with somebody, don't start it off in a political aspect either. Just be like, hey, I'm nuts. These are, you know, what are you doing?

1:39:36 Small talk and then things spin off. If people just actually communicated rather than trying to take their ideologies and shove them down somebody's throat, that would break the system. And so that's what it was allowed. That's right. We got this 100%. That's why you have this group ism. That's why you have the different pundits. That's why you have the media's role.

1:39:54 All this stuff ties them together. Just keep it divide and conquer, you know thing. Oh, Romeo and Juliet is a perfect example of why communication is key in any. Yeah, yeah. Right, right. So so on so many levels there. Right. They managed to overcome the environment and prejudices. They were prejudices they were given. And then at the end, I'm pretty sure it was Cleopatra and her last husband.

1:40:16 There was a there was a lot of miscommunication there. Yeah. You know. Right. So imagine like I'm sitting here I'm actually like I said earlier, I'm a secular humanist, which means I believe in, you know, helping people, people first kind of approach to life. Right. As a life stands firm and then also don't come at it from a I don't come at it from a God perspective.

1:40:33 Right? I take the good without God kind of idea ideology. Right now, if you sit me down with the most extreme evangelical Christian. Right. So we just sit down, okay? We saw the blank sheet of paper and we say, okay, let's talk about just a couple things, right. Let's just start with, people that need food. Okay. Or something simple as that.

1:40:55 Tell me, what if you had someone in your community that that was hungry and let's say their children were as well, their their children were food insecure. And for whatever reason, the husband works, the mom stays at home. They still just can't make ends meet, right? Yeah. They're going through some times and you have knowledge of this family and you know them.

1:41:11 Tell me what you would tell me how you would act. Right. And I can almost guarantee that this evangelical Christian, you know, really extreme religious. If I go buy groceries, I would they would take care of that. They would say, if you just made it simple, you said, would you would you feed them? You know, they would definitely.

1:41:31 I would say 99% of time would say yes. Why does their opinion change? The more people it comes to that? That's what that. Yeah. Like so then you ask me same question. Right. And say absolutely. If I was aware of someone that was food insecure in my community, I would just go to the grocery store. In fact, I would preach a steady stream of food for them.

1:41:50 Right? I was just increase my food budget and make it happen for them, right? Yeah. If I if I was, I would take responsibility. If anybody ever asked me for money on the street, I'm like, I don't have money, but I will buy you food. I told you, I like to feed people. Yeah, it's very, very, very same here.

1:42:03 And you know, the last homeless guy that I had that conversation with, he was like, can you give me some beer or two? I was like, sure. Oh yeah, you know, I bought people beer. I bought people dog food because, you know what? You're homeless. You're down and out. Yeah, I would probably need at least a fifth of Jack.

1:42:17 Right? Like it just to get through it. Fair enough. I'm also probably going to buy drugs with my own money, so. Right. Pair? Yeah, I'm going to some too, but I'm going to help you get it going off the rails or what. I was going for. But I help you see your way to the other side here you podcast name off the rails.

1:42:34 Hahahahaha. You're on to something or off something. I don't know off the rails with went off the rails. So what we find out is and we bring we bring a muslim to the table. We bring a, Buddhist to the table. We bring you know, an atheist. We're bringing in Gnostic. We bring all these people to the same table.

1:42:51 We bring a Scientologist. No. They can't. Sure, everybody cross-section of society. Right. Scientology can come and you find out written on this piece of paper is that predominantly way over when the majority it's like people will come to a consensus that, yes, when people are hungry, we should give them food. Yeah. Food is a dime a dozen in modern economics.

1:43:10 Yeah. You know, we have food busting out to see if they throw most of it away. I mean, with if somebody's saying, what do you do? Right. So your neighbor comes out how it starting with this. So let's start with a simple and build up. Right. So what we do is we see this overwhelming consensus that the ideology of America is that we don't want to see anyone be food insecure or hungry.

1:43:30 And this is real. Now all you have to do, like I said earlier, once you get past one step everything falls apart, right? Because now you get into say okay well how are we going to go about doing that right now. You've introduced the first wrinkle of complexity and that alone you've now cleaved off 75% of the people.

1:43:49 It tells you the political climate who pays for it and how does it get there? Question. And now it's over. Now. Now the people remain hungry. Well, not me, I don't. I'm paying for nobody who just is lazy and sits at home. But you were just talking to me about how you'd have compassion for that neighbor. But now everyone you know see what I'm saying now, after one or even two barriers of complexity in the current political environment, everybody walks away from the table, right?

1:44:11 And they walk away from the table. Disenfranchized no one got with them, but there's still people sitting there going, but and you're still the food insecure people. Can we fix this? Yeah, yeah, there's still and because ultimately nobody got what they wanted. They just gave up. Well, the fact, you know, food deserts in this country even exists where people literally have no access to fresh food.

1:44:30 Yeah. Other than the Dollar General. And, you know, you bring to the table, nobody wants to go into terrible areas on purpose and control prices and product selection, right? I mean, and give you nearly expired food. Yeah, sometimes that is expired. So what's happening is the system at large, right. These industrial complexes, these industrial complexes and this home get longer.

1:44:52 And that is these industrial complexes and the fact that they have this kleptocracy and then you have these people in the political camps in their different ideological camps. Right? What that does is it serves as a as a way to, to, have the actual will of the people, never be served. Right. What will the will of who is serve them?

1:45:11 We really know the ultra wealthy, the kleptocracy, the that's by default what the definition of kleptocracy is a government that works for the ultra, the powerful, the wealthy and the politically connected people and and doesn't work for everybody else. Right. So the nature of the current kleptocracy that we have in government causes the actual will and the and the value system in the heart of the people.

1:45:32 And right where people want to never be able to be entertained because those different factions, those different factions and divisions have people leave the table, usually as soon as you enter in the slightest bit of complexity. So what do we need to do? In my opinion, even though everything we pay into for taxes is already allocated to some of the most ridiculous things you could think of.

1:45:51 Yeah, like cruise missiles. Yeah. Like so we're aggregating all these aggregating for alligator or alligator. We're looking for all these taxes to xyzzy, which are doing absolutely nothing to help you as an individual either way. Right. So like they're feeding some industrial complex. Right. They're, they're leaving potholes all over the roads. They're, you know, they're doing all like public schools are shite.

1:46:15 Like it's they're not actually using the taxes the way they're supposed to be allocated. So if we had somebody who actually said, okay, taxes are for x, y, z, we would still or ABC instead of x, y, z, we would have some semblance of being able to fix these issues. But people automatically go to the not my money.

1:46:35 I'm paying for somebody's life like that's. And it's not even because that's the first level. That's that's invisible. Exactly. And that is. And you take the small percentage of people who are lazy and don't do nothing, and you're like, well, everybody's like that. Yeah. Ain't nobody's trying to work right now is the prevailing, you know, not trying to work for free.

1:46:53 That's it. Nobody's trying to get screwed and kill themselves for a job. People have reached the point where they're like, look, the amount of time, effort, energy and all that that I'm putting into this, I'm not getting it back out. I don't want to do this job for you. Yeah, no, because I need a job, not this job.

1:47:10 People have stopped taking calls on the weekends. People have stopped, you know, they're they're pulling a page from Francis book. They're like, I'm on vacation. Don't talk to me. Yeah. And we could get in. Francis got that four day workweek now right. We couldn't. When all this pressure continues to build right. We could January 6th could just be a walk in the park to what might be coming in our future if we don't start to look at some things differently.

1:47:32 Okay. Like, so let me walk you through a really simple well and it's happened slowly over the probably the last like 4 to 5 decades. I'm sure this is just slowly been edging in this direction. Then Margaret Atwood is seeming like a friggin oracle at this point. I know, Margaret, did you guys see the unreasonable edition of her book?

1:47:50 She it's fantastic. Yes. That's funny. Yes. Right. So she took a blowtorch to that bitch. Her like, you know, you got the three oracles, you got George Orwell, you got Margaret Atwood, and, the other one. I can't think of his name right now. But, you know, you got these authors who are suddenly becoming like, you know.

1:48:12 Yeah. Promises. Thank you. Yes. So look at the, You're right. Military industrial complex is a simple example for tax money that gets, majority of the tax money, it goes to defense. But this is the largest segment of our budget. Budget. Right. So you take the tax money goes to the defense, quote unquote defense, which is another brilliant marketing term.

1:48:30 Oh yes. So yeah, they're so good at what it does I want their marketing teams information game. So through these government podcasts we go through the roof right through these defense contracts. You have like Lockheed Martin and all these other companies that, you know, Boeing, Raytheon, all this kind of stuff. They're making tremendous money, tremendous money. I mean, my gosh, it's like bursting at the seams money and developing weapons systems and developing the, the, the, you know, the capabilities of our military.

1:48:56 Right. So what you see is, then they take these arms and a certain amount of them are available for sale. I mean, there's some international market. Oh, you said America is the number one arms dealer in the world, right? And so the profits of those arms sales don't go back into the Treasury. They go to these companies.

1:49:14 Right. And so what you see that's the Nic Cage movie. What's that. Oh Lord of war. Lord of War. There you go. Explains it very well. It does in about five minutes. And then all the wealth that then is generated for these companies creates the influence in government through the corrupt kleptocracy. Like, again, I'm preaching here.

1:49:32 Right. And so you look at them, the net on how that actually serves the bulk of the American people. And it doesn't it just it's just another, another way of entrenching and enriching certain individuals. Right now. You go back to that table, that piece of paper again on the table, and you say, you know, what do people want?

1:49:50 What people want security. They want to have, you know, a country that's protected. We don't want to, you know, be invaded and taken over by a foreign, you know, of course. Right? Right. Okay. Everybody would agree. Everybody would agree with that. Of all the crazy things that can happen in our world right now, that just doesn't seem like the most pressing.

1:50:06 Yeah, yeah. And so then you can get down to the nitty gritty and break down each and one of these industrial complexes and sit down with that sheet of paper with the common group of all walks of life of America. And what you'll see is that predominantly people don't want any of that stuff. So what we need then, what we need then is an actual cultural shift in the country.

1:50:27 Right? It's not going to happen that the the kleptocracy is proven itself to be so entrenched. All it's doing is increasing, magnifying well and anytime people get out of it, they're like, they just they suck you right back in, you know, like, okay, we're going to throw out this new, you know, marketing campaign, right? Boom, here we go.

1:50:43 So really though, how do we and suddenly they think sharks are bad because they eat people, you know. So what I'm trying to say is it's not going to happen through a capitalization effect. It's not going to happen through where people put their money. It's going to happen through where people put their ideology. Yeah. So what we need to do is we need a cultural shift, which then leads to the environmental shift, like leads to the shift in government.

1:51:03 So that leads me to think cultural shift. All right. Or a cultural shift. We have to have a movement. We have to have something that's self-sustaining. We would have to agree on something we would have to agree on something. And how do we facilitate agreement? I think what we all just said is get people in the same room and get them talking and humanizing one another and connecting with each other on a human level, like stupid things like, hey, get the dominatrix and the preacher in the same room and maybe have them paint something and talk to each other.

1:51:33 Well, I think a big thing, you know, in an activity to share and get them talking. Wow. That's where you went that I don't know. No, no, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. None at all. Because like, if you think about it, it's going. So the generation after mine I'm I'm in the millennial generation. So if you take Gen Z they are they're being taught by millennials and Gen Xers right now as their teachers.

1:52:00 The majority of their teachers are going to be millennial or Gen X. Yeah. And a lot of these teachers are assisting them in learning how to talk about not religion because it's public school. Well, now they can hide but politics. So a lot of, the especially the millennial teachers are leaning more into helping children understand how to properly discuss politics.

1:52:26 Because if we can't discuss these things at the table, nothing will get done. True. And I think I think that's going to be a huge thing for the show. Everyone thinks they're nuts and we're screwed, but but that's the way everyone is sort of every generation, right? Is generation would be like, they don't give a shit. They, you know, you come out and you're like, this guy screwed with me.

1:52:50 Made me feel uncomfortable. Yeah. And they come out full protest. They're like, we're leaving school. Get this guy out of here. And they make it happen. Like they don't mess around. I can respect their it's thought to action. There's a difference. Like, hey, we're tired of dying in school. We're out. Like, yeah, protest time. Goodbye. We're done.

1:53:10 Like they are making their own strides far more than my or your generation did. Like it. Yeah, yeah. So I think maybe I'm slightly hopeful. Like, yeah, they do really stupid shit thanks to TikTok. But yeah, it's like I'm truly hopeful for at least the, collaborative compassion of the society because it might get a little better. That's a good one, right?

1:53:37 Collaborative compassion. So what I think the trends are showing is that what we're seeing is a further entrenchment of just photography. I think it's a cut actually 5000 times a day. Sorry. Right. I would be hammered right now if we were playing. Yes, yes. Kleptocracy drinking. You bet. You said we can't drink here. It doesn't mean there's not other options out there.

1:53:57 Right. But anyway, you know, the entrenchment of that, the trend line shows that it that it's magnifying that. Now the people, the ideology what you see my opinion is it is an increase in polarization, increase of these, group ism kind of activities. Right. And less cohesion or consensus. You see more of a polarization, like for example, social media echo chambers, you know, further polarizing people, right?

1:54:22 Right now in that environment, you really have little hopefulness for like and all of a sudden societal, you know, reversion, cultural or cultural shift. It's very, very unlikely because now you have coming up through the center is people being so disenfranchized they just spend all their time watching TikToks. Yeah. Or entertaining themselves or dragging themselves. Right, right. And the entertainment is like dropping a gummy and entertaining themselves for 12 hours mindlessly.

1:54:48 Right now. Fine. Okay. That's what people like to do is what they like to do. But there's a reason why. There's a reason that, yeah.

1:55:00 There wasn't a person all day. Right? I feel personally attacked by this. Got that? Yeah. Okay. Well no no no no, we're literally. Yeah. I was just being sarcastic here and I was about to follow through with the punch, not call with that. Oh, shit. Okay. I'm ready. As you were right here. Right here. So. So if that's if that's where y'all are at.

1:55:23 I don't have a glass jaw. If that's if that's where you're at. Coming at you with the cellphone and not using your full intellect to analyze that situation and improve it, that's on you. Yeah, right. You're right. So but as a society as a whole, right. What we have now is just hyper entertainment, you know, segment of, of sight time where people spend their discretionary time.

1:55:48 Yeah. Becoming the new groundswell. And the reason is because all these issues in the world, climate change and now abortion and all these things are so big on people's minds that they need that mental difference. They need something mentally different to grab on. Oh, these are our new gods. Yeah. This is what we sacrifice our time and energy and effort to.

1:56:08 So a cultural shift has to come, in my opinion, in the form of some type of modeling for what's possible. So, imagine like a community that forms, maybe an incorporated town or something like that. And these people actually change the paradigm on what their what their priorities are. I believe it's pronounced paradigm. Yeah. But I think I'm getting I'm getting, getting ready for.

1:56:33 No, it's paradigm. Just messing with you. There they go. What they there was a commercial game. There was a commercial back in the day where there was being like these. They were being tools in this, you know, like corporate room. And this guy goes and it was a Twix commercial, and they were just trying to get through it.

1:56:54 And this asshole goes change the paradigm. Oh my God. And it's like, oh, you're a guy. Remember that commercial? So we're doing a link section on our website. So like when we reference things like this I'll find the link to it. And it'll be that's going to be on our website. I'll link to all this nonsense right. You can find you can find the link to the family Guy episode with the.

1:57:13 Oh. Oh yeah. That's going to be great. Yeah, that was great. They did several of those. There was the one where like, the multiverse episodes around the multiverse one was great. There's the other one where the Irish, like, we're live in this high technical society, and then they bring out booze, they bring out whiskey and the whole society falls to hell.

1:57:31 And then another cousin I like the one where they, all the white people disappear and all the black people take off their white suits and they're like, we're right. Hubert's in there. I hope they don't find the money. Strapped him out of that jam. They did a one cutscene where that's one thing that has stayed untouched through all the cancel culture and everything like that is family Guy.

1:57:50 You know why? Because they do tasteful satire. They do. And it's not just the first level joke. And they make fun of every. You know, I went to grammar school. This something. What did you. Oh my God, I could just listen to them talk all day. So, they did. Apparently it was a little annoying, but I'm sure he is one of the most annoying people in the entire world.

1:58:08 But I don't think he was that. Oh, no. Oh, I thought, oh, you were. You were annoying. I thought you were saying he was. Yeah. So, they did this other cut scene germane to what we're talking about. It's like these three people, like, in the, kind of toga robe, sandals, that thing sitting there, and he goes, hi.

1:58:24 You know, I, you know, I like you, and I have no reason to hate you. And and they all say no to each other. And then the third one comes in and says, hey, did you all hear about this magic baby in Bethlehem? And they go, oh, these are such. I don't hear about the magic baby. And they'll start stabbing each other.

1:58:41 Yeah. No. That's fantastic. That's one of my favorite. That's. I'm thankful family Guy has remained untouched as well as South Park, because it is some of that terrible humor, satirical, in-your-face comedy that needed me going through all of it. And it makes it makes people think. But it also gives. But it also, like you said, it energizes us.

1:59:01 It keeps us going, but it makes the other people think for anybody else with their trauma, with humor. Hell yeah. We all in that standard. Oh yeah. That's how you get through it, right? So right. Like, you take this idea of, of these people, there's really like a core sentiment of American culture and charity. That's intact and strong.

1:59:18 Right? Like, Americans are very charitable. We care about each other. We're great population. We do have the ability to come together. Yeah, yeah, we've seen it. Yeah. And then yeah, the system that that's that's outlying that governs it, the system that surrounds that, the system that envelops that. Right. Actually, then we are recording this right? Yes. The system that the system that the system that invokes that abstracts and really quickly diffuses all of that positive energy.

1:59:44 Right. And then reverberates back in the people with that negativity, there's a disconnect between their heart and what that what they're living through these different idealized camps. Right. Which then necessitates consumption, more consumerism, because the people then just use that channel as the stress and the emotional release mechanism. Right? Right. And so, like, you have nothing there's no better consumer Mecca than a people that, that are, core dissatisfied because then they're going to use the channel of consumerism to try to fill that void.

2:00:17 And we even acknowledge it with retail therapy, that phrase, oh, 100%. I am so guilty of that. Yeah. Oh, that is one of my advice that puts some salve on your wounds. I'm feeling sad. Let me, let me go. Go on the Amazon. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Get myself a sad day. Sweater. Yeah, I get a sad day sweater or a blanket right now that was purchased on a credit card.

2:00:38 So then that sweater, that $50 really cost you $320 when you get paid off and, you know, you entered this cycle and then, since the since the core sentiment of our cultural ideology is to go back to free will and pin everything on free will, that that people do that to themselves as well. They internalize it all.

2:00:56 They say, I'm not happy because, credit cards. Oh, nice. Most Americans, they don't say it out loud, but they have the emotional sentiment that I'm not happy because of my own choices. Right. And that comes back then into self-esteem. Right? And confidence and shakes us right. But no, it's there's a superstructure in place that that literally is grinding us down.

2:01:18 Right. And it's a, it's a contributing factor. Free will is okay. Let's let let's put free will in play. But then let's also put in play the overarching architecture of the system. Yeah. Grinding people down. Right right right. So so there's shared culpability here. Yes there's personal choice. But then there's on top of this all these bear traps and all these layers from this trifecta.

2:01:39 I said consumerism, drugs and religion that are just waiting right to grab on to you and create that disenfranchisement. Then now turns you into the ultimate consumer, the perfect consumer. And I'm not saying that consumer horror and hell, I'm not saying big brain conspiracy conspiracy theory. I'm not. I'm not saying a conspiracy theory. I'm just saying that's not even a that's not farfetched.

2:02:02 That's like literally what's happening. Yeah. Yeah. I'm saying look at the data. Yeah. Not conspiracy. I'm not saying Jeff Bezos is you know the masterminding thing. That's right. He's got space lasers. You know the Illuminati you know right. You know. No. Yeah. Right. You know Bill gates. But put microchip in the Covid shot. New world order. Yeah.

2:02:20 No new world order. That's another one. Yeah. You don't have to go there. Just look at the data and the structures that people find themselves in. Right. You can start with the information you usually need to answer your questions is usually right in front of you. Yeah. Yeah. You can you can start with the basic premise that where you're at when you're born is the highest predictive index of where you end up in your life, where you will be and then where your children will be.

2:02:43 So I mean, to quote. Well said. Right. Yeah. I mean, you know, where you end up has a lot to do with where you start. Yeah. Now, again, we have an emphasis in this country to really put high emphasis on the outliers. So we always showcase the person that pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps and so that's another when 95% of the country is three bad months away from poverty.

2:03:04 Yes, yes. And you know, it's kind of crazy but highly compensated individuals who are making, you know, even 200,000 or more, 33% of them are living paycheck to paycheck. Yeah. My husband is not not, not impoverished by any means. And yet we are still Jacob Paycheck. Yeah, we're we're a little a little more a little further from paycheck to paycheck than I've been in the past.

2:03:30 You know, we're not going $10 till Friday diet by any means. I don't know how much it, but we're still like, we have our allotted amount for bills, and we're like, we we really don't have much at all left over for something goes over, you know, and we rely on family. Well, and we are lucky enough to, you know, have some semblance of a rainy day fund should we need it.

2:03:52 Good. But like I said, three bad ones away from that being not who you know like that. It won't take long. It's going to take you, what, 30 years to spend $1 billion? It's going to take me 30 minutes to spend half a million, you know, like, yeah, you got a good point. So you got a good point.

2:04:11 Maybe not the best contrast, but back in slave days, a slave. All right, I'm leaving. No, I can go. A slave. Had food, shelter, clothing, water, basic medical care. Because they were. They needed to keep their workers. Right. You wanted to keep on working. That was. That would be bad. Like I had investment. Bad investment. Right. So, you know, you're putting a person in, in, like, the worst despicable condition ever being a slave, of course.

2:04:40 But even in that paradigm there are some guarantees. Now we have now they want a society, now they want us to be modern day slaves with zero guarantees. So yeah. Yeah. No safety net whatsoever. Not even water. Not even clean water. Not even considered an investment right at all. We're considered chattel cattle. That's the contrast I was trying to your draw.

2:05:02 Yeah. Is that the idea then? In the in the most lucrative, productive time and most wealth ever? Yeah, most productivity ever. Your mechanization and technology, right. We have people now not even guaranteed that level of security. Right. Like instead of freezing on bus benches at night, dying. What if your husband gets in a car accident? Exactly. God forbid.

2:05:25 Yeah, right. Head injury. And he's. He can't he can't do what he used to be able to do right now. Maybe some insurance and stuff will kick in. You have some kind of back fall, but that's going to that's going to drain. It's not forever. It's not forever. And now we're yet right. It could be you could be headed towards the fucking poorhouse.

2:05:44 You can because you're out of your life. Your income potential has been slashed and there's no safety net, no social safety net for the basics. One, there's no contract, that there's something. Even if you go as a symbol of term as, like we don't even have to delve into like, what if, you know, what if you died?

2:05:59 What if car crash happened? You can be like, what if you know, his one investment fund tanked? Yeah. Or what if automation continues and his job gets deprecated? Exactly. You know, like he's we all kind of thing like that's. Yeah, it's going to be very soon that they start looking into like not because they already pay you crap and get away with working you all the time by paying you commission.

2:06:21 Right. But, you know, like it's only a matter of time before they figure out how to do that even cheaper. So I think there's some I think there's some clear ways that we could actually, fix the problem. So like, we've outlined a whole bunch of problems now, going back to abortion, you know, how how might this be able to be fixed, like permanently fixed rig?

2:06:36 The system fixed. The universal basic income would have an appreciable effect on every one of these things. We've just mentioned universal child care, universal basic income. Yes. Personal health care. Yeah. Universal child care, basic income. There's a lot of things that you can like, literally pull out and be like, this will literally help everything. Yes, yes, it'll it'll fix it.

2:06:55 Well, it'll help get everything on the right track. But as many people say these days, common sense unfortunately, is not very common anymore. So sort of subvert the the new, the new abortion restrictions. Right. In these different states where people, some people would have to travel hundreds of miles sorry to, to get an abortion. And that's, that's going to be cost prohibitive for many people.

2:07:16 So now these groups are already kind of popping up talking about they'll pay for travel, right. And all these like kind of support systems are starting to, to try to emerging in society to try to offset this. What a lot of people view as a draconian, you know, change to those right. Abortion laws. Well, so there's this idea of taking federal land and putting abortion clinics on federal land within all these states so that people can then go to that, to that federal grant place to have their federal abortion rather, that's kind of cool.

2:07:43 I had the idea of why not? Why not open up Indian reservations and sovereign nations that are within here as abortion clinics and pay them handsomely. The government then they put a voucher into the government that pays or, you know, a voucher system. They have, technology. They have. Then we actually have to admit we did things wrong, right?

2:08:00 That one. That's not something people like do that's supposed to have a higher measure of culpability. They have, you know, performed abortions as well. They have like, you know, now, pills that, young enough, early enough on the pregnancy will terminate a. Right. So there's a, you know, mail order perhaps kind of option there. Right. There's well, that's been happening.

2:08:18 That's been happening. Yeah. There's some countermeasures like kind of coming online, the idea of ending the filibuster for this one thing to change in Senate, you know, change the rule to I think it's worth it. You know, I think ending the filibuster should have been done a lot. I mean, they would have gotten a lot more done whenever they had room to do it.

2:08:35 The majority. Yes. You know, in order to like, make that into federal law, what we need to do is, honestly, this is one thing me and my, conservative family member truly agree on. Is, we need to, and it's gone. Yeah. And I mean, it'll come back. It'll come back. You guys keep going. Yeah.

2:08:56 So I'm thinking of like solutions then to the problem. Right. The problem of like people maybe having risky, dangerous abortions, you know, trying to do back alley illegal channels, right. To have their abortion. These different than massive big, big scale solutions to this now problem created by this change. Religious right. It's back. Go ahead. It is. It's, I think one of the biggest issues we have is we had, back in the day, you know, when you had politicians, even presidents, if wasn't their career, they, you know, they were farmers.

2:09:25 They were, members of the like, they were members of the community, and they had actual jobs. This was their their duty as opposed to their career. Right? Today we have career politicians. Yeah, that's a good point being we don't have any term limits. And that's how they ended up buying everything. And we became this kleptocracy. I said, I do, I get something?

2:09:49 Yeah. Have the balloons. Ding ding ding ding ding definitely ends up there. 500 time five. Oh yeah. Yeah. You guys got confetti stuff. This whole thing was just this whole entire thing was just to get you to say that word. This elaborate scheme. Right? Yeah. It was, it was just rolled around on your time, bill. Skydiver coming in with the kleptocracy banner flying and, like, right marching for that airplane.

2:10:14 Yeah. People are parachuting down. There's a guy in a chicken suit, you know, you got an eagle. There's a kleptocracy theme song on an accordion. We brought John Cena in with his pet eagle from peacemaker. Good to see the book. Yeah. Coming again. You you motherfucking money. Oh, divide and conquer. Every fucking American prophecy. Fuck, yeah!

2:10:43 Division is the only way. Yeah. Oh, damn. Consumerism. Your game is true. No, you have to answer to autocracy. Oh, fuck. Yeah. You know what? We just got a hit on her hand. Somebody call, I do. Oh, yeah. Weird al is weird. Al just got a twinkle in his eye. I could have had a career as a as a Weird Al type, because I truly could have.

2:11:10 Yeah, he's pretty good at the songs I make up for my kids. You got real time in the car with kids. Yeah, I'm cracking up. Yeah, you guys are. But if anyone heard it, they wouldn't understand. Is all germane to, like, things, Brian, you know. Yeah. My wife and I have our own language, like, because we can, like, basically refer to things, shared experiences that we've had.

2:11:28 Oh, yeah, that, like, nobody else would know what the fuck we're talking about, so we can speak in code. Isn't that like being in ain't good and happy, can you? Right. Like literally having our own language. I think there's a part of it that I. Oh, my husband. Something like the wiggle of my like eyebrow just. Yeah. And he's like an entire paragraph asking me to get it.

2:11:46 And we just do it. Yeah, yeah. You just get the if you can't see. I nodded my head. I forgot there's not a camera. I mean, dude, if we both and we've all been doing that, we've all been kind of, you know, I honestly, I nodding our hair. I was talking just now and I was like, we should really get a camera and just put it on our hands like, no faces.

2:12:07 Nobody's just like from the top watching because all of us are just like, every time we're talking, we're picking up things or talking. We're like all over the table. And it's just so no one is run for their money off of our heads, right? We're just wildly right. And yeah. From earlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's jokes that get missed without some video.

2:12:30 That's correct. Right. That's true. That'd be the one way to do it. And just like we can then just have like a later, a later video of saying, look at these ridiculous things we did with our hands. All right. So I'm back to solutions, right? Yeah. I'll keep us on track. You know, you know, you even though you are.

2:12:50 I know you want to take us off the rails. Off the rails. I'm going to keep us on track. Check me out. Wednesdays at nine.

2:12:57 That's not. That's not a good time. No, it's not just the time. Selection it off. You know, I'm a stay at home mom, so I gotta just do it when I can. There we go. There we go. I will randomly show up. And if you happen to be there, right, right. You can just come to my party a few days earlier, I did this, so it's it's perfectly consistent.

2:13:14 So at least the timing of when this thing happens has to be off the rails as well. So it fits in perfectly. Yeah. So solutions. Right. So like, think about this. What I called earlier, the sacred domain, like, kind of food, clothing, the basic needs of human beings. Including that health care. Right. Education. The things that we said are basics.

2:13:35 Take this industrial complex, take the greed, if you will, and turn it on its head. Make it make the payouts or the incentive locked into the outcomes of these various systems. Right. So like the nutritional disposition of this certain group of people in this area, the industrial, the agro industrial complex that's over that okay gets paid more if they're people in that area are probably properly.

2:14:02 Yeah, yeah. So your food island conversation earlier starts to automatically shift because the actual like nutritional compliment in that person's bloodstream. What's. So Monsanto is setting up, farmers market right. Because that's providing the nutrition for the people. And then these agro industrial complex will have an incentive then to actually market healthy foods and positive, you know, healthy lifestyles and nutrition and nutrition to education.

2:14:28 So what we need to do is turn the greed on its head when you make the payouts, be with the right outcomes for people. Right? See, so like in the medical system, it's like, hey, you can still be greedy, but you can kind of help people while doing right. Yeah, right. So Medicaid pays for outcomes. Right. So the person when you come in with a broken leg right.

2:14:47 They put a cast on it right after a certain amount of time it's healed. Maybe some physical therapy. And there's an outcome. The person's broken leg went from broken to now fully healed right documented. And if it's within this statistical window like statistical like, you know, we would call well healed. Then they get the maximum payout. So the Medicaid or whatever the system is pays to the hospital authority the maximum.

2:15:09 So the question here, is it going to be like, okay, maybe on a corporate citizen sort of basis or like, well, you get your corn subsidy if you meet these metrics or you get this subsidy, all incentive and metrics met up, you know? Right. So like okay, so now they have like the so these start to take care of these basic structures.

2:15:29 Education. Your school gets better funding with better outcomes. Yeah. The better the better the better educated the children. The more funding for the for the for that. And I think you've got to have people continuously looking at the metrics so people aren't gaming the system. Well of course these are the things I have to meet, you know. So right.

2:15:45 And the government becomes, a regulatory body of doing the measurements and that becomes a big function. The government is to properly measure and allocate the awards based on outcomes. So what we do is we instead of incentivizing pure profit, we take this sacred domain and we incentivize outcome for the population. Right. If you had if you have a reduction of food insecurity in this in this region, then the, you know, governing authority there, the whatever the poverty level involved, get higher pay.

2:16:14 This is the feeling I've always had that that's what China does. I don't know, I think to some extent, yes. Yeah. And you know, I kind of admire it in that it does incentivize and drive people, but it also has a dehumanizing component. And so we have to be careful that for sure. So we're talking about incentivizing like where do you put the reward is is very instrumental on behavior and outcome.

2:16:39 So the classic example was that, there were these, captains that were bringing the prisoners from England to Australia, and what they do is a charter boat. They'd get along and everything to, to do it right. They'd load up and say 150 prisoners and they would, they would get paid and they'd bring them to Australia. What was the metric they got paid on?

2:16:58 Well, they had 150 bodies, let's say, on the, on their prison ship. Okay. Yeah. And they would take those 150 people and they'd get a payout certain amount per head. So if anybody survived well no no no no. So like they'd get paid in the port. They get paid in advance because they had to, to supply their ships.

2:17:17 That was the deal. And so what happened was you'd have maybe five people show up, five prisoners show up, and the rest for shark bait, because they wouldn't feed them, they wouldn't take care of them. They went blah, blah, blah, right? Wow. So what they did is they shifted the money to Australia. You got paid by how many people would show up, how many prisoners show up alive?

2:17:33 Yeah. And survive for a month or whatever. So if you get those numbers jumped, all of a sudden 150 people on board and 150 people would get off the boat healthy and ready to go. That goes back to my argument on what you could do, like with irresponsible gun owners. Like if you make these things when it involves money, people comply more.

2:17:52 Yeah, I know that sounds terrible and controlling, but but it's true. It the people will comply and money is and and money incentives don't work for everything, but they work for most things well and right now our money incentives. Yeah. That's why that's why a fine is only illegal if you aren't rich. Like something that requires is illegal.

2:18:11 And it needs to be proportional. It is only bad if you don't have money. It needs to be proportional. It needs to be okay. That that and they do this in some Scandinavian countries if, say that, moving violation is three days of your income, right. You know, as opposed to 35 bucks, right. You know, so by shifting the incentive, what I was talking about, that sacred domain food, clothing, shelter, water, healthcare, etc. you make those, you make those complexes, those industrial complexes be paid for and incentivized by outcome.

2:18:43 Right? So the better the outcome for people, the more those industrial complexes get paid. Right. You see. And so that's how we then create that sacred domain for society. So there's a baseline now when it comes to like consumer driven products like you know you're buying an iPad or a Galaxy right buying. And that's that's free market capitalism.

2:19:02 Extreme. Like we don't care. That's that's the wild West. Yeah. That's that's subject to like whatever the best marketing campaign is. Whatever. Right. But that, that stuff that doesn't affect actual health and wellness. Core core function, human function, human need all that extra stuff. Yeah, it's wild West. It's the trappings of society. And, you know, you can use it as badges of status, whatever.

2:19:25 But, you know, I, I think what I was saying earlier, also, Lindsay, was that, you know, I feel like we almost have a model for how to incentivize and, outcomes and get them from a government by looking at what China does. But we have to be careful to not dehumanize people like they've done and just be stuck on the metrics.

2:19:45 See it. But you can take I don't know. That's what I'll never understand is how people can see so many other developed countries in the world. We literally have beautiful examples of how certain policies that we've talked about. Yes, in this, episode, it just it it can work. Yeah. It can work beautifully. Yeah. You're in there. Can thrive.

2:20:06 Yes. But you're in that small segment of the bell curve. Most Americans, the majority in the middle, like, you know, what's a foreign country, right? Oh, shit. That the Americans are notorious for not having much of a worldview, that culture, culture, cultural shift that we need. We're we're some of the least traveled as far as the industrialized. And that's because the disenfranchized, again, have been kept disenfranchized.

2:20:28 But the marketing team is so good they don't realize the and and we go back to these same people who they're. You said we may have been geographically more than we can chew. That's another point of it. It's it's not as quick to get to another country with a different culture and a different view point. Right as it is, if you're in Europe, which was by and nature by naturally will have different.

2:20:49 Yeah, kind of worldview. Yeah. Like I like the concept of what the United States could be. You know, we could multi have we have incredible potential. We have incredible potential. You know and for these this ability you have one federal government and you have several states. You know these 50 states that have the ability to make their own decisions.

2:21:11 You know within reason. Sure. And that in itself should be a beautiful idea. Like and it was, you know, I mean the people who may have had those ideas might not have been the best people. And the perspective in the perspective grand scheme of things. But yeah, that was really an idea. And we have at certain points thrived as a society.

2:21:31 Yeah. Well I mean you stifle the masses, but these channels that we talked about, you stifle the masses and you make it so simple. Like you say, this person says, yes, universal health care makes total sense. And you get people to think it through. And even the ultra right wing, you know, Christian Invincible says, yeah, absolutely. It's a great thing is they need it, right?

2:21:50 Evangelicals are poor as hell by default. They need it. Red states have the, you know, the lowest physics, the highest statistics for teen pregnancies. There we go. But then the way you get them to the way you get them to vote or stand up against themselves, even if they say, oh, well, illegal might be getting that same health care and they're like, oh, hell no, no, cancel.

2:22:09 Yeah. I'm saying, I'm saying we'd rather nobody get it than that they're Mexican, get it right. And so that's exactly how that, that kind of ideological am to be around illegal though I maybe. Okay. There's no it can't be, Frenchmen. So that's where we need to find a way to break the stranglehold. If you want the grip.

2:22:27 Right on these ideological camps. And to me, the answer is to, for me, it was an independent, completely abandoned party. I'm not a Democrat. I'm not a Republican, 100% not affiliated with a party. Have you seen Designated Survivor? I have no, no. Okay. No, it's exactly that. And it it was beautiful. Really? Yeah. And so there's a there's an energy budget that I now need to spend my, my speaking points aren't automatically made for me.

2:22:54 Yeah. Right. Yeah. And now I have to commit the energy to finding out which myself philosophy is. That's right. Cherry picking that what you feel is good and right and then taking even. The harder thing is to advocate for it. And then along ties into your, you know, past the buck and and but that's what people do instead, instead of sitting there going, okay, let me think about this.

2:23:18 Or like it's in God's hands, right, right. I have what do you say? Let Jesus take the wheel and you end up in the ditch? Yeah. Because no one's driving, y'all. That's why there's like, there that goes a little deeper. Not just in the ditch, but, that idea, that idea goes a little bit deeper. What that is, is it's a stab at the ideology.

2:23:40 Because what you're saying is that everybody knows, everybody knows everybody. I don't care the most devout Christian. Right. Damn well knows that if they close their eyes and let go of that wheel, what's going to happen? They're going to crash. They know it. But you know what? Their Bible might survive the car. Oh, I bet it will. And they will make that.

2:24:01 They make it fireproof, right? Oh, nice. Burnable Bibles. Dude, maybe we should, do that. Make, we can make our money through people. Make money through buy stocks. We can look at this as a bias. We can supply all these people with everything they need. All right, gentlemen, well, it's leading as this conversation has been. It's 150 degrees outside, and it's fucking 1 to 1 p.m..

2:24:25 Yeah, it's fucking insane. Fantastic. Let's get. We can call that a wrap. All right. Well I again I appreciate it. Well thank you. And I mean obviously we enjoyed the hell out of here. We wouldn't have sat here for 2.5 hours. Right. That was good. I appreciate you like I like I said, letting me in friends and invite myself into, any time.

2:24:43 You're welcome. Was. That was fun.