0:01 There's actually there's actually a little bit of a like a group dynamic thing where like you feel like you're cheating to some extent. You do have podcast somebody and then you bring somebody in. It's like, you know, I don't know, I don't know. Is that cheating? Yeah. Hey, I think it's rounding out the intellectual landscape that we were traversing.

0:17 We're we're expanding things. We're. Well, I really like the subject you guys tackle. Like, it's, um, it's because it's everything. It is, and it's it's completely different perspectives. It's not like one side or the other. It's like you guys have these not even devil's advocates perspectives, but these middle ground perspectives on most things. Yeah. Um, But then on the things you feel strongly about, you're like, no, this is this is definitely happening.

0:45 Like, like people come to blows. It definitely is. You guys coin the positive side of the positively pedestrian. You stay very positive even when you're talking about not very positive stuff. That's very good. So yeah, we've come to terms with through this podcast that we're kind of in a bubble to some extent, and I don't like white privilege or some kind of, you know, it, privilege or something like that, because we both came from like, pretty, you know, meager, humble roots.

1:10 Yeah. For the most part, we really get into that. You'd see that, you know, the stories we tell and the experiences we have, you can see that, like when we were children, we, you know, we kind of humble beginnings. Very humble. Right. You know, and, um, just the smell from Kentucky. Yes. Backwoods. And, um, we've had some really serious life experiences.

1:29 I mean, you know, Sean's had, like, this crazy family event where his mother was murdered. I mean, what percentage of people are in that kind of category? Exactly. That's a whole podcast. I was I was a year plus in active combat when I was in the military. Oh, wow. You know, I ran in Afghanistan, front lines of the second Airborne Division.

1:47 Okay. So. Medic. That's interesting. Wow. You were medic. That had to be intense. Yeah. I mean, so through divorce and stuff like that at point, Sean is, like, married with other people's children, practically, and children. So we both have parenting, you know, and so we have a lot of common overlap. We're both like like, you know, I'm more middle aged.

2:08 Sean's a little younger, but we're both kind of like somewhat right there, settled into it. Careers that are that are good. It is a good, you know, field to be in. So it's not like we're loaded, but we have like you know, we're not comfortable not hungry. Right. You're comfortable in a society where comfort is few and far between.

2:23 Yeah. I haven't seen food insecurity in a long, long time. Right. Yeah. And and I mean, if we want to go do something stupid and, you know, go to a bar and get drunk all night, we can afford it. Right. That's that's for the first time in my life. I noticed recently that, like, I can actually go to the grocery store and not be concerned with what I'm buying.

2:42 Like, I know Ramon's not the only choice, right? I can just go in and be like, I need a, B, C, d, and you don't have to compare the brands. You don't have to do it. I can just buy what I need and like. It really shocked me one day when I was just like, I don't, I don't have to check my bank account to go to McDonald's.

2:58 That's so, but still probably don't. First thing you do is roll up to the lobster tank and select the last one. Right. Exactly. I still do, I still have it. I still have it. Aldi. You know, I keep it as cheap as Bob. Like you're not squandering your resources, but you're managing them well. But it was it was a happy, a happy day when I noticed I was like, oh, that guy's on you, dude.

3:18 No, I don't care. No, I'm only slightly poor now. I'm middle class for now. Exactly. You guys have land in a home and a fire pit. A fire pit? That's the. That's the home. That is my. That is my measure of success, y'all. It's been brought up in the conversation twice when you got the fire pit, right. See, for me, when I was growing up, five milestone me when I was growing up, it was always like go to friends houses.

3:42 And if they had a piano, I thought they were rich. Yes. Yeah, like a real piano. Not a keyboard. Like a piano. Yeah. My grandparents had. And now I have a piano. I can tell you it does not mean. That doesn't mean that it is not tuned. So they have a tuned piano. I mean, yes, one that gets regularly serviced.

4:00 Oh, excuse my law and order. That's the hallmark in Vienna. In a fire pit. Yep. I've. I've arrived. My grandparents had an electronic organ. It was pretty fun. So you've been through just a just to add to what I was saying, you've been through that Covid experience like, you know, near death. And I mean, come on. And Lindsay's been upwards and backwards and I know for a fact on like bad luck follows this man.

4:26 How many times were you robbed in Pineville? Like four. It's funny. At gunpoint. KnifePoint pipe point. Yeah. The pipe point was hilarious. Remember specifically the one story where he had no money? Like, we we were all poor about. Yeah, totally. And when rent was only 500 bucks a month. Right. And he literally just started, like, making it rain receipts at the guy, cause I was like, I don't have any money, man.

4:53 What do you want? And the guys, like, holding a knife, and he's just here. Just take it. The guy gives him money, right? He's like, oh, shit. Dude, I feel bad for him. Here's half of what I got off the other guy, right? Right.

5:08 One time I, uh, there was this guy who used to hang out at all, right? Remember, we had to walk behind the apartment complex by the fences, through the woods to get to the gas stations? Yes. Right. Well, so I'm walking through there, and it's always kind of sketchy by those woods. Well, some dude jumps out and, like, tries to rob me.

5:27 I was I was high as hell. I just started talking to him about how I'm like, man, look, I don't have any cash, you know? But, you know, we start talking and bantering and going back and forth. I'm making him laugh. He he puts him away and we go get a beer. He buys me a beer, I swear to God.

5:46 No way. What are the odds of that? But I want everyone else who robbed me, robbed me successfully. And including an Asian man with a pipe. You know, the guy buys you a beer and then, like, in the parking lot, he's about. He goes to fist bump, and he bought a gun on him. Joe. Oh, give me the wallet, bitch.

6:06 Yeah, that'll give me everything you got. Somebody called Netflix movie? Yep. It's a movie. That's it. Just the whole movie. Is the guy getting robbed better than most? Most Netflix. And then the end. It ends with the other guy. Robin. Him. It's got a tighter plot than every Netflix movie ever night. Tomlin out in myself. Right.

6:27 So somebody calls a Stranger Things guys. Yeah. Some bald headed girl in the woods screaming and then for no reason. Like we don't know why being screams yeah you know oh Wilhelm scream. The winds are always skinwalkers. So that's. Yeah. You never investigate the screams in the woods? No. So are you in the same category, Lindsay? With your past?

6:50 With my past? Oh, yeah, 100%. Yeah. No, I know how you say that word to me. It's tumultuous. My young life was filled with a living in the hood and Danbury, Connecticut. And moving from house to house because we rented and, you know, my parents, my dad was a truck driver. My mom stay at home. Really? I'm from Denver.

7:09 That's. That's crazy. Shut the front door. I saw a family in New Milford. That's so, um, Danbury Fair Mall. Actually, I was, like, going to the Danbury Fair before it was the mall, right? Watching the dirt track. So my grandpa used to my my poppy used to run the carousel there for, like, ten, 15 years. There you go.

7:25 Yeah, that's that's good, that's good. Um, It's weird though, New Milford, isn't it? Did you live there when they did Mr. Deeds in New Milford? I'm not sure. Um, They they filmed the movie with Adam Sandler. Movie Mr. Deeds. Well, I don't know. I don't remember when it was there and if I was there at that time, it was 99, 2000.

7:44 Somewhere on that time. Yeah, I think I was already down south. Yeah. We got here about 2001. We, we came here right after September 11th.

7:53 Not on purpose, but okay. Just military after September 11th. Okay. As in from 2002 to 2006. Yeah. That's crazy. But yeah. So yeah, we grew up with Danbury is a pretty pretty I don't know what it is like these days, but it was not the best area. Uh, It's it's tired and kind of played out at this point.

8:13 Is it. Yeah. I mean, there's there's been quite a bit of an exodus, you know, I imagine from the north down south, a lot of people have moved. Right. Oh, yeah. So brain drain money. Yeah. It looks it looks a little bit rundown now. Like things are not, as you know, like you come to a city that's growing and everything seems like it's in a good state of repair because, you know, it just kind of outgrows, you know, it's.

8:33 Everything's new in Charlotte. Yeah. It's like you have these, like, rings, you know, of development and then the gentrification follows, right. And so then things since they just skip Danbury, they were like, no. Yeah. Well the opposite is happening there now. Has those rings of collapse right where you know people leaving action contracting. Yeah. And then, you know, empty lots and resources just this like northern tired feeling because it's harder to maintain everything up there because everything move so fast.

9:00 The weather the the money. Yeah, yeah. Although I might have to make a trek back up north soon if things keep going the way they're going. I mean, really, the South is not a good spot for liberal atheists. No, the North is like. I mean, at least there's a Carolina haven, North Carolina. But I live in South Carolina now, so.

9:19 But yeah, okay. The North is a haven of, you know, sensible ideology. Well, you know, it's honestly a haven of people who at least keep their shitty opinions to themselves. A lot of them. There we go. So, I mean, because there is plenty of racist people and assholes out there, but they don't feel as safe. It's good to be.

9:39 It's not as normal about it. It's not as like you can't just be as open about being an asshole, right? I was I was in New York on a on a bus and, um, New York City on a bus. And there was this guy, like, basically in Paris, Speedos, you know, like, like drawn out smeared makeup. Mhm. Right.

9:57 Screaming at somebody else. And everyone's just riding the bus like nothing's going on. You know, and I was like, this is, this is where I need to be, right? Like I love this. Don't give a fuck you know mentality. Yeah. New Yorkers just don't care. They don't get especially in the city. They don't give a fuck. Now you go to upstate because I lived in upstate for years and that's a whole different.

10:17 Um, So we lived I lived in Orange County. We lived in Putnam County, not like Canadian upstate, but, um, probably about an hour or two hours away from the city. Upstate. Yeah. Cool. Um, My grandpa lives in Binghamton. Okay. Okay. Cool. Very nice. Small world. Yeah. It's like parallel, following each other. Always love. I always love meeting somebody from my small neck of the woods.

10:38 That's really cool. But, yeah. No, I, I mean, we've we've all sound like we've had pretty much of the same, like, shit stick deal universe. Totally. Um, Totally. Well, I don't know. I just getting robbed so many times. I mean, you know, you get after a certain number of robberies, it's like, maybe you're kind of maybe you're asking for it.

10:55 So maybe what you were wearing. Isn't that a right? Exactly. Maybe it's what I was wearing. I'm look like I have some money. So isn't that what I used to say? You were an easy target. Yeah, I said I was an easy target. I said that I had this, like, invisible neon sign above me. I'm a goofy ass white boy.

11:11 Please rob me. Right? If you had and people used to go hard, it did. It, it did. I don't know how it is these days. It looks pretty. Pretty upscale now. It does. But it used to be pretty nasty. It was like the city underbelly. It's like where the all the people who served the rich people lived, right?

11:28 So like, I have a bit of a psycho side. So like, yeah, maybe that's like somewhat visible because I know I've been in situations before where I could have been robbed. I've been in situations where I'm like, oh, I don't belong here. Right. Understand that? Yeah. You know, and maybe, I don't know, maybe I just exude this like thing where I might have this edge of, like, don't fuck with me.

11:47 Yeah. This like, yeah, something weird about that guy. Like, maybe right from the ages of, like, 14 to 23, I put myself in so many situations where I should have been died. I should have been. Yeah. Capital R worded I, you know, like I should have bad things should have happened to me. I put myself in the groups you were running with, the people you knew, but that had a lot to do with, you know, the lack of mental health care I had.

12:14 There we go. Borderline personality disorder. When you're a pretty girl is no joke. Yeah, yeah. It impacts your decision making skills a little bit. Mhm. And you know high risk behaviors high risk behaviors contribute. And you know lack of stability. You didn't have anything to fall back on. Well and it was it was especially helpful that nobody everyone just thought I was doing everything for attention.

12:38 I'm like no like. And then I got older I was like, yeah, I actually had a problem. Yeah. Started, you know, using medications, things like that, that actually helped it. Um, And I was like, oh, this is, this is what your brain's supposed to be like. This is what balance feels like. Nice. So my worldview comes from, you know, a secular, humanist kind of perspective, which is like, you know, good without God type mentality, like believing in people.

13:06 Yeah. Um, Not a not a very highly religious person. Same. Don't believe in any of that stuff. Really? No, it honestly frightens me. Organized religion, like, has just lately really started to frighten me. Yes. That's going to tie into our conversation for sure. I mean, we're all on that same page. Organized religion is control, subjugation and manipulation. Elevation scares crap out of me.

13:29 Oh, yeah, the fastest growing megachurch, huh? You're afraid of heights? Oh, megachurch? No, but the megachurch elevation. I know, Pastor Steve. I got it, Pastor Steve. But yes, I am terrified. Nice tie in. Nice fucking good segue. Yeah. So my my worldview is that I believe that human nature actually is, is actually imbued. Like we're slanted towards the goodness.

13:53 Right? Like, we're, um, we have a bias towards cooperation. We have a bias towards empathy. Mhm. We have a bias towards traits that, you know, are constructive, like to work together that help build societies and help flourish human life. Yes. Support and build. We were just talking about that. We were genetically through our nature. Mhm. And so literally in modern society with all the complexities, the way I view most people, obviously there's exceptions to every rule.

14:20 The way I view most people are I have this phrase, I say good people in bad situations. Right. Right. Whether it be relationship situations. Uh, You know, interpersonal relationships, work situations, you know, life circumstance situations. Mhm. You can get with the complexities of society. You can get there's like all these bear traps, right. There's all these traps that you can step into so easily.

14:43 And I think the three prongs are consumerism and all of its ugly heads. Right. Organized religion and all of its ugly heads and drugs and all of its ugly head. Yes, I think I think those three things just have bear traps, mostly all over the place. And we can step into. Well, I think our society, because they have they don't actually do any like investigation into how these things actually affect people.

15:06 Right. Just let it happen and they let it happen. And we have exactly what? Drugs to hurt people. But we're not going to do anything to actually make these things easier. Oh, we love Jesus. But we're not going to actually look at the scientific effect of indoctrination into children. Yeah, yeah. So when these when these things come back, these like I call it the trifecta.

15:26 Right. Consumerism, religion and drugs. Yeah. Right. And they're extremes. When these things get money is centered. Oh, that's right, that's right in the kernel level. Right. Yeah. So with overlaps. But in government, for example, like when you have a consumer without a Venn diagram. Yeah. Yeah. You make a diagram for each individual thing and show how these factors overlap.

15:48 Yeah. And money overlays it all. So in government in modern United States, in modern United States government, we have a series of it's a, you know, which is 100%, you know, for the rich by the rich government, for the rich by the rich and their businesses and their enterprises. Right. So, like big businesses integrated fully into government, both parties are completely paid for by big business.

16:10 Yeah. And so you have the series of industrial complexes. And what that is, is it's consumerism coming through the echelon of government over overshadowing the people. So it's like a bear trap that gets put on you and that's it. Right. Not one that you step in as an individual, but one that society then imposes. Like that's the bear trap you're born in once you enter, like the world.

16:29 Yeah. So then, like, yeah, the constraints you're working within by default. Yeah. So it's the American dream. So being here, you have this religious thread coming out over head through government, right. Creating a bear trap. Now for society, you know, getting to this extreme right. And now, you know, many people. And of course, it's always the poor, you know, which has an overlap, typically with minorities and everything else.

16:53 Minority disenfranchized trans LGBT.

16:57 From, from the first, all these groups that have been marginalized and then new groups that have been created in the last couple of generations that are now being marginalized. Exactly. So you don't need projections on this. We have historic data. How, you know, when different abortion regulations were in place back in the day, how certain groups suffered. So we already know exactly how that history is going to repeat that 100% like that.

17:20 They wanted to roll back the clock 50, nearly 50 years of precedent, nearly, you know, a society that had been built around. Well, I think they're going after people's voting rights 100%. If you take something that is 100% natural in our science filled world today, something we have the capability of doing, and that doesn't actually harm any human life.

17:45 No, no, no living, breathing person is harmed in the making of this abortion. No. And like you. So you take that. And, um. I lost my train of thought. Oh, well, you're talking it from the scientific perspective. You're probably getting to, like, a quickening. Or when does life begin? Type of idea. Right? So, um, somebody else talk for a second, I gotta.

18:09 Okay, so remember where I was? Where you were to me was living, breathing. Person is not being harmed here. We are dealing with a biological process, and we're just choosing to curtail that before it gets dark. Thank you. Yes, thank you, sir, for your assistance. Um, So you take something that's completely normal. Um, Being gay, having an abortion?

18:30 Sure. Um, Being, you know, walking while black. It's completely. These are the vagaries make these things basically illegal. And, you know, these, uh, black people are going to jail because, you know, they resist arrest after being arrested for no reason. And it tells into all the things we were talking about earlier, all the things that have happened in our lives in we've taken, you know, it's it really is.

18:55 We've fallen into some of these traps, into these problems because of lack of support by society. Right. We should be given support to have avoided all of these things. Right. And they've already done it to black and LGBT communities because they've made things like prostitution illegal, which is for a long time, how the LGBT community survived a lot.

19:16 A lot of people survived with prostitution. I didn't know that. Um, It hasn't been that way for a long time, but, um, and then, you know, they made specific things harder for black communities. And now you like loans, have more LGBT and black people in prison systems, in private prison systems than anything else. Um, They outnumber every. They are not the minority in the prison system.

19:42 We'll put it that way. Mhm. And now what you're doing is taking something completely normal and life saving as abortion and making it illegal in, what, 28 states. Yeah. So technology. Right. That takes away 30% of the populations vote. If these people then get prosecuted for their miscarriages, for leaving the state for having a topic pregnancy, and the only way they're going to be able to prosecute these people is if they invade privacy.

20:10 Exactly. They violate every law ever made. Yes. And so there we go. It's just a way to chip away, claw back some of the progress, some of the rights we think we have and the people we have, the people it's going to affect the most are going to be the people who are going to vote against the people who are making these things possible.

20:32 Yeah. So because they're not stupid, they're incredibly smart and they're crazy like foxes. They know exactly all these people know exactly what they're doing because these voters, um, these hard, hard, right, alt right, whatever people, they show up. Yeah, they're they show up and a lot of them are single voter issues as well. Like, so the abortion will bring the abortion kind of argument will bring them to the polls.

20:52 Right. The politicians can really rely on that as a way to get they hear guns, Jesus and babies, and they're out there. They're out there in droves. Fetuses, right. Not babies they don't care about. The baby is born. Yeah. No one cares. Yep. No. And, um, America. Where? So you can be born only to die in elementary school.

21:13 All this coming. I kind of saw this kind of rollback of Roe coming because of just. Oh, we all did, you know, talking about it and with a lot of people. And so you have this like first of all the pro-life people have the right have the better slogan. Right. So like pro-life, just like, how can you be against that?

21:30 Life begins at conception. Yeah. Well, how can you say I'm not pro-life? Like how? You know, like like for life? Because immediately. Yeah. Yeah, it's like protest, pro-life protest. Right? But we can just do what they did with Black Lives Matter and All Lives Matter. We can be like, well, we're pro-life of people who are actually living and breathing.

21:50 There we go. So, I mean, technically, pro-choice people are more pro-life. Yeah, than the initial pro-life crowd, but they just got the good name about that. So, like, if you if you were to take pro-life, not just as a 1 to 1 synonym for anti-abortion. That's right. That's what it means in our current vernacular, right? Correct. Right. Now, when someone says pro-life, that means I'm anti-abortion.

22:11 Right, right. But pro-life sounds so much better. It's so well branded compared to. Yeah, compared to anti-abortion. Right, right. So, like, if someone says, oh, I'm anti-abortion, that sounds like, you know, you're actually against something progressive, but pro-life sounds positive, right? That's why they do the March for life. Are they? So when you think you're donating to, like, the March of Dimes, they're like, no, we just want to screw women.

22:36 Mhm. Yeah. So so pro-life. Oh you got him. So pro-life has a really good marketing value to it. Right. Right. And then the pro-life people have have a greater motivation because not only not only do they see it as like, you know, something that they believe, but they they actually a lot of them actually come from this spiritual perspective.

22:56 Mhm. Like they feel like they're doing God's work. It's been it's been intertwined with the idea of, you know, positively supporting the religion. And so basically they have like the motivation of their, their God behind them. And like the, you know, other side usually has more of like an atheist or a, you know, neutral stance, at least on abortion in that regard.

23:16 And so they don't have that. Why there's not a ton of atheist conservative. And if there is, they hide. Yeah, that is a weird combo, but I bet it exists. Oh no, they do. Just like, uh, Christian liberals. True. There's plenty of, like, practicing Christian liberals that are like, yes, I'm Christian, but I'm not going to force my views on anybody else.

23:36 Right. And that's literally all the only stance everybody ever needs to take. And we'd all be so much happier. But certain religions are predicated on spreading them like Judaism doesn't get started on Judaism doesn't care. Judaism doesn't want you. I need a whole they're good. They're full up on the whole. We got people. Right. But you know, we've got traditional.

23:59 Yes. Jehovah's witnesses. Yes. Traditional Christianity, anything Protestant? They are hungry for some more people, whether you make them, which is the whole abortion thing. Let's make some new ones that are born into this bear trap. Or whether you, uh, get them to come to you because of lack of support in society and feeling like they have nothing else.

24:19 Right. So I'm not a biblical scholar or anything, but from what I understand, what I heard from people that are is that the Bible doesn't say much about abortion and, you know. Yeah. God actually aborted a lot of babies himself. That is true. He. There's several passages in there regarding it, and you can just you can just say the crucifixion of Jesus was just a late term abortion if you want to leave it.

24:41 All right. Yeah. But, um, really interesting. 30 years in late term. Yeah. Um, From what I understand, is, like, the idea is that the breath of life, like you, you're you're alive when you've taken your first breath concept is like, kind of through the Christian ideology, for the most part. And then your death is signified by your last breath.

24:59 So it's like, you know, and from the creationism story, you know, the idea of like this dirt was accumulator clay or mud or whatever. And then breath was breathed into the, the, the creation. Right. And that was how man was made. Right. Well, there's even miscarriages in the Bible. Yeah, there's there's plenty of passages about miscarriages, miscarriage and difficulty in birth.

25:18 You know. Well, and their argument is if you don't want to get pregnant, don't have sex. But the Bible is a perfect example of how that doesn't work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the big center around there thing. The whole virgin birth. Virgin birth, even though it's probably more than met a Roman soldier she really liked and then tried to hide it.

25:38 Yeah. And, well, last night we went into the idea of maybe Mary was an hermaphrodite, and, you know, a bit of that is always a little, you know, she was able to impregnate herself through a little diddle in one night, a little a little diddle, diddle diddle. She's got a lock of the Roman soldiers hair. And he's got like some of the plume from the, you know, she's got that hidden in the closet.

26:02 Well, to the back of the door. That's not I was saying, I was saying Joseph was a cover. Joseph. Joseph was a cook. Yeah. You know, he just liked watching Roman. Yeah, he liked watching the Roman soldiers do it. Take her on the field. Oh.

26:17 Damn. He's wearing the helmet, watching. But that's that's one of their biggest arguments is, you know, that's where you don't have to if you don't want to get pregnant. No. We are humans. Yes. Animals have sex for fun all the time. Yeah, but not we are really just a different. What do you mean? Why can't we do what we do?

26:36 But why do we have to be controllers around not having the things around necessary? Yeah, and it's not even like. Yeah, if somebody wants to have sex 30 times unprotected and go get an abortion four times. That's none of our business like it, doesn't to that. But I'm not. You don't have to be an advocate of it. But the beautiful thing is choice.

26:56 Nobody's business. And I. I fully support someone making that decision for themselves. If I'm involved in a relationship, I'm going to do everything I can to not have an abortion happen. Right. But and that is that is the beautiful thing that is the majority of women. That is how they think. No woman wants to get an abortion. Right.

27:17 There is, I think statistically it was .00 3% of women have multiple abortions because they weren't doing things responsibly. Yeah. So if they, you know, have it as a form of birth control, which it is a form of birth control. Let's be clear about that. But if they use it as like a physical form of birth control, they're like they're like, screw it, I can have sex and just go get an abortion.

27:40 I think that files into that category, and they have a concerted network of people that, you know, care about them, right, that they would probably start talking to them about lifestyle and mental health. Right. Point if someone's like, well, and that's such a small percentage, it's it's up there. The percentage of that is the up there with the percentage of immigrants that commit crimes like it's .00 3%.

28:02 Yeah. And it's negligible. It more is they're using that argument really. And it's hitting it's hitting with the it resonates with people even though the most of the time people get abortions, they might have 1 or 2, but it's because, you know, they they made a mistake. And humans, they make mistakes or they had a topic. And the thing is, their Bible speaks about that.

28:24 Right? I have to go with that. We are gaffe and mistake, ribbon ridden. And you had a miscarriage, right? You know, I had two miscarriages and literally every doctor, every OBGYN will tell you 90% of the reason. You will have no idea why you had a miscarriage. There is no feasible way to tell you why that happened. No, we don't know unless you openly like that kicked in the horse by a kicked in the stomach by a donkey.

28:52 You know, like there's no way to tell. Right. That's a that's a different that's a that's a no brainer. Well we can. Yeah. Donkey shows at a donkey. No no no no I wasn't thinking in that direction but that.

29:07 But you have so like broadening my vision there. But so if I wasn't able to get the pills I needed because my body wasn't expelling it on its own, I had to either have a physical abortion. Yeah. Or I had to get the pill to help my the abortion pill to help my body expel it. Luckily, I was able to just expel with the pill and I didn't have to go get the procedure, anything like that.

29:34 And because I wanted a baby, if it's up. It's that whole. That whole process sucked. I don't recommend now if I don't want a baby, it probably still would have sucked, because let me tell you the amount of pain. And just like your head is going a mile a minute and I can tell you for the majority of women, men a lot of times, no offense to you guys or to lump you into that, but men, a lot of time call it the easy way out.

29:57 I have heard that so many times, especially easy way out. Yes. Okay. And it is far. I don't think it would be. It's okay. It's physical damage, physical pain. The easy way out would be leaving the kid after its bought and like yeah people do. Way out would be you know doing a private adoption or something like that, not doing a stillborn abortion thing.

30:19 You could have hurt yourself in so many ways. I don't think you can really much money when it comes to children. I don't think you can really. Or pregnancy or birth or any parenthood. I don't think you can use the easy way out. Yeah, I guess there's no I guess there isn't an easy button. You're not just sitting there.

30:34 There's no way to get out of this. It. It's going to be painful, hurtful and costly, right? Yeah. And if it's not those things, I mean, metal coat hangers are harder to find these days. I mean, they are. They definitely are. You gotta you gotta hit the laundromat up. Yeah. You gotta go pay for dry cleaning to get them.

30:51 I mean, I guess it is cheaper than an abortion, so not bad, right? Right. So find your friendly neighborhood. Chinese guys got some. What? There's, like, some people now have in-home ultrasound machines. Yeah. Seen this. Like, they're pretty awesome. Some people that, you know have had children have some money. They they buy it in, you know, to get as many ultrasounds as they want.

31:14 And well, they're like basically iPhones with a wand. Now that's crazy. They're pretty cool. These portable. Oh, so you can imagine, like some back alley abortionist, you know, having access to this technology. Well, you already have back alley ultrasound places like you can get an ultrasound because American Healthcare, right. Um, You know, people who don't have health care because you can't get that's another argument.

31:36 You cannot get Medicaid or apply for any assistance with insurance until you have the baby. Wow. So if I don't have insurance, it's not considered a major life event until I'm pregnant. So I get no help throughout that whole pregnancy from anybody, from Medicaid, from anybody. So there's no safety net. So because they don't consider it life. Wow.

32:01 Well, what I would love to see is that so the insurance companies are united with science on that. Yeah. Wow. And it will forever be that way because it would cost them more money. Way more money. So I'd really like to see that transition. So if we have this, if we have in some states this like really strong cultural shift to like, you know, banning abortions to some degree, putting all these restrictions whatnot.

32:21 And then this like pro-life kind of encompassing instead of it just make instead of pro-life just being a synonym for anti-abortion. If pro-life could actually become a life stance, right, I would be full people and be yeah, it would be a lot more on board with it. Now. I wouldn't want some of the really extreme abortion restrictions, right?

32:37 Of course. You know, like after 15 weeks, I think it's something like an international standard is kind of recognizing something like that, right? Somewhere in that window. Unless it's life saving. Yeah. With the exceptions with the but, you know, rational exceptions. Right. Very rational exceptions. But but when you take this idea of like a life stance, if you will, of a pro-life life stance, if, um, that that community, that the religious community, if, if they were able to take that same influence and power, they had to overturn Roe, like through, you know, stacking the courts and everything that happened.

33:08 Right? You guys know he'd been been there. He saw it happen. If they took that, if they took that and expanded the pro-life ideology, right, and started becoming anti-war and started becoming about, you know, mental health, mental health, mental health, social programs, universal health care, including mental health, right. Access to, you know, everything, everything. That's so, you know, right now in that same kind of Christian.

33:34 Absolutely. Like all the, you know, head start and all that kind of stuff, everything that like really did propagate life. Right, right. Mhm. And um, the sanctity of it and all that kind of stuff. They will never do that. No. Yeah. Because socialism has been created into such a dirty word. Right. It has to work. It's been overloaded.

33:50 Overloaded. So the problem is, is this winner take all parody of party, right. So like in the Republican Party, if you're a Christian, conservative or whatever Republican, you then absorb that full buffet of ideology, right? That group think in the same way that I will say that the party system has made the tent really big. Yeah. And unfortunately, it unfortunately prevents locks in on both sides to progressive thought and ideology because, like, listen, if I was sitting here talking with two Christian conservatives, we could probably meet in the middle a lot on a lot of issues that are just human issues.

34:27 Right? Right. Like, like we're just talking about health care, you know, quality. You know, I call it I call it, um, like, you have these different I call it like the sacred domain. Right. So if you imagine, like socialism, for the things that are sacred for, for, for humanity and for life, right? Food, shelter, food, shelter, qualification. Right.

34:46 Health care. Just your basic hierarchy of let's let's person live, right? You're born and give this person a chance to live. Yeah. You're born into this country because your mother wasn't allowed to have an abortion right now. It doesn't matter. Your food, clothing, shelter, water, it's all education is. Health care is all secure. Right? And so we are then having the sanctity of life, this life stance of pro-life.

35:10 Right. Well, I bet you setting this person up for a lifetime of success, the safety social safety net is sacred and it's intact. Right? So I think that when you really get down to nuts and bolts with pretty much any person in America, they would agree with that. Mhm. But see, what's happened is that bastardization of consumerism coming through.

35:26 Our government has created all these things into industrial complexes. Our food system is contaminated. It's an industrial complex. It's the agro industrial complex. Our healthcare has been contaminated. It's a health industrial complex, our warfare. It's a military industrial complex where the number one, you know, seller of arms around the world, the United States. Yes. Everything that's been privatized space, all these layers of digital complexes have eroded that sacred domain.

35:50 Yeah, right. And that sacred domain is where I'm putting an umbrella around term saying pro-life. Yeah. Now I can get on board with that. So if someone says, okay, well, we're going to cut abortion off at 15 weeks because, you know, you have like, unless you're going to die or you've been, you know, and incest you with situation, you know, like there's no nervous system, there's no brainstem, there's no heartbeat.

36:10 There's you know, whatever. Well, even at 15 weeks with a heartbeat, they don't actually have a no. Yeah, yeah. No. There's a series of cells that are there is a it's a spasm. Yeah. Yes yes, yes. There's no nervous system. There's barely any wrong. That heartbeat when you are wanting a baby is a beautiful it is a beautiful sound.

36:28 But let's be real. It's not everybody feels that way. It's a collection of stem cells at that point, barely differentiated stem cells. So some people, the sound is the end of their damn life like that. Yeah. So it's interesting. You might have seen these billboards of like, you know, the embryo, you know. Well, it's actually a dolphin I saw, I saw years ago.

36:48 I forgot so much commonality in the development between it seemed like in a discovery place. I mean, this is way back in the day. I actually saw, like an illustration that showed with real scale, the size scale from pregnancy all the way up to, like, birth. Yeah, I actually saw somewhere it was like it, you know, they did that body farm, you know, thing.

37:09 Yeah. Body Works where they showed the people like they had the, the cadavers. Yeah. So you got to see that I did that. It was fantastic. It was like that. It was like that. But it wasn't humans. It was like illustrations and it showed the relative size. Mhm. Right. And when I saw that I was like my gosh it's nothing.

37:26 Exactly. You know it's like it's like a little. Yeah. You know and it's like it's like the tip of my finger. You hit about 15 weeks. Months. Your finger. Yeah. Until you hit about six months. That's when you really like start to because it's an exponential. Exactly. Most of your growth. That's why the first three months of pregnancy, a lot of people, they don't necessarily stop what they're doing.

37:47 Like, some people still have wine, some people still, you know, okay, dabble in their bad habits or, you know, like and I'm not saying it's the best thing to do but recommend it. No, I don't recommend. But you know, that's why those first three months even your doctor will be like, yeah, I mean, if you eat some cold cuts right now, it's you're going to be the worst.

38:07 Yeah, I think I would love I think I could become a conservative if, if that pro-life stance were actually meant pro-life. Correct. Mhm. Because it was about supporting life sensibly. Because most of the most of the things that I would into that kind of life stance line up perfectly with my ideology. So like, if honestly, Jesus lines up with my ideology, I um, except for the supernatural part, except for the supernatural part and the fact that he doesn't exist, that you know those little things, right?

38:37 Those little things that Santa Claus really lines up with Maya. Right? So but like, if you think about it, like feeding the poor, you know, um, healing the sick. Yeah. Educating, you know, just everything he did that those were actually. And saying you're marginalized, but I care about you, right? Like, you know, helping the disenfranchized like that is my ideology line.

39:00 Very much of what Jesus and I will never understand how followers of Jesus are so against socialism. Yeah, because it is literally just taking things that Jesus did and going, let's make this forever. Yeah, Christianity is is a study in socialism. It's about community support. It's about tolerance. It's about openness. Yeah. So what happens is that what happens is that you're dealing with a bell curve of intelligence always, right.

39:26 Like 50% of people are less than average intelligence. Right. And so it's really easy for these like, um, for most people to grasp, let's say a single, a single level issue. Mhm. So like physically seeing somebody using a food stamp for example, it's like somebody can say, oh that's my tax dollars. Right. And they can physically see somebody.

39:48 Can you hear my eyes rolling. Yeah. Yeah. But but see it's a single layer of, of of rationality. It's a single layer of rationality. One causal link. They only had to do one hop. Correct. Right. Kind of like you're sending a paragraph to somebody and they take one sentence from that paragraph and they're like, why did you say this?

40:06 Yeah. But one data point, I think it all stems from bad reading comprehension. Yeah it does. Majority of people don't read past the headlines. Right. And they're using this like, um, channel through mostly social media. Um, This, this barrage of misinformation where majority of the people, you know, if you say around average intelligence, not even reading past the headlines and then using that to make to to solidify their beliefs, to make arguments of how the world works.

40:33 Yeah. You know, and they're definitely the loudest. They are what is vocal in reality it's the majority. Mhm. And so if you're a person living in one of these 28 states that you referenced, right. And you're don't have that ideology like you're, you know, believe that abortion is fine and blah blah blah. You're, you're, you're suffering the tyranny of the majority in this case.

40:51 Yep. And that's one of the trappings of a democracy is that you have. And it's kind of why our country is structured way. We have a representative republic rather than just a pure majority rule. Right. Because the tyranny of the majority is a real thing. Right? But I think it's become less democratic and more republic. Yeah. Not democratic at all.

41:10 As I said. Yeah, it's a set of it's a set of, um, can we just, like, make a Republic of Texas and, like, they can do whatever they want? I think, I mean, I think we should shove them all down there and let them do it, see what kind of success they have. The world is the world is working towards a unified religion, like one to much.

41:30 There's too much in one world government. Yeah, well, there's too much real estate in the US. I think we bit off a little more. Yeah. You're like, what was it reminded that 181888 Mexican treaty? I think we should have just left that day. Maybe let them keep the whole bottle. Yeah, let them keep let them keep Mexico instead of going.

41:48 Get out! But wait. Come back. We need you. So you can imagine, like this, this, this, this actual pro-life life stance being integrated into government. Being integrated into society. Can you imagine this? Right, right. And someone like you described has that second abortion right now part. Now don't forget health care. And you know, all these things are including readily accessible, accessible.

42:10 Imagine this, um, having to go in debt and be harmed. Right. And so what happens is after that second abortion, it triggers a certain session, like, like, you know, not not like, you know, force putting someone in prison or anything like this, but it triggers them a referral to a to a specialist mental health specialist in reproduction. Right.

42:29 See what I'm saying? A specialist in reproductive. I completely social work visits where the person says, okay, you know you've had your second abortion. So we have to have this session and they talk through what led to these. Look, I'd even be willing to do that at this point, like, you know, but that's a pro-life stance. It is.

42:45 Yeah. And it's not to, like, penalize the way it would be to talk through why you're having abortion. I think, again, we would need to divorce that on that. Right? I think most of us would, but I think we would need to divorce it of a judgment and implication and judgment here. Right. I was just saying, let's talk through what's leading to all these abortions, right.

43:08 But, you know, the if they wanted to meet us in the middle, they'd probably want to impose a little bit of judgment. But also, at this point, I don't think anybody is willing to meet in the middle. Nobody will ever be willing to meet in the middle for the simple fact that abortion is healthcare. Okay, so then you roll that back and you say, well, because so the insurance companies have a vested interest to campaign against it and lobby against it.

43:27 And they have the money because abortion is health care. It is it is 100% healthcare. More abortions are performed for life saving reasons than any other reason. Wow. And it's. And if that life saving reason is because if this lady brings a baby into the world, it's not going to have a good life. To me, that is a life saving reason.

43:44 I think that is saving a life that is saving the child beyond childbirth system. Extreme traumatic event. So dramatic, so traumatic. I don't know why I did it twice. I love my kids, but I was like, hey, this was terrible. Let me do it again. Um, Because what what gets the whole thing started is, is is fun times.

44:01 Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that's the whole thing, like, such a traumatic experience should be our choice to choose whether or not we do it. It's just as simple as that. Men will never understand because they don't ever have to go through it. We can't. And but they can, like fathers of children, have some semblance of empathy towards it because they watch, you know, their wives spew life into the world, right?

44:24 But I watch people, people get just busted open, right, to deliver a baby. But that's like, that's the thing. Like it's if I have to have, you know, four different abortions, that is that is entirely my right. And nobody else should be able to help, you know, that that, you know, there is on health care and privacy laws.

44:44 Okay. So so why not necessarily in a mandatory session that it becomes available, but make it an option, say, look, you can't talk to these people. Right, right. Yeah. Like well and I think to maybe honestly. So even implementing that would be a bit much because if you have somebody who in that .00 3% of people who get abortions multiple for, you know, ridiculous reasons because they're just being responsible.

45:08 Mhm. Do you really want that person to have a baby. Mhm. Well so if they get 3 to 4 abortions and they're, they're callous about it, they don't want that. Do you really want them having a baby. I'd rather them have all four of those abortions. Good point. That's the 400,000 kids in foster care. Would also someone has enough to say, look, I'm a selfish person.

45:32 I want to do what I want. I want to keep doing drugs or I want to keep adding this lifestyle. There's a shortage of babies. There's a shortage of adoptable Christian babies. Uh, And I guarantee you that has something to do with why they're pushing this, uh, pro-life stance. Dang. And then, I mean, it goes back to their that's how their religion propagates.

45:53 They need some more people. So you can you can see now contamination again coming through the infrastructure of government through like consumerism. Because in in in capitalism you need a growth market. Right. So you always need more population. Everything needs to grow, grow, grow in order for, you know, the that's how we basically measure GDP, right. Is that right on expansion of all these different commercial enterprises.

46:13 And so like, ever increasing population is germane to the health of, of of that type of model. Right. Economic model. You're going to have a product if you have more people generating resources. Yeah. So I believe in I believe in measuring progress in a different way, like changing the changing like not the way GDP is. That's its own measure.

46:30 That's fine. Changing the way that we view our successes in nation. So if it's, you know, comes through these different pillars of success, if we measure the health and wellness of our people, mental and physical, right. Um, Educational attainment, um, different things like enterprise technology growth, you know, these type of metrics. If we look at those type of things, you know, how applied technology.

46:53 Are we applying technology for to sell weapons and warfare? Are we applying technology to to increase the productivity and health and wellness of the world? Yeah, right. Are we are we taking as a nation the spirit of our nation? Are we going to take this pro-life life stance and stamp out poverty in the world because we actually have the power, and I think the lens we need to put it all through whatever we make decisions with this pro-life stance or we're supporting more growth is put it through the lens of choice.

47:18 First. Do not limit the choice of those involved in the program. Open their choice. Make things available like okay, drugs. All right. You're on heroin. We're going to give you clean needles and clean product. You know it's like the Law Enforcement Against Prohibition. Yeah. They they literally just want all drugs legalized. They're like, why are we doing this?

47:39 Why are we doing this? And it's like, you know, we create programs that support these choices, but give people alternatives that are viable, like the industrial complexes are what creates that that system. Right. The prison industrial complex needs the criminalization of drug all drug use because it will tell you making it illegal doesn't stop people from getting them.

48:00 But nobody feels that way about abortion or drugs. Right. Right. And it is. It is 100. When you and limit people's choice, they're going to have an end run around it. There's going to be a shadow economy to support doing whatever you said that people don't need to do. Like I don't think for one second. So why not tax, regulate and put controls around it by making it of it.

48:20 Right. Like and I don't think for one second that stricter gun laws are going to make us like any safer, honestly, because America is just batshit crazy going on its own, on its own, the beat of its own drum right now. But it's it's something to like, I don't know, it's gonna it's gonna make it so that you have actual, like, repercussions for irresponsible gun owners and that that's, that's honestly going to make a huge difference.

48:48 It's not going to stop anything. But if you have like so I know I know somebody who had a gun in their car and they always kept it in their car and it got stolen. Go figure. Cars are really easy to get into and guns are really cool, so let me go steal that. It's also one of the primary things people look for that Rob Holmes right.

49:07 So you would think, well and when they rob cars they check the glove box and under the seat. What are they looking for? Guns, jewelry? Money? Um, Drugs. Yeah. And so, you know, you get people, you know, instead of taking that experience. No. You're good. Sorry. In my car, you're going to end up with is like a pacifier that's eight years old.

49:28 Which of fries? You know, like, yeah, a goldfish, a goldfish and fries. You know what I mean? Like maybe a diaper that I forgot about. Oh, so. So when someone breaks into my car, they're not finding drugs, cash money, you know, anything really good? They're just going to keep pulling out and going. Oh, yeah. I have had my car window broken.

49:47 Training. Disgusting. Sorry. I couldn't resist really stopping for that. No. You're good. No, that is hilarious. Your car window was actually broken into and I had nothing. It was in my my crappy little Kia. And, like, I had a lot of garbage. It's the worst. The worst thing is like, fuck no, I got to pay to get that goddamn window thing right.

50:02 I didn't even the car wasn't even worth that much money. Someone someone gets $1.50 and change, and they break your window, and it's $150, you know? Yes. They did. Right. So my my, this person, I know, they they contact the police, they let them know that their firearm is a registered firearm. They let them know it's stolen. Yeah.

50:21 Do the right thing. Awesome. You would think in that sense you would then go, let me keep my gun inside with me. Let me go buy another gun and put it back in the car. No. Yes. Right. You buy another gun and put it back in the car got robbed again and he got robbed again. So if you put.

50:37 I can guarantee you a lot of people don't do stuff in this country because they don't want to get fine. We don't have money. We don't have money to pay for these things. So I guarantee you, if you at least put some kind of like, hey, dumbass, your gun got stolen not once, but twice, you get a $1,500 fine.

50:55 Like. And if your gun is ever used in a crime, you get fined again. Yeah. I mean, in reality, you could use that as, like, a back channel to providing guns for shady people like you buy the gun, you register it for your friend and breaks in, right? Breaks in, quote unquote steals the gun, and then you file the police report.

51:16 But now your friends got the gun. It's like a back channel way to get a gun, right? No, you had a gun to a criminal. Well, they're always going to have like, he's. Like I said, you can't stop people from getting these things. Just like you can't stop people from getting abortions or right, being in, you know, LGBT relationships or anything.

51:32 Like, you can't stop, stop these things. So why not embrace them as part of human choice, commonsense laws or ordinances or something? Well, something that puts some kind of boundaries around it but doesn't prevent it because it won't affect the responsible people. Yeah, it's not right. So wait a minute. This idea of like, we can't stop it, so why don't we just allow it, you know, within allow and regulate, just like, you know, we can't stop people from driving their cars.

52:00 So let's allow it's the same under registry. You will agree with that until it's something we don't agree with. Like so if we say pedophilia or child porn, you know, whatever. Okay. Now all of a sudden, hold on. Now all of a sudden people start marching to a different time. But these things take away choice, okay. And I think that's what we're predicated upon.

52:17 The. Okay, child porn takes away a child's choice, right? Uh Bc ality. The animal cannot consent to said thing, okay? It's causing harm to that animal. Maybe harm to yourself if you're taking a horse cock in your butthole and. Well, and the pedophile is taking with it, it doesn't give the child a choice, right? The pedophile takes away the child's choice.

52:39 So I'm saying, you know, I'm okay with just about anything, isn't taking away any human life's choice or anyone's right to make another choice, right? You know, my my gay marriage is not taking away anybody else's choice. My my gun, my registered, safe, locked up gun isn't taking away anybody else's choice right now in my. It might one day, but it's not.

53:02 Not until a bullet goes through. Until somebody breaks in my house. Yeah, it's not to face. So. So the idea of, like, so long as something isn't taking away someone else's choices, then that's going to be something that we kind of permissible. I least what I think general framework for the framework personally, I think as a society and a mass majority, we all agree that those aforementioned things are just not good.

53:28 Yeah, the vast majority of people are like, no, well, they they don't fit in the category we were talking about earlier and society building. Right. And I think that does have something to do with we do have a very vaguely moral society. We do we do hold morals. This man can talk about his stance on that a lot.

53:52 And generally atheists tend to have, you know, better and follow their morals a little better, but that's a whole nother. They arrived at those conclusions themselves and their invested in them, not with the threat of heaven or hell. Yeah, right. So it's when you when you take like the shortcut of saying like God, right? You can then say, well, everyone has a conscious conscience and that's I think it's passing the buck.

54:14 Yeah. Everyone has a built in conscience because like, goes to the machine type thing. Right? Right. And that conscience is influenced by the Holy Spirit. Right? By the Holy Ghost in the Holy Spirit orienting human beings to the good. I take the evolutionary approach. I think that humans are successful as a species because we've evolved these traits. Right?

54:30 Right. They're imbued with us through biological evolutionary theory. Right? Right. And so then, like I said earlier, ability to cooperate, work together in groups, these type of things. Right. Um, Have strong empathy, high compassion for each other, like anger, for example. Empathy is the biggest thing. Yeah, you can say and empathy or something like this. Society lacks a lot of.

54:50 Yeah. So comprehend, understand and empathize. We have this emotional brain mostly it's more on emotion and impulse for the most part. Right. And then we have a rational, you know, kind of system on top of that that can regulate. Do we do we do. That's great. I feel like it's gone. We have gray matter in the middle. Your reason and stuff like this.

55:09 Right. And that will can a lot of times override and trump the emotional center of the brain. But it takes conscious effort. Right? Right. So, you know, modern man, this this the fabric of society and the social constructs, everything that that from culture to laws to everything, you know, interpersonal group dynamics. Right. All that stuff in our kind of rough, rational side of the brain is always working.

55:32 That's my right. Oh, wow. That's that's that's all right. So when you when you have a certain, um, like, uh, rail ride and hobo. All right. Uh, The sounds of the city when you have a certain ideology. Okay, that ideology that's rash, that you've rationalized that you that you're then the lens from that you're viewing the world if it's incongruent with with reality.

55:56 Right, right. It takes ever increasing effort to maintain when your rational outlook of the world is is congruent with reality. It's less effort on your part because your emotional center and your rational center are lining up better. So like say like me looking at the world and somebody who is super Christian looking at the world are not going to be the same thing I think they're going to have to do, honestly.

56:19 They have to do more work. Yes. Right. That's what you're saying. They have to do more work so than it necessitates to keep their views. Yeah, where they need them to be in order to maintain that level of religiousness. That's right. And so what happens then is they must be in the world, but not of it right there.

56:35 Their brain then has to take certain shortcuts in other domains, like for example, instead of instead of saying like really trying to rationalize like where did the how did the world come into existence, for example, right? They then just say, oh God made it. Yeah. So now they're relieved of that, of the of the effort to have to contemplate that.

56:52 And it almost seems like it would cause less anxiety, but I think it causes more because then you have this threat that you have to like you all of these things and abide by this. Me, on the other hand, I'm like, all right, I'm going to die one day. I should probably do some stuff. Yeah, I should probably be a nice person.

57:08 Yeah, because it feels better than being an asshole. Exactly. And you know, your list of priorities ends up completely different. Completely. You end up more external, focused than internal when you're managing this inner life of Christianity, and you're also feeling like you have these externalities watching you and bearing down on you and your entire life. You're stuck here, you're swirling around inside.

57:31 It's all internal. And it's a it's a struggle to reach out and help another person because you're dealing with all of this. But whenever you're an atheist and you're free of that burden, you see what's outside. You take what's outside, you bring it in, you understand it. You try to process it, you pursue it well. You ever see it as Seth MacFarlane and Family Guy's version of in one of their multiverse episodes, where Christianity never.

57:55 Religion never. Oh dude, I didn't him and Brian end up there and Brian's like, what is this? And he's like, oh, Brian, this is a multiverse. So that Christianity never existed and they are like a thriving or is it real science? And I'm like, oh, wow, that's. And he's not wrong. He's not wrong. Religion is taking us back over and over and over and over again.

58:17 Dark ages, dark ages. Yeah. But I think a lot of the biggest problem like so in the time that we've all been talking, each time one of us talks like, yeah, we get on different tangents and stuff and talk about different things. But if you're talking about something that you feel like, you know, I'm listening to understand. Yeah, I'm not listening to respond.

58:36 So I'm trying to understand your point and then give you a response or then give you an opinion. Yes. And that doesn't happen. People literally listen to respond. Dang. They listen to your argument and go, no. Or as you're talking, they're already formulating their their response, even though your thought isn't complete well, and it's completely normal to like sit there and think, especially with someone with social anxiety, to think about what you're going to say before you say it.

59:02 But.

59:04 But it's a it's.

59:08 People are just they don't. They'll ask you a question and then immediately respond to your question with their answer instead of listening. And you're going to say yes. They've decided what you're going to say before you say it, and then already develop an opinion without even listening to what you're going to say. Right. So so your local church will give you an ideology that's ready, at the ready to respond to things that pop up in society.

59:34 Right? They give you like a call center, like, yes, Christianity. Thank you for calling Jesus. How can I help you? Right. That's awesome. And then your political party will do the same thing. It'll give you your talking points, you know, down the line of your ideology. Right. And so what that inevitably ends up with at the end of the day is, is is a crippling effect on a progressive society.

59:56 Society can't be as progressive when you have all these groups of what you're affiliated with that have the preset ideologies, right. And a lot of them are really locked in tight. And so the church, going back to the idea, you know, kind of the fundamental ideas is that the brain then is emotionally feeling something different than what the ideology is saying.

1:00:16 So, for example, um, Christians believe that by nature, you know, man is born into sin, for example. Oh yeah. Like man is evil. And without Jesus, you know, you can look at a little baby sinful, look at the babies. And and the neutral stance is like, you know, tabula rasa, you're born clean slate. Right? And then environmental will shape you from there.

1:00:35 And then there's this other ideology that the one that I have is I think that people are born oriented towards the good side. Like like I said several times now. And so, um, what matches up with reality? Well, when you go throughout everyday society emotionally and you're interacting with the world, what you're what you're seeing, if you're being fair, is people in the majority being gracious to one another, holding the doors, not coming over into your lane, you know.

1:01:01 Right. Using a blinker. Yeah. No no no no no. Don't get me wrong, this happens from time to time, right? Yeah, someone left the door. For the most part. There aren't wrecks every five feet. People are staying in their own lane and doing their own thing. Right. Well. And if somebody drops the money, you give it back to them.

1:01:15 Oh, thank you so much. You know, like it's. Yeah, exactly. We are a fairly. So we're not like England by any means. We're not like the polite society of the world. True. But there is societal politeness in there. Yeah. So if you're just an observer of the reality, like try to zoom out and look objectively at what's going on around you, you'll see most things happening in harmony.

1:01:36 Harmony, right? And most people being good to one another on, on the, on the level. Right on in the majority. Right. Well, and if you leave, unfortunately, our society has not been taught to talk about things like religion or politics in an adult way, but progress, if you leave those out of it, you know, living in New York, I need to make my kids friends.

1:01:56 I live, you know, in the country, in South Carolina, and I need to get my kids friends. Well, none of these moms and dads are going to align with anything I believe. Mhm. And but I still I can't penalize my kids for just not knowing. I'm probably not going to get along on like a deep level with these people.

1:02:11 True. But as long as we keep it to, you know, our children day to day things, our lives, it's because you guys are living a life. Yes, we're living a similar life. We are all just like World Cups in a machine. Yeah, but, um, you know, we are all just trying to do our best for ourselves or children or our family members, and I can I can 100% appreciate that everybody is voting not for like, a lot of the right side of the spectrum votes for themselves instead of society as a whole.

1:02:45 Yeah. So it's and it's I don't blame them for voting selfishly. I don't like I said, good people in bad situations. Right. And then I also say commonly people do the best they can with what they have. Mhm. Right. So like most of I believe that most everything is shaped by environmental, you know from I think I'm much more of a deterministic person over a free will person.

1:03:06 I think determinism is tremendous evidence for determinism and very yeah, it's going to affect you more than anything. Now back to this idea of this person with a certain ideology and a certain belief system that's incongruent with their observable reality that they're seeing every day, that they're feeling emotionally. Now, there's now there's a disconnect between their rational way that they view the world.

1:03:28 Right, right. Like their ideology, their philosophy versus then their emotional experience encounters every day. And so when those those get real out of sync right now, there's an energy gap. It takes a lot of energy then to try to explain then why there's that differential. And so the church is right there for you right? Right. Oh it's because they're sinners.

1:03:51 Yeah. The reason you don't feel in sync with these people is because you're you're saved, right? And they're not. They're heathens. Sinners. Right. And so then the church is just ready. The institution the church is just ready to then compartmentalize you even more. And it creates an us versus them situation. Exactly. You become more insular and you become more dependent upon the emotional support of the of said group.

1:04:12 Exactly. And then entrenches the groups and polarizes even more becomes these echo chamber feedback loops. Right. And blocks of progressive society. Right. So party affiliation is terrible. Card carrying church member is terrible. Card carrying atheists actually could be terrible as well, because you're as soon as you adopt the ideology of the group and disconnect yourself from you know that that group is providing all these answers for you.

1:04:37 Mhm. Right. Alleviating the pressure in your mind because now you don't have to think as much. Right, right. So like just, just you would think that would make it easier. But I like I can clearly see how that would be not easier. It, it does in a way like it adds the ignorance makes it easier. That's correct. 100% ignorance is definitely bliss.

1:04:56 Oh yeah, we all know this. Oh yeah, it makes it. I think it also makes it. They have to sit there and like ah. What's the word I'm looking for. They have to like rationalize with themselves why they're doing on a on a regular basis. They actually ignore God is doing this. No, I'm not gonna look at that because God, like, it's almost like it seems like a lot of work.

1:05:18 It is a lot of work. I can say that growing up in the church saying my parents and my grandparents, how much mental gymnastics and emotional gymnastics they had to go through to get through the day because they were constantly confronted with things that were incongruent to their reality, and they had to deal with them as society changed.

1:05:37 My mom had a real problem with the internet. That was a that was just that blew the lid off her little world, and it was upsetting. Every religion has Catholic guilt. Yeah. You know, like, it's like Catholic guilt. Definitely. Catholics coined that. They did their and they own it to the degree. But every religion has that guilt factor.

1:05:55 Yes. And I say I would just wouldn't that feel I don't know about you guys, but when you feel guilty about something like I, I'm mean to my husband one day and I'm like, I'm really eats away at her soul, right? Like, I just, I, I accidentally my gentle parenting stops for a second and I yell at my child.

1:06:11 I'm like, I'm really sorry. Do you need a hug? Like, you know, like that that guilt has to eat away at. So it does. And it affects your actions and your capabilities. What you can do, it's kind of like, uh, it's almost like a process running in a computer, taking up all the memory and processing power. It's like running around the background, just eating things up.

1:06:31 You don't have the bandwidth to pay attention to the world around you, or to or to act or to do things, or exactly the amount of bandwidth I need. And I guess, like I said, you know, the ignorance helps because they're not paying attention to the same things I'm paying attention to. Good point. Um, But like, I just feel like I got it would be so much work.

1:06:50 Yeah. Like, I was indoctrinated as a small child. My parents didn't know. Like that's what you did. You were either Catholic or Episcopal where I grew up. So, you know, I was baptized at Episcopal. We went to church a few times, but even at like the ripe age of six years old, I was like, this is weird. I never wanted to go back.

1:07:08 Like I wanted to go to church for the Friendly's we got after. Oh, I and, you know, my parents were common experience, right? Right. Yeah. Like, my parents were cool with it because my mom's like, well, we did it because we were supposed to, right? So, like, my dad's was more like, it's like an umbrella. Like, if I have it, I need it.

1:07:25 If I don't, I don't like it. Go. As time went on, they both became more of the ages. But, you know, like, it's God, I'm having trouble right now having to deal with people in my family who might try and indoctrinate my children later in life. And that's. Yeah, I've been through that experience. That's again taking away a choice for somebody.

1:07:46 More than anything. It is. It's really imposing a belief to go to church shouldn't be allowed until they're capable of, right. Until you reach some kind of age of determination where you make a real decision, think critically. And so I'm gonna say the church won't doesn't like that, because then very few people, you know, critical thinking is evil.

1:08:03 The sooner the sooner you get people. Well, that's why they made all those stops at churches. They were trying to get millennials and Gen X or Gen Z in there. Yeah, 100%. That's why there was Pokemon stops at churches. Wow. Do you know how much of an uptick they saw of people like my age, your age, your age?

1:08:20 Younger because they need to go in there and catch Pokemon? Because they need to get Pokemon. That's. You know what that is the most like together I've ever seen the world. Even more so than after nine over 11 when Pokemon came out. We were all just happy for Pokemon that like, touches children. Is that oh, you find that one in us in the church?

1:08:37 Oh yeah, it's Pokemon Go. Oh, it's called priesthood. A priest preach. He transforms into cardinals. Oh, damn. Damn. Evolves and down. Evolves into populace. Wow. Populace. Mhm. Choirboy. Attack.

1:08:57 Molestation. Frankincense. Murder.

1:09:03 Altar boy. He used holy water. He was the only one. You must get down on your knees. Did you hear that? I'll have to mirror Jack. Oh my God. So I'm back to the topic. I was getting out of hand. Back to that topic. So, like, the core idea here is abortion, right? So, like, um, I feel as if I have somewhat of a progressive stance towards it.

1:09:23 Feel as if I do. I probably don't, right. Like you said, like a man, you know, has a disassociation with it, which is true. Right? So but it's not like I don't have a motion. You have to be able to empathize with what a woman. Imagine you're not sympathizing with her. You're empathizing with, yes, we've all felt extreme pain.

1:09:42 We have got an idea. So in a in a head trauma. Yes. Which has to be insanely traumatic. As we touched on earlier, we're all just, you know, parts of trauma. Yeah, just big old boiling pots of trauma. So you have in the United States, a large number of people that are still believe in angels. And, you know, it's like a high percentage.

1:10:00 Right. And, um, but some of the, some of the data that's out now highly suggest that the younger people are the church is waning a lot younger people are having exodus and understanding of the church. And, um, that's a sign that in the future, the influence of the church and the clergy, you know, and the different religions that you find the United States mostly Christian based, they're Abrahamic based, but mostly Christian.

1:10:22 Mhm. Are going to wane over time in society. And this is, this is being seen in Europe as well. Right. There's this trend towards long, long term trend of decline in the church and ideology. Right. But we're still right now in 2022, in a still in a high. You know, um, rate of people that believe these things like and you can break down in different ways but like spirituality and and and angels and all these kind of things.

1:10:49 There's a high belief system still in the United States that there's I need to see if it was what the statistics were between boomers, Gen X, millennials and Gen Z. Like what is I want to see that chart. I'm younger than the younger. The less, the less involved they are in church and the less leave they have in these type of things, which is why those megachurches are marketing the hell out of them.

1:11:10 So they. You ever drive up to an elevation? It's like a club. It's like a dance party. They are techno in it up and somehow it's like, oh God, it's an awesome God. And it's like, boom, boom, boom, boom. Oh yeah. And there's people out there like breaking it down. People are talking and stuff. It's terrible. But the thing is, you watch their online materials and they say things like they have, they have this British lady saying, oh, people upside down working on a wall.

1:11:36 It's like Jesus wanted this. Jesus wants this. Of course he wants it. But Jesus, worker. Jesus. Oh, damn. So the big the big thing. Hey, you could probably market your thing earlier to Christians. Probably the. No, no, no, it's off the record. Oh, I'm sorry, but yeah. So the big thing that I doubt of watching some of their materials like in this was like 2012 was they had this British lady on there who would calmly say things like, we need your seat.

1:12:13 Like, if you've been here for a while, we need that churn. We need you to leave so the new people can come in and be energized and give us more of their money than you're giving us now. Because you've been here for six months, you're probably giving us less money. Yeah. And she would commonly say things like that almost exactly like I just said it.

1:12:30 Well, in case anybody's wondering, you can actually if you see any churches out with a political signs, you can call the IRS on them, really use their tax exempt status. That's a great thing. They can, they can. It doesn't mean they always will, but they can't. They're not going to. Damn it. But I can try. Damn it. Yeah, I love it.

1:12:49 So, um, I love it. Back to this abortion idea. Right? So, like, this progressive idea towards abortion is if you put it in the matrix, put it in the, um, the buffet or the full range of, of of birth control options. Right. You have all these different things, you know, condoms to birth control, to the pill, to Ides, to vasectomies, to all these different, you know, full.

1:13:09 Yeah. Yeah. Right. That women can't get because doctors are like, you might change your mind, right. They're like, well, what if you get divorced and your husband wants a baby? Yeah. What if your husband was. I don't really care what my husband was. Yeah, yeah. So so in this, um, I understand its permanent in a highly technical environment where society is being pressed in every direction from technology advance.

1:13:30 Right. Mhm. Um, Reproduction is another domain of that that was heavily influenced by the hand of technology. Right. Science, technology. Yeah. So, um, what I, what I would advocate for like trying to be progressive on the idea is, is this composite training if you will. So like when um, sex education but with modern with a modern understanding, actual helpful, not celibacy based.

1:13:56 Yeah, exactly. Sex education. No. That is a huge thing that is based in society based understanding the cross section between where they both meet. Yes. You know. Yes. And so what I'm saying is that because technology is advancing and these different things about, you know, reproductive health and reproductive rights and what's available as far as technology goes, not only just, um, you know, young people being trained by their parents and then some, you know, traditional sex education through school and all that kind of stuff, but actually like a, a social service to where actually adults are educated on the advancements and the changes in reproductive health.

1:14:32 Right, right. Because they're inevitably the ones training the younger generation. Right? Right. And so parents like, I don't I don't have access to like a free clinic on reproductive, you know, understanding all the current advances and stuff. And so that would take a lot of the that would that would do a lot to like transform the cognitive viewpoint that we have of reproductive health.

1:14:52 That's right. Really good point. By really expanding the access to information about the modern advances in reproductive health. But unfortunately, that would go against a lot of the very Christian religions is even teaching about those things, because to think about those things. Is this it? Yeah. Right. So and it's like, okay, the sin is in the act, not the thought.

1:15:13 Right. And so being prepared before you get into the act. But I completely understand what you're saying. Like you, you are 100% correct on that. So I'm a heavy advocate for education, education and right and governing and education on every level. The the older people, the younger people, you know. Yes. Every guy told somebody on on a continued terrible Facebook comment recently, a Facebook argument was that, you know, you you act like you want to do all these things to help others, but you don't do anything.

1:15:45 You don't agree with a two year college, but yet, like free? Yes, for free. But we're all over here going, wait a minute. If we have masses that are educated, our country would actually thrive. Things like, you know, people having all these babies and not knowing what to do with them, it wouldn't happen. It, you know, we if we had educated masses, our country would thrive like never before because we could even still have religion.

1:16:13 But with actual education and that religion as a as a supplement, not the be all, end all, it can be the gravy on top, not the driving force. Right. So there's there's a um, like I said, you got to remember that bell curve distribution of intelligence. So no matter how much education you throw at it, you're going to have a bell curve distribution of the.

1:16:32 But at least we would raise the bottom right. No you would for sure. Education is you know free public education is cornerstone of, you know, one of the things that's guaranteed, right. Like everyone has a Republican, one of the socialist things everyone likes, but then bitches about. Yeah, there we go. Right. Yeah. Um, But you have to always govern or legislate or create regulation or come from the ideology that there's a bell curve.

1:16:56 Right. And so a certain amount of people like, let's say after the first standard deviation down on the side of like lesser intelligent, um, they need to be cared for and carried by those that are involved in their lives, right, right through these processes. So education really serves really well for the people that are caregivers of other people that are less intelligent.

1:17:16 So, right. And so having a general access to this stuff in society will take the people that are that can actually then carry, if you will, those that are less intelligent in this area because they have the knowledge. Right, right. If we if we put them up and help them build up, we would probably have more of a thriving society at that point.

1:17:35 But instead, you know, the unfortunately the less intelligent breed a lot faster. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard that that is what has said. But but, um, you know, intelligence is going to be a fluid thing based on environment. So someone can come from an unintelligent family and become a Nobel Peace Prize winner, given the right environment. Right? So I really am a high advocate for really strong advocate for this idea that all government should happen from the idea from the from the mental disposition of determinism like belief that the environment is going to sculpt society.

1:18:08 I 100% agree divorce it from, you know, separate the church and state for real and divorce real divorce. Not just pay lip service. Right? You know, that's really what we're doing. Start to take start to take free will out of the calculus. So like when you when you see someone come up from the from the hood becomes a gang banger and ends up in prison for doing a drive by.

1:18:29 Mhm. Right. That, that is not just viewed as that person's choice. It's viewed as a systemic failure of society. Right. And then that we take some culpability there and we take and we bring it in and we learn from it and we do things like, hey, you know, we amp up jobs like caregiving, like we were talking about, and we support those jobs.

1:18:50 Make it an actual job. Say, all right, you're giving a stipend by the government because you are taking care of this less intelligent person. You're doing this. People have this ideology that everybody has to pull themselves up by the boot straps. Oh, yeah. That's ridiculous. Yeah. And is completely and utterly just impossible. It is. And the myth of the lone inventor in America as well.

1:19:10 I did this a completely by myself. I am Elon Musk. Yeah. The only reason I am where I am right now is because I met my husband. There we go. That is I, I would have probably just been struggling just as hard as I was 15 years ago had I not met my husband. Yeah. Um, He gave me the financial stability.

1:19:33 Yeah. And helped me with my own financial stability. And, you know, we were able to create a financially stable life for us and our kids. Yeah. And but without him and honestly, his generational wealth that he's had, I wouldn't be where I am right now. That makes sense. Well, and anyone looking at it from I could have worked my ass off my ass off in a field that I really love, you know, working with animals and animal welfare and, um, veterinary technology, which is very, very much an essential, very essential field.

1:20:05 And I would have never been able to pull myself up on my bootstraps because to pay and right inflation, inflation and everything like that. So that's exactly what we're talking about here, because the belief that pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is the domain of complete free will. It's free will that governs everyone's life, right? When nobody else but you.

1:20:23 You can do it right, but can't. Yeah, it's a lot of things other than just me. It's a no brainer that, like, you know, Bezos can't be sanely wealthy without having an infrastructure, right? Amazon can't exist without roads. And, you know, internet and all the infrastructure that is public. Right. So like takes a village. Right? So so determinism is like the data shows that determinism is the governing for is a is a governing force.

1:20:49 In reality there's evidence for determinism. There's absolutely no even though everyone believes it, there's no evidence for free will in a sad. But it's it's there's just no evidence. No evidence for the theory. Yeah, but that doesn't mean there's not a strong belief in it. Right. And Sean and I talked to at length about free will versus Germany.

1:21:06 But free will does have a does have its place because the belief system in free will. You know, if you if you had no belief whatsoever in free will, you'd have a hard time getting out of bed every day. Well, it frees you. The belief system in free will frees you to have self agency, to be in control of some action, and to feel like you're contributing and doing something.

1:21:28 Well, that's why I think the non-religious or the less spiritual people tend to thrive because they're like, well, I can make this choice because it feels good, or I can not make this choice because it feels bad. Yeah. And and like there I think they are embrace that free will more. And it tends to go to the, the the more moral side of the the free will spectrum if you will.

1:21:53 I guess so so so another way to see the truth of society is to take, take the take what society emphasizes in showcases and understand that that's going to be in the extreme because the, the, the attention always goes in society to something that's an outlier. Like we notice outliers much more than we notice Norm. Right, right. So for example, the evening news always has always has the doom and gloom stuff.

1:22:18 Right? Right. Like like, let's be honest, if there was a dumpster fire happening right now, that'd be taking our attention more than just the normal flow of traffic, right? More than that loud train going by. Right. And so what? That was funny. What we do is we we create in our in our minds is just because it's natural to do it.

1:22:35 We start to piece together a worldview based on the outliers. Right. So like if you watch the evening news every night and that was your worldview, you'd think the world is on fire. And they've proven that people who do watch the news more often or older are more paranoid. They're more insular. They're they're scared to go out. Right.

1:22:51 Meanwhile, I'm not just watching the 6:00 news. I'm reading actual, you know, science journals, medical journals going on. Yes, the internet every gives everybody a platform, but it also gives everybody a platform which can be good. Yes. Um, When you're actually trying to find out real correct information and you know how to use Google, there we go and have a filter.

1:23:12 And, you know, you generally determine if something seems like it might be legitimate. The majority of the country doesn't even know how to properly use the Google search bar. And like, you know, you use the parentheses, the hyphens, the yeah, the quotes to figure out what you actually need, what you're truly looking for. Not just like all the misinformation that will pop up.

1:23:31 I mean, you can just type in positively pedestrian. Oh well there yes, we are a wellspring, a fountain of veritable information. Yeah, it'll it'll it'll pop up, right. You know, I mean, that's why Lindsay wanted to aid us in our need to broadcast information. I enjoyed the conversations you guys are having. I listen to about 4 or 5 of them.

1:23:52 Um, And it definitely kept my attention more than the dishes did. So that was, you know, I was like, good. Um, I love that, you know, I my daughter was saying mama, like 3 or 4 minutes before I realized she was saying mama. Oh, shit. So, you know. But no, you guys, I enjoyed the conversations you guys were having.

1:24:09 And I really appreciate you letting me, like, come in and join any time, any fun. Like I said to him, I got the face for radio, and I really I truly enjoyed you guys. It was a what did I say a titillating yes, I said, I said, I've never had that word describe used to describe me. I love it, but and it was it was like minded individuals with also differing opinions.

1:24:31 Yeah. So it's that's what I appreciated about it. Like we're all pretty sound mind. Yeah. Um, You know, we're all so. Yeah. For as sound as your mind could be in 2022. Right. But, you know, we all have think logically, think logically and defensible opinions. Yeah. We can comprehend what we see in here and read fairly well. So it's it's nice to have a conversation with two educated people.

1:25:01 And I appreciate you guys. So yeah that's awesome. It's awesome to have you. Audience please. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for letting me invite myself I appreciate it. All right. Now the group hug is done. Let's just keep talking. So you like having your own horn tooted? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was just like, you know, it cradled the ball like it's turning red.

1:25:25 That's not how hot it is. No, just because it is. So, um. And that's that's like my M.O.. Red cheeks, rosy cheeks, built in blush. Nice. So, um, this this whole Comey, Barrett and Kavanaugh, right? This whole this whole thing of, like, stacking the courts and whatnot. I don't know how that's even legal in a two party system like we have.

1:25:46 How would you be why why, why are the Supreme Court justices not reading through Republicans in an independent? Like why not? Well, right. It would be. It would be really. It just makes sense. That would be insane that anybody is able to stack the court one side or the other. Because when the country is not one side or the other.

1:26:04 Yeah. And it just makes sense to we do have more red states, but technically the population is more blue leaning than red because it's higher populations. Uh, New York City, California, the country, the states that are more left leaning have much higher populations than Nebraska. Oklahoma. I can fly over country. Right. So it's if you were to make a master playbook, if you were to mastermind this thing, right, what better system would you would you have than a than a paid for two party system where the, you know, industrial complexes can basically pay for those two parties, right?

1:26:37 So the RNC and the DNC are 100% bought and sold and paid for by these different industrial complexes, mostly military industrial complex. Right. And so what you do then is you keep this conflict of lack of lack of a progressive center. Mhm. You keep polarization happening, you keep it divide and conquer. So basically here's, here's a new entity, here's a new person coming into the, into the population.

1:27:01 Okay. That was born because um, was born because the mom couldn't have an abortion. Right. So boom, you have this new citizen. Yeah. Now the citizen is going is going to most likely be funneled into one of these, one of these groups, one one of these, one of the two broad buckets, one of the two broad buckets for politics.

1:27:21 Do they have it? Right. And so really those two buckets are just one and the same. Well, and they started teaching me about politics when I was in second grade. We've been following the Bill Clinton election and all that stuff. Yeah. They started yelling yeah, yeah. So when you start to try to get indoctrinate you quick. So so you look over the trend line of like where we're moving as a nation when the Republicans are in power and the Democrats in power.

1:27:41 And what you'll find out is just more of the same, more the same, more the same more of the for stalemate, for the wars, the foreign wars continue. Mhm. Right. The separation of wealth between the ultra wealthy and everybody else, no matter. President runs the house. No matter. Yeah. Meet the old boss. Same as the or meet the same as the old boss.

1:27:59 Like, I'm not gonna lie, when, you know, we did have when the the left did have the House majority for their for a short time. Yeah. I was like oh right. Yeah. It was, it was. Why were you like that. I don't know because now I don't know because I'm, I'm like. I was visibly relieved in a way, because I was a, I was like, at least there's some people in there who might slightly care about my rights.

1:28:25 Like, you know, you got you got big, you got good old Bernie. I don't care who you are, that man. You want him to be your uncle who brings you gifts like you got AOC in there? Who? I like her, I love her, and I hope one day she's president. I don't know if I'll see that in my lifetime.

1:28:40 Bernie is wrong a whole bunch of times. And so is AOC. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, 100%. I lean more Democrat because I line up more with the Democratic platform ideology. But in the last five, ten years, I've shifted way of further away from them because of the fact that they're in the same pocket as everybody else. Not that I've seen the light or anything, but I just think the data and the evidence and everything else suggests that it's just a series of industrial complexes that we then get grouped into.

1:29:06 It's only a matter of time before the ones who aren't bought and paid for are. Yes, but I feel like some of the people who are out there are trying to create change and churn. Right. And I, I definitely as the cell, that's just the cell. Well, I think get you in the door. That's the foot in the door technique.

1:29:23 What what what I think I like most about, um, like and like you said, like, why was I excited about that? And I think it was just because after the last few years, I was like, Jesus, thank you. Like, it was more of just like a like an imaginary relief. Like a like a Biden wasn't elected, right? He was just the person that was there that wasn't Trump.

1:29:41 Right, exactly. Fucking ham sandwich would have beat Trump. Well, that's how that's how I voted in the last election was like, how many election cycles do we have to go through where it's a lesser of evil vote that we're going for? Right. Right. I don't want to go with the lesser of evil. I want to go with just a better person.

1:29:57 And the I'm going to say the DNC has a problem. I like that reference thing. You the DNC has a problem giving people candidates that they do want to get behind. They haven't been able to do it for the last few elections. Give somebody, you know, and it's almost like, well, we accidentally put forth Obama. Now we don't know what to do.

1:30:20 Right. Like, well, them throwing Kamala Harris into the vice presidency. That was a that's a hell that was desperate. That was that was a Hail Mary. Like I am not a Kamala Harris fan. Yeah. Am I okay with her being the first female vice president? Sure. Yes. I am not mad. I think she was a very good candidate.

1:30:38 I don't agree with everything she does, but if she's going to represent the female population as the first. Not a bad representative. I'm not mad. Better than Hillary being the first president Kamala Harris up. If she's the anointed one for the next election cycle, let's just say they put her up as like the DNC. Like if they if you notice, the DNC basically just picks whoever they want.

1:30:58 Right. Right. Despite what the people want. Yeah, right. Which is crazy. That's why they blocked Bernie both Democratic times. Yes. And if Bernie ran as an independent, he'd fucking win. Oh, yeah. Right. 100%. Kind of to late for him now. Now he's just fucking straight to old. Let's be honest. I just want him as my uncle. That's all I want, right?

1:31:13 Just want to visit the guy, hang out. But the superstructure, like I said, if you were to architect the master plan, this two party system where you have them both in your pocket, and then the series of industrial complexes, creating a cryptocurrency for government would be your ideal structure. Right. Because what you do is you keep people in this group ism nonsense blocking true middle ground, progressive, you know, for society, you disenfranchize people and you allow them to since they're fighting over this nonsense.

1:31:39 Errata, they're not seeing the big picture items that really affect them the most, like the massive separation of wealth. Mhm. You have it in all of human history right now. At this point in time, this moment in history, we're seeing the greatest percentage differential wealth than we've ever seen in the we need entire fucking redistribution of it. We do that back in the fetal times, right?

1:31:59 When a king would just come and say, I want five chickens from that farm, you know, whatever. You know, I want that. I want that girl. So I'm gonna there was less of a gap then than there. And you could you could storm the Bastille, too. You could storm the castle, right? Like I could storm the, you know, storm the capital.

1:32:15 Yeah, but you turn on someone hard enough back in the day and they can come with pitchfork and torture. Yeah, it'd be a regime change, right? Right. But what I'm saying is that an actual standard. Standards by which that king. Right. Mhm. The lived was, was way more consistent with the way the peasant lived than by today's standards.

1:32:35 Right. Lived in a drafty castle. They lived in a drafty hut. The janitor, the janitor and the CEO just as well. Yeah, the janitor and the CEO were far more evenly matched back then. Damn right. Right. There we go. Now, I like a difference between eating and not. That's why I like Costco. The guy only pays himself ten times what his most highly compensated employees paid.

1:32:56 Like if there was. If there was famine and, you know, Renaissance times, it affected every single person. Nobody had pigs on the side. Not do that now. That's right. So now. Yeah. You're right. With this incredible separation of wealth, what we're doing in technology is amplify that. Right? Technology as as in my opinion, has been a net force for positive change.

1:33:14 Right. True. But what also has come out of this is this ability to create this separation of wealth that's unprecedented. Now you have the richest nation in in all of history that's ever been conceived. You have the greatest productivity of all time due to mechanization and automation. It was the greatest productivity of human beings have ever seen. But yeah, we also have the highest incarcerated per capita.

1:33:35 That's correct. Country. Correct. Now, these industrial complexes have come in and contaminated the government structure. And these two party system. Like I said, if you were to architect it, you couldn't get oil drugs and, uh, oil drugs. And what did you say or controls it? Oh, I said consumerism, consumer religion and drugs. Yeah. But all is a good example of consumer ism comes from consumerism.

1:33:58 Yeah. You can really take anything and put it through those channels and then see how the conservative forces. Right. Take something that could be wonderful and convert it into like just a massive money scheme to, you know, siphon wealth and trickle it down. No. Yeah. Yeah. And we were talking about that trickle down economics re, you know, Reaganomics that that does not work the because human nature is to hold and hoard human nature.

1:34:25 It doesn't work for the common person. No. Right. It works great for people. Yeah. You know the top. No. And that's how the 1% stayed. Yeah, the 1% all these years. That's it. So throw this abortion now into that paradigm. So this now new abortion thing. So stack the court right. You get this push through. And now what you have is you have this evangelical high Christian, you know, population feeling as if they have some kind of momentum.

1:34:52 Okay. So now their site is winning. And so what you do is you get to see saw shit happening. So look at the whole entire history of abortion. You have this C song happening with like different states making different rules and regulations, and it goes up to the courts and it's just this constant thing which then people can spend their mental energy on oscillating back and forth.

1:35:11 Well, they do other things. There we go, right there looking left. And we're going right. Exactly. And then what you do is you, the people that are on the one side of the seesaw when they're losing, they then rally. Mhm. Right. And they spend their time energy. Effort money. Right. Right. Through what they believe is the is their party ideology.

1:35:29 That's going to then reverse it back the other way. And then all they do is just let it seesaw back the other way and just shit all the same. More the same shape as keep happening. Well, and I've said the ideal system. There you go. Right. Well, I've said over and over again, Democrats are, frankly, little pussies like they are just they don't have the ability or the gall to do what needs to be.

1:35:52 The Republicans in the last few years have. But Republican voters, Republican candidates, they are doing whatever they have to do to get the votes. The people, the gerrymandering gerrymandered, they are doing whatever they have to do to do it. And Republicans are like, well, we don't, or Democrats are like, we don't like that. Don't do that. Don't do that.

1:36:12 And you know what? If we will definitely cancel you. Yeah. And if we don't want if we don't do that, you won't do that, right? Like, I'm all about caring about everybody. And like I said, you know, I'm very, very deeply rooted in my morals of making sure that other people are cared for. Um, I like everybody to, you know, I love feeding people.

1:36:33 That's like my favorite thing to do is feed people. But I'm also like, hey, guys, let's can we stop fighting each other for a minute? Because we're, like, canceling each other and because one guy said something when he was 15 and had little to no education about what that thing meant. And we're buying into the distraction instead of educating and empathizing and understanding with people.

1:36:57 We're just going back. And we're but our nature is empathize with people, right? Our nature is to cooperate and work together. And so what these systems I think evolution has just kind of thrown that nature out the window over the past, like I would say 100 years or so. So, so, so these the superstructure that then gets to this club that gets the cap, this, this, this population.

1:37:18 Right. What inevitably does is it starts to separate us from our nature. And it goes back to that thing I was talking about. When you're living separate from reality, right? Right. You then have this, this energy budget. And so what you do is instead of being taking the time and energy to really rationalize things, what you do is you you fall back on the simplicity of talking points, right?

1:37:42 Really simple. Quick hit. My, my, my Democratic Party has this viewpoint on all these things. That's my viewpoint, right? So now I don't have to think through. All you going to do is when I, when I go toe to toe with someone, let's say a conservative or Republican, he just whip out. You're ready to use gripped right. And they're whipping out when they're ripping out.

1:38:00 They're ready to use talking points back. Right. And now we're just in this loop doing nothing. Well and that's progressive and progressive and conservative groups on social media. That's literally people literally give each other talking points nonstop. Wow. And I'm like, that's not going to solve anything. You have to have a genuine conversation about people and their experience.

1:38:20 And I know I've said it before, I feel like it's intellectual wanker. Talking points don't work when canvasing. Talking points don't work when on, um, cold calling or at call center because you're not going to convince someone with a talking point. Talking point is a pre ready to go thing. It isn't something you can engage with emotionally, it's something you just use by default as a tool.

1:38:41 Right. And I canvas back in the 2014 North Carolina Senate elections for Kay Hagan and Planned Parenthood votes. Mhm. Um, And I was one of the I had a team of like 15 people that I took around in. We came bus and stuff like that. And we had a script that we were supposed to follow. Mhm. Every time I would get new people or a new team I would tell them to ignore that script.

1:39:03 Nice. I would tell them to talk to people. Yeah. And be like why do you feel this way? You know like I was. Yeah, right. Yeah. That's probably my fault. But all your fault because you went off grid. We really got a lot of people. I think if more people took my approach to it, we probably would have had a better time.

1:39:21 I think you're right, because it's about engaging with person as an individual and treating them like a human being. Well, and I'd be like, look, if you're stopped at a crosswalk, start a conversation with somebody. Don't start it off in a political aspect either. It just be like, hey, I'm not. These are, you know, what are you doing?

1:39:35 Small talk. And then things spin off. If people just actually communicated, rather than trying to take their ideologies and shove them down somebody's throat, that would break the system. And so that's why that allowed. That's why we have this 100%. That's why you have this group. There's some that's why you have the different pundits. That's why you have the media's role.

1:39:54 All this stuff ties in together to keep a divide and conquer, you know, thing happen. Romeo and Juliet is perfect example of why communication is key and anything. Right, right. So imagine imagine on so many levels. They're right. They managed to overcome the environment and prejudices. They were prejudices they were given. And then at the end, I'm pretty sure it was Cleopatra and her last husband.

1:40:16 There was a there was a lot of miscommunication there. Yeah. So imagine, like, I'm sitting here, I'm a sexual like I said earlier, I'm a secular humanist, which means I believe in, you know, helping people, people first and kind of approach to life as a life stance. And then also don't come at it from a I don't come at it from a God perspective.

1:40:33 Right. I take the good without God kind of idea ideology. Right now, if you sit me down with the most extreme evangelical Christian, right, we just sit down, okay? We pull out a blank sheet of paper and we say, okay, let's talk about just a couple things, right? Let's just start with, um, people that need food. Let's start with something as simple as that.

1:40:55 Tell me, what if if you had someone in your community that was hungry and they say their children were as well, their their children were food insecure, and for whatever reason, the husband works and mom stays at home. They still just can't make ends meet, right? Yeah. They're going to sometimes. And you have knowledge of this family and, you know, then tell me what you would tell me how you would act.

1:41:13 Right. And I can almost guarantee that this evangelical Christian, you know, really extreme religious.

1:41:22 I would they would take care of that person. They would, they would say, if you just made it simple and you said, would you would you feed them? You know, they would definitely. I would say 99% of the time would say yes. Why does their opinion change the more people it comes to them? That's right. Yeah. Like so then you ask me same question, right.

1:41:42 And say, absolutely. If I was aware of someone that was food insecure in my community, I would just go to the grocery store. And in fact, I would create a steady stream of food for them, right? I would just include increase my food budget and make it happen for them. Right? Yeah. If I, if I was, I would take responsibility.

1:41:56 Why not? If anybody ever asked me for money on the street, I'm like, I don't have money, but I will buy you food. I told you, I love to feed people. Yeah. Same here. And you know, the last homeless guy that I had that conversation with, he was like, can you give me some beer too? I was like, sure.

1:42:10 Oh, yeah. You know, I brought people beer. I bought people dog food because, you know what? You're homeless. You're down and out. Yeah, I would probably need at least a fifth of Jack. Right? Like it? Just just a little bit. I'm also probably going to buy drugs with my own money, so. Right. Yeah, I'm going to, but I'm gonna help you see your going for but help you see your way to the other side here.

1:42:32 New podcast name off the rails.

1:42:36 You're on to something or off something I don't know. Off the rails with Lindsay off the rails. So what we find out is when we bring we bring a muslim to the table. We bring a Buddhist to the table. We bring, you know, an atheist. We bring in a Gnostic. We bring all these people to the same table.

1:42:51 We bring a Scientologist. No, they can't come. Are everybody cross-section of society, right? Scientology can't come. And when you find out written on this piece of paper, is that predominantly way over when the majority is like people will come to a consensus that, yes, when people are hungry, we should give them food. Yeah. Food is a dime a dozen in modern mechanized.

1:43:10 Yeah. You know, we have food busting out the seams. They throw most of it away. I mean, if somebody's dying. What do you do? Right. So your neighbor comes out having a heart attack. Starting with this simple. Let's start with the simple and build up. Right. So what we do is we see this overwhelming consensus that the ideology of America is that we don't want to see anyone be food insecure or hungry.

1:43:29 Mhm. And this real. Now all you have to do, like I said earlier, once you get past one step everything falls apart, right. Because now you get into say okay well how are we going to go about doing that right now. You've introduced the first wrinkle of complexity. And that alone you've now cleaved off 75% of the people because of the political climate.

1:43:51 Who pays for it and how does it get there? Question now it's over now. Now the people remain hungry. Well, not me. I'm paying for nobody who just lazy and sits at home. But you were just talking to me about how you'd have compassion for that neighbor. But now everyone you know see what I'm saying now, after one or even two barriers of complexity in the current political environment, everybody walks away from the table, right?

1:44:10 And they walk away from the table. Disenfranchized no one got what they. There's still people sitting there going, but and they're still the food insecure people can. Can we fix this? Yeah. Yeah. There's still and because ultimately nobody got what they wanted. They just gave up. Well, the fact that food deserts in this country even exists where people literally have no access to fresh food.

1:44:30 Yeah. Other than the Dollar General, you know, like nobody generals go into terrible areas on purpose and control prices and product selection, right? I mean, and give you nearly expired food. Yeah. Sometimes it is expired. So what's happening? Is the system at large, right. These industrial complexes, these industrial complexes in this.

1:44:53 Nice these industrial complexes and the fact that they have this and these people in the political camps and their different ideological camps, right. What that does is it serves as a as a way to to have the actual will of the people never be served. Right. What will the will of who is served then? We already know the ultra wealthy, the kleptocracy, the by.

1:45:14 That's by default. What? The definition of kleptocracy is a government that works for the ultra, the the powerful, the wealthy and the politically connected people. And it doesn't work for everybody else. Right. So the nature of the current cryptocurrency that we have in the government causes the actual will and the value system and the heart of the people, and.

1:45:32 Right. What people want to never be able to be entertained because those different factions, those different factions and divisions, have people leave the table as soon as you enter in the slightest bit of complexity. So what we need to do, in my opinion, even though everything we pay into for taxes is already allocated to some of the most ridiculous things you could think of.

1:45:51 Yeah, like cruise missiles. Yeah. Like, so we're getting all these alligator. We're, we're we're allocating all these taxes to X, y, Z, which are doing absolutely nothing to help you as an individual. No. Either way. Right. So like, they're feeding some industrial complex right there. They're leaving potholes all over the roads. They're you know, they're doing all like public schools are shite.

1:46:15 Like it's they're not actually using the taxes the way they're supposed to be allocated. So if we had somebody who actually said, okay, taxes are for x, y, z, we would still or a, b, c instead of x, y, z, we would have some semblance of being able to fix these issues. But people automatically go to the not my money.

1:46:35 I ain't paying for some of these lazy like that's. And it's not even cause that's the first level. That's that's visible and easy to see. Exactly. And that is you take the small percentage of people who are lazy and don't do nothing, and you're like, well, everybody's like that. Yeah. Ain't no nobody's trying to work right now is the prevailing, you know, trying to work for free.

1:46:53 That's it. Nobody's trying to get screwed and kill themselves for a job. And I have reached the point where they're like, look, the amount of time, effort, energy and all that that I'm putting into this, I'm not getting it back out. I don't want to do this job for you. Yeah, no, because I need a job, not this job.

1:47:10 People have stopped taking calls on the weekends. People have stopped, you know, they're they're pulling a page from France's book. Mhm. They're like, I'm on vacation. Don't talk to me. Yeah. And we could get into that four day work week. Now we could when all this pressure continues to build right. We could January 6th could just be a walk in the park.

1:47:28 So what might be coming in our future if we don't start to look at some things differently? Oh, yeah. So let me walk you through a really simple well, and it's happened slowly over probably the last like 4 to 5 decades. I'm sure this is just slowly been edging in this direction. And Margaret Atwood is seeming like a freaking oracle at this point.

1:47:46 I know, Margaret, did you guys see the UN edition of her book she created? It's fantastic. Yes, but that's funny. Yes. So she took a blowtorch to that bitch. Her like, you know, you got the three oracles, you got George Orwell, you got Margaret Atwood, and, um, the other one. I can't think of his name right now. Um, But, you know, you got these authors who are suddenly becoming like, uh, why?

1:48:11 You know. Yeah. The prophecies. Thank you. Yes. So look at the. You're right. Military industrial complex is a simple example. So the tax money that gets majority of the tax money goes to defense. Defense is the largest segment of our budget, right. So you take the tax money goes to the defense unquote defense which is another brilliant marketing term.

1:48:30 Oh yes. It's so good. They're so good. What that does is I want their marketing teams information giant. So some of these podcasts would go through the roof right through these defense contracts. You have like Lockheed Martin and all these other companies that, you know, Boeing, Raytheon, all this kind of stuff. They're making tremendous money, tremendous money. I mean, my gosh, it's like bursting at the seams money on developing weapons systems undeveloped.

1:48:54 The, the, the, you know, the capabilities of our military, right. So what you see is, um, then they take these arms in a certain amount of them are available for sale. I mean, there's some international market. Like I said, America is the number one arm of the world, right? And so the profits of those arms sales don't go back into the Treasury.

1:49:12 They go to these companies. Mhm. Right. And so what you see that that Nic Cage movie. What's that. Oh Lord of War. Lord of War. There you go. Explains it very well. It does in about five minutes. And then um, all the wealth that then is generated for these companies creates the influence in government through the kleptocracy like preaching here.

1:49:32 Right? And so you look at them, the net on how that actually serves the bulk of the American people. And it doesn't it just it's just another another way of entrenching and enriching certain individuals. Right now, you go back to that table, that piece of paper again on the table, and you say, you know, what do people want?

1:49:49 Well, people want security. They want to have, you know, a country that's protected. We don't want to, you know, be invaded and taken over by a foreign, you know, of course. Right. Right. Okay. That everybody would agree with everybody would agree with that. Of all the crazy things that can happen in our world right now, that just doesn't seem like the most pressing.

1:50:06 Yeah, yeah. And so then you can get down to the nitty gritty and break down each one of these industrial complexes and sit down with that sheet of paper with the common group of all walks of life of America. And what you'll see is that that predominantly that people who don't want any of that stuff. Mhm. So what we need then, what we need then is an actual cultural shift in the country.

1:50:27 It's not going to happen that the kleptocracy is proven itself to be so entrenched. All it's doing is increasing and magnifying. Well in any time people get out of it they're like, they just they suck you right back in. Yeah. They're like, okay, we're gonna throw out this new, you know, marketing campaign. And right, boom, here we go.

1:50:43 So really, though, how do we suddenly they think sharks are bad because they eat people, you know? So what I'm trying to say is it's not going to happen through a capitalization effect. It's not going to happen through where people put their money. It's going to happen through where people put their ideology. Yeah. So what we need to do is we need a cultural shift, which then leads to the environmental shift, like leads to the shift in government.

1:51:03 So that leads me to think, you know, all right. It's for a cultural shift. We have to have a movement. We have to have something that's self-sustaining. We would have to agree on something. We would have to agree on something. And how do we facilitate agreement? I think what we all just said is get people in the same room and get them talking and one another connecting with each other on a human level, like stupid things like, hey, get the dominatrix and the preacher in the same room and maybe have them paint something and talk to each other.

1:51:33 Well, I think a big thing to do is an activity to share and get them talking. Wow. That's where you went with that? I don't know. No, no, you're not you're not wrong. You're not wrong done at all. Because like if you think about it, it's going. So the generation after mine I'm in the millennial generation. So if you take Gen Z um, they are they're being taught by millennials and Gen Xers right now as their teachers.

1:52:00 The majority of their teachers are going to be millennial or Gen X. Yeah. Um, And a lot of these teachers are assisting them in learning how to talk about not religion because it's public school. Well, now they can um, but politics. So a lot of, um, especially the millennial teachers are leaning more into helping children understand how to properly discuss politics, because if we can't discuss these things at the table, nothing will get done.

1:52:31 True. And I think I think that's going to be a huge thing for this. Everyone thinks they're nuts and we're screwed. But but that's the way everyone is thought of every success generation, right, is a generation full of beasts. Like they don't give a shit. They, you know, you come out and you're like, this guy screwed with me.

1:52:50 Uh, Made me feel uncomfortable. Yeah. And they come out full protest. They're like, we're leaving school. Get this guy out of here. And they make it happen. Like they don't mess around. I can respect theirs. It's thought to action. There's a direct like, hey, we're tired of dying in schools. We're out. Like, yeah, protest time. Goodbye. We're done.

1:53:10 Like they are making their own strides. Far more than my or your generation did. Like it's. Yeah, yeah. So I think maybe I'm slightly hopeful. Like, yeah, they do really stupid shit thanks to TikTok. But yeah, it's like I'm I'm truly hopeful for at least the collaborative compassion of the society because it might get a little better. That's a good one.

1:53:37 Collaborative compassion. So what I think the trends are showing is that what we're seeing is a further entrenchment of this kleptocracy. I think it's a toxic 5000 times. Sorry. Right. I would be hammered right now if we were playing a drink. Yes, yes. The clip. Tucker drinking game. She said we can't drink here. Doesn't mean there's not other options out there.

1:53:58 But anyway, you know, the entrenchment of that, the trend line shows that it that it's magnifying right now the people, the ideology. What you see in my opinion is a is an increase in polarization, increase of these group ism kind of activities. Right. And less cohesion or consensus. You see more of a polarization, like for example, social media echo chambers, you know, further polarizing people.

1:54:22 Right? Right now in that environment, you really have little hopefulness for like an all of a sudden societal, you know, reversion, cultural or cultural shift. It's very, very unlikely because now you have coming up through the center is people being so disenfranchized they just spend all their time watching TikToks. Yeah. Or entertaining themselves or drugging themselves. Right, right.

1:54:44 And the entertainment is like dropping a gummy and entertaining themselves for 12 hours mindlessly right now. Fine. Okay. That's what people like to do, what they like to do. But there's a reason why there's a reason to act.

1:55:00 There wasn't a personal day, right? I feel personally attacked by this content. Yeah. Okay. Well, no, I know, I know, I was just being sarcastic and I was about to follow through with the punch, not pull it back. Oh. Oh, okay. I'm ready. As you were. Right here. Right here. So. So if that's if that's where y'all are at.

1:55:23 I don't have a glass jar. If that's if that's where you're at. Coming at you with your cell phone and not using your, your full intellect to analyze that situation and improve it, that's on you. Yes. Right. You're right. So. But as a society as a whole. Right. Well, you have now is this hyper entertainment? Uh, You know, segment of, of time where people spend their discretionary time.

1:55:48 Yeah. Becoming the new groundswell. And the reason is because all these issues in the world, climate change and abortion and all these things are so big on people's minds that they need that mental difference. They need something mentally different to grab on. Well, these are our new gods. Yeah. This is what we see our time and energy and effort to.

1:56:07 So a cultural shift has to come, in my opinion, in the form of some type of modeling for what's possible. So, um, imagine like a community that forms, um, maybe an incorporated town or something like that. And these people actually change the paradigm on what their, what their priorities are really just pronounced paradigm. Yeah, but I'm kidding. I'm getting getting getting ready for.

1:56:33 No it's paradigm. I'm just messing with you. Um, There was a commercial. There was a commercial back in the day where there was being like these. They were being tools in this, uh, you know, uh, like corporate room. And this guy goes. And it was a Twix commercial, and they were just trying to get through it. And this asshole goes, change the paradigm.

1:56:57 Oh my God. And it's like, oh, you're a dog. Remember that. So we're doing a link section on our website. So like when we reference things like this I'll find the link to it. And inevitably that's going to be on our website. I'll links to all this nonsense. Right. You can find you can find the link to the family Guy episode with the Scientific Society.

1:57:15 That's gonna be great. Yeah, that was great. They did several of those. There was the one where, like, um, the multiverse episodes are. The multiverse one was great. There was the other one where the Irish, like, were living in this high technical society. And then they bring out booze, they bring out whiskey, and the Hawkeyes society falls to hell.

1:57:31 And then another cousin. I like the one where they, all the white people disappear. Oh, why? People take off their white suits and they're like, we're very, uh, Hubert's in there. I hope they don't find the money. Strapped him at that jam. They did a one cut scene where that's one thing that has stayed untouched through all the cancel culture and everything like that is family Guy.

1:57:50 You know why? Because they do tasteful satire. They do. And it's not just the first level joke, and they make fun of every single. I went to grammar school. Did you? Oh my God, I could just listen to him talk all day. So they did this. It was a little annoying, but I'm sure he is one of the most annoying people in the entire world.

1:58:08 But I don't think he was. Oh, no. Oh, I thought oh, oh, you were. You were annoying. I thought you were saying he was. Yeah. So, um, they did. This other cutscene germane to what we're talking about was like these three people, like, in the kind of toga robe, sandals type thing thing there. And he goes, um, hi.

1:58:24 You know, I, you know, I like you, and I have no reason to to hate you. And they all say that to each other. And then the third one comes in and says, hey, did you all hear about this magic baby in Bethlehem? And they go, oh, they started stabbing again.

1:58:38 Don't hear about the magic baby. And they all start stabbing each other. Yeah, no. That's fantastic. That's one of my favorites. I'm thankful family Guy has remained untouched as well as South Park, because it is some of that terrible, humorous, satirical, in your face comedy that kept me going through all of it. And it makes it makes people think, but it also gives.

1:58:59 But also, like you said, it energizes us. It keeps us going, but it makes the other people think for a second. Anybody else deal with their trauma with humor? Hell yeah. We all in that standard. Oh yeah. That's how you get through it, right? So so right. Like you take this idea of of these people, there's really like a core sentiment of American culture and charity that's intact and strong.

1:59:18 Right? Like, Americans are very charitable. We care about each other. We're great population. We do have to be the ability to come together. Yeah, yeah, we've seen it. Yeah. And then the system that that's that's outlying that governs it, the system that surrounds that, the system that envelops that. Right. Actually, then we are recording this, right? Yes. The system, the system that the system that envelops, that abstracts and really quickly diffuses all of that positive energy.

1:59:44 Right? And then reverberates back into people with that negativity. There's a disconnect between their heart and what the what they're living through these different ideological camps. Right. Which then necessitates consumption, more consumerism, because the people then just use that channel as the stress and the emotional release mechanism. Right, right. And so, like, you have nothing there's no better consumer Mecca than a people that that are core dissatisfied, because then they're going to use the channel of consumerism to try to fill that void.

2:00:17 And we even acknowledge it with retail therapy, that phrase, oh, 100%. I am so guilty of that. Yeah. Oh, that is one of my advice. Put some SAB on your wounds. I'm feeling sad. Let me, let me go. Go on the sign up. Yeah, yeah. Get myself a sad day. Sweater. Yeah. Get a sad day sweater or a couple blanket right now that was purchased on a credit card.

2:00:38 So then that sweater that's $50 really cost you $320 when you finally paid off. And, you know, you enter this cycle and then, um, since the since the core sentiment of our cultural ideology is to go back to free will and pin everything on free will, that that people do that to themselves as well. They internalize it all.

2:00:56 They say, I'm not happy because I'm credit cards. Oh, nice. Most Americans, they don't say it out loud, but they have the emotional sentiment that I'm not happy because of my own choices. Right. And that comes back then into self-esteem. Right? And confidence and shakes us right. But no, there's a superstructure in place that that literally is grinding us down.

2:01:18 Right. And it's it's a contributing factor. Free will is okay. Let's let let's put free will in play. But then let's also put in play the overarching architecture of the system. Yeah. Grinding people down. Right, right. So so there's shared culpability here. Yes there's personal choice. But then there's on top of this, all these bear traps and all these layers from this trifecta.

2:01:39 I said consumerism, drugs and religion that are just waiting right to, to to grab on to you and create that disenfranchisement, then now turns you into the ultimate consumer, the perfect consumer. And I'm not saying consumer and not saying big grain conspiracy conspiracy theory. I'm not I'm not saying a conspiracy theory. I'm just saying that's not even a that's not far fetched.

2:02:02 That's like literally what's happening. Yeah. Yeah. I'm saying look at the data. Mhm. Not not conspiracy. I'm not saying Jeff Bezos is you know the masterminding. He's got space lasers. You know the Illuminati you know right. You know. No. Right. You know Bill gates put put microchip in the Covid world order. Yeah. No new world order. That's another one.

2:02:21 Yeah. You don't have to go there. Just look at the data and the structures that people find themselves in. Right. You can start with the information you usually need to answer your questions is usually right in front of you. Yeah. Yeah. You can you can start with the basic premise that where you're at when you're born is the highest predictive index of where you end up in your life, like where, where you will be and then where your children will be.

2:02:43 So I mean, to quote well, that's right. Yeah. I mean, you know, where you end up has a lot to do with where you start. Yeah. Now, again, we have an emphasis in this country to really put high emphasis on the outliers. So we always showcase the person that pulled them up by their own bootstraps. And so that's another when 95% of the country is three bad months away from poverty.

2:03:04 Yes, yes. And, you know, it's kind of crazy, but highly compensated individuals who are making, you know, even 200,000 or more, 33% of them are living paycheck to paycheck. Yeah, yeah. My husband is not not, not impoverished by any means. And yet we are still they take the paycheck. Yeah, we're we're a little a little more a little further from paycheck to paycheck than I've been in the past.

2:03:30 You know, we're not going $10 till Friday diet by any means. Oh, shit. Um, But we're still, like, we have our allotted amount for bills, and we're like, hey, we we really don't have much at all left over for anything goes over. You know, you have to rely on family. Well, and we are lucky enough to, you know, have some semblance of a rainy day fund should we need it.

2:03:52 Good. But like I said, three bad months away from that being gone, you know, like that. It won't take long. It's going to take you, what, 30 years to spend $1 billion? It's going to take me 30 minutes to spend a million, you know, like, yeah, you got a good point. So you got a good point. Maybe not the best contrast, but back in slave days, a slave.

2:04:17 All right, I'm leaving. No. I'm kidding. Go on. A slave had food, shelter, clothing, water, uh, basic medical care. Because they were. They needed to keep their workers, right? You wanted to keep them working. That was. That would be bad. Like bad investment. Bad investment. Right? So, you know, putting a person in, like, the worst despicable condition ever being enslaved, of course.

2:04:39 But even in that paradigm there was some guarantees. Mhm. Now we have a society. Now they want us to be modern day slaves with guarantees. Yeah, yeah. No safety net whatsoever. Not even water. Not even clean water. We're not even considered an investment right at all. We're considered chattel cattle. That's the contrast I was trying to draw. Yeah.

2:05:02 Is that the idea then? In the in the most lucrative, productive time and most wealth ever and most productivity ever through mechanization and technology. Right. We have people now not even guaranteed that level of security, right? Like we said on bus benches at night and dying. What if your husband gets in a car accident? Exactly. God forbid. Yeah.

2:05:25 Right. Head injury. And he's. He can't. He can't do what he used to be able to do right now. Maybe some insurance and stuff will kick in. You have some kind of back fall, but that's going to. That's going to drain. That's not forever. It's not forever. And now we're yet right. It could be you could be headed towards the fucking poorhouse.

2:05:43 You could be, because you're in competition with your life. Your income potential has been slashed and there's no safety net, no social safety net for the basics. Well, and there's always something that there's something, even if you go as a symbol of term as a like, we don't even have to delve into like, what if you know, what if you died?

2:05:59 What if car crash happens? You can be like, what if you know his one investment fund tanked? Yeah. Or what if automation continues and his job gets deprecated? Exactly. You know, like he was in sales and, like, that's. Yeah, it's going to be very soon that they start looking into like, not because they already pay you crap and get away with working you overtime by paying you commission.

2:06:21 Right. But, you know, like it's only a matter of time before they figure out how to do that even cheaper. So I think there's some I think there's some clear ways that we could actually fix the problem. So like outline a whole bunch of problems. Now going back to abortion, you know, how might this be able to be fixed like permanently rig the system, fix the universal basic income would have an appreciable effect on every one of these things we've just mentioned.

2:06:41 I'm just saying care universal basic income, health care. I mean universal child care, basic income. There's a card of things that you can, like, literally pull out and be like, this will literally help everything. Yes, yes, it'll it'll fix it. Well, it'll help get everything on the right track. But as many people say these days, common sense unfortunately, is not very common anymore.

2:07:04 Yeah. So so to subvert the the new the new abortion restrictions, right. In these different states where people, some people would have to travel hundreds of miles to, to get an abortion and that's, that's going to be cost prohibitive for many people. So now these groups are already kind of popping up talking about they'll pay for travel, right.

2:07:19 And all this kind of support systems are starting to try to emerging in society to try to offset this. What a lot of people view as a change to the to the abortion laws. Well, so there's this idea of taking federal land and putting abortion clinics on federal land within all these states so that people can then go to that, to that federal place to have their federal abortion rather than them.

2:07:42 That's kind of cool. I had the idea of why not? Why not open up Indian reservations and sovereign nations that are within here to as abortion clinics and pay them handsomely, the government then they put a voucher into the government that pays or, you know, a voucher system. They have technology, they have. Then we actually have to admit we did things wrong.

2:07:59 Oh, right. That one. That's not something people like to do. That's good to have to measure a couple Billy. They have, you know, pill form abortions as well. They have like you know, now pills that are young enough, early enough on the pregnancy will terminate the pregnancy. Right. So there's a, you know, mail order perhaps kind of option there.

2:08:17 Right. There's well, that's been happening. That's been happening. Yeah. There's some countermeasures like kind of coming online. The idea of ending the filibuster for this one thing to change. And Senate, you know, change the rule to I think it's worth it. You know, I think ending the filibuster should have been done a long I mean, they would have gotten a lot more done whenever they had room to do it.

2:08:35 The majority. Yes. You know, in order to like, make that into federal law, what we need to do is, honestly, this is one thing me and my conservative family member truly agree on is a we need to um, and it's gone and it'll come back. It'll come back. You guys keep going. Yeah. So I'm thinking of like solutions then to the problem.

2:08:58 Right. The problem of like people maybe having risky, dangerous abortions, you know, trying to do back alley illegal channels, right, to have their abortion. These different than massive, big, big scale solutions to this now problem created by this change in Rome. Right. It's back. Go ahead. It is. It's a I think one of the biggest issues we have is we had, um, back in the day, you know, when you had politicians, even presidents, this wasn't their career.

2:09:23 They, you know, they were farmers. They were, um, builders. Construction, like, they were members of the community and they had actual jobs. This was their their duty as opposed to their career. Right. Today we have career politicians. Yeah, that's a good point. We don't have any term limits. And that's how they ended up buying everything. And we became this kleptocracy I said it, do I get something?

2:09:49 Yeah. That's balloon swap. Ding ding ding ding ding. The civilians up there 500 times 500. Yeah. You guys got confetti stuff. This whole thing was just this whole entire thing was just to get you to say that word. Elaborate scheme, right? Yeah. It was a that was just rolled around on your tongue. How's it feel, skydiver coming in with the banner flying and, like, right marching for that airplane.

2:10:14 Yeah, yeah. People are parachuting in. There's a guy that chicken suit, you know, you got an eagle. There's a theme song and an accordion. Oh, we brought John Cena in with his pet eagle from peacemaker. Good to see. Yeah.

2:10:32 Coming again. See your motherfucking money. Oh! Divide and conquer. Every fucking on their photography. Yeah. Division is the only way. Yeah. Oh, damn. Consumerism. Your game is true. No, you have to answer to see. Fuck. Yeah. You know what we just got gotta hit on our hands. So we call it dudes.

2:11:01 Oh, yeah. Weird al is weird. Al just got a twinkle in his eye. I could have had a career as a as a Weird Al type music. I truly could have. Yeah, he's the songs I make up to my kids. You guys real time in the car with the kids? Yeah. Have them cracking up. Yeah. You guys are both good.

2:11:17 If anyone heard it, they wouldn't understand his band to like things, right? Yeah. My wife and I have our own language, like, because we can, like, um, basically refer to things, shared experiences that we've had. So. Yeah, that, like, nobody else would know what the fuck were talking about. Like, we could speak in code. Isn't that like being in a good and happy marriage?

2:11:36 Like, literally have your own language? I think that's a part of it. I can tell my husband something with a wiggle of my like, eyebrow just. Yep. And he's like an entire. And he was communicating and we just do it. Yeah, yeah. You just get the abortion if you can't see. I nodded my head. I forgot there's not a camera, I mean, dude.

2:11:57 We've both been we've all been doing that. We've all been kind of sitting here. I honestly, I was nodding our head, all talking just now, and I was like, we should really get a camera and just put it on our hands like, no faces. Nobody's just like from the top watching because all of you, every time we're talking, we're picking up things.

2:12:14 We're talking, we're like all over the table. And it's just so no one sees a run for their money, top of our heads, right. We're just wildly right. And yeah. From earlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's jokes that get missed without some video. That's correct. Right. It's true. That'd be the one way to do it. And just like we can then just have like a later, a later video of saying, look at these ridiculous things we did with our hands.

2:12:41 All right. So I'm back to solutions, right? Yeah. Uh, I'll keep us on track. On track. Even though you even though you want to take a you want to take us off the rails. Off the rails. I'm going to keep us on track. Check me out. Wednesdays at nine.

2:12:57 That's not. That's not a good time. It's just the time selection. I'm gonna stay at home, mom, so I gotta just do it when I can. There we go. There we go. I will randomly show up. And if you happen to be there. Right? Right. You can just come to my party two days earlier, I did this, so it's it's perfectly consistent.

2:13:14 So at least the timing of when this thing happens has to be off the rails as well. So it's it's in perfectly. Yeah. So um, solutions. Right. So like, think about this, um, what I call earlier the sacred domain, like kind of food, clothing, the basic needs of human beings, including that health, healthcare, right. Education, the things that we sort of basics, um, take this industrial complex, take the greed, if you will, and turn it on its head.

2:13:39 Make the make the payouts or the incentive locked into the outcomes of these various systems. Right. So like the nutritional disposition of this certain group of people in this area, the industrial, the agro industrial complex that's over that okay gets paid more if they're people in that area are properly, properly is. Yeah. So your food dialing conversation earlier starts to automatically shift because the actual like nutritional compliment in that person's bloodstream.

2:14:11 Well, Monsanto is setting up farmers markets, right. Because that's providing the nutrition for the people. And then these agro industrial complex will have an incentive then to actually market and healthy foods and positive, you know, healthy lifestyles and nutrition and nutrition education. So what we need to do is turn the greed on its head when you make the payouts, be with the great outcomes for people.

2:14:34 Right. See, so like in the medical system, it's like, hey, you can still be greedy, but you can kind of help people while doing it. Right. You're right. So Medicaid pays for outcomes, right? So the person when you come in with a broken leg, right. They put a cast on it right after a certain amount of time. It's healed.

2:14:50 Maybe some physical therapy. And there's an outcome. The person's broken leg went from broken to now fully healed, right? Documented. And if it's within this statistical window, statistical like, you know, we would call well-heeled, then they get the maximum payout. So the Medicaid or whatever the system is pays to the hospital authority. The maximum power question here, is it going to be like, okay, maybe on a corporate citizen sort of basis?

2:15:15 We're like, well, you get your corn subsidy if you meet these metrics or you get this subsidy, all incentives and metrics met, you know? Right. So like, okay, so now now you have like the um, so so you start taking care of these basic structures, education. Your your school gets better funding and with better outcomes. Right. The better the better, the better educated the children, the more funding for the for the for that.

2:15:38 And I think you've got to have people continuously looking at the metrics so people aren't gaming the system. Well, of course these are the things I have to meet, you know. So right. And the government becomes a regulatory body of doing the measurements right. That becomes a big function of government is to properly measure and allocate the awards based on.

2:15:55 So what we do is we instead of incentivizing pure profit, we take this sacred domain and we incentivize outcome for for the population. Right. If you if you have a reduction of food insecurity in this, in this region, then the, you know, governing authority there, the whatever the corporations get higher pay. This is the feeling I've always had that that's what China does.

2:16:17 I don't know, I think to some extent, yes. Yeah. And you know, I kind of admire it in that it does incentivize and drive people, but it also has a dehumanizing component. And so we have to be careful of that for sure. So we're talking about incentivizing like where you put the reward is is very um instrumental on behavior and outcome.

2:16:39 So the classic example was that there were these captains that were bringing the prisoners from England to Australia. And what they do is they charter boat, they'd get a loan and everything to, to do it right. They'd load up, they'll say 150 prisoners and they would, they would get paid and they would bring them to Australia. What was the metric they got paid on?

2:16:58 Well, they had 150 bodies, let's say, on the, on their prison ship. Okay. Yeah. And they would take those 150 people and they'd get a payout a certain amount per head and 50 survived. Well no no no no. So like they'd get paid in the port, they get paid in advance because they had to supply their ships. That was the deal.

2:17:18 Mhm. And so what happened was you'd have maybe five people show up, five prisoners show up and the rest were shark Bay because they wouldn't feed them, they wouldn't take care of them. They went blah blah blah, right. Wow. So what they did is they shifted the money to Australia. You got paid by how many people would show up?

2:17:32 How many prisoners show up alive? Yeah. And survived for a month or whatever being said to have those numbers jumped over 150 people would board in 150 people would get off the boat healthy and ready to go. That goes back to my argument on what you could do, like with irresponsible gun owners. Like if you make these things when it involves money, people comply more.

2:17:52 Yeah, I know that sounds terrible and controlling, but but it's true. It people will comply and money is involved and money incentives don't work for everything, but they work for most things well. And right now our money incentives. Yeah. That's why. That's why a fine is only illegal if you aren't rich. Like something that requires is illegal and requires it needs to be proportional is only bad if you don't have money.

2:18:15 It needs to be proportional. It needs to be okay. That that uh and they do this in some Scandinavian countries if say that moving violation is three days of your income. Right. You know, as opposed to 35 bucks. Right. You know, so by shifting the incentive, what I was talking about with that sacred domain food, clothing, shelter, water, healthcare, etc., you make those, you make those complexes, those industrial complexes be paid for and incentivized by outcome.

2:18:43 Right? So the better the outcome for people, the more those industrial complexes get paid. Right. You see, and so that's how we then create that sacred domain for society. So there's a baseline now when it comes to like consumer driven products like you know you're buying an iPad or a Galaxy buying and that's that's free market capitalism. Extreme like we don't care.

2:19:04 That's that's the wild West. That's that's subject to like whatever the best marketing campaign is. Whatever. Right? That that stuff that doesn't affect actual health and wellness, core core function, human function, human need, all that extra stuff is Wild West, the trappings of society. And, you know, you can use it as badges of status, whatever. But, you know, I, I think what I was saying earlier, also, Lindsay, was that, you know, I feel like we almost have a model for how to incentivize and outcomes and get them from a government by looking at what China does.

2:19:39 But we have to be careful to not dehumanize people like they've done and just be stuck on the metrics. But you can take I that's that's what I'll never understand, is how people can see so many other developed countries in the world. We literally have beautiful examples of how certain policies that we've talked about in this episode, just it it can work.

2:20:03 Yeah, it can work beautifully. Yeah. Your immunities can thrive. Yes. But you're in that small segment of the bell curve. Most Americans, the majority in the middle, like, you know, what's a foreign country, right? Oh, shit. The Americans are notorious for not having much of a worldview, that culture. Culture. Speaking of cultural shift that we we're we're some of the least traveled as far as industrialized.

2:20:24 And that's because the disenfranchized, again, have been kept disenfranchized. But the marketing team is so good, they don't realize that there being. And we go back to the same people who there you said we may have been geographically more than we could chew. That's another point of it. It's it's not as quick to get to another country with a different culture and a different viewpoint as it is if you're in Europe, which by in nature, by naturally will have different kind of worldview.

2:20:51 Yeah. Like, I like the concept of what the United States could be. Um, You know, we could have we have incredible potential. We have incredible potential, you know, and all these this ability. You have one federal government and you have several states, you know, these 50 states that, um, have the ability to make their own decisions, um, you know, within reason.

2:21:12 Sure. And that in itself should be a beautiful idea. Mhm. Like and it was, you know, I mean the people who may have had those ideas might not have been the best people in the perspective, in the perspective grand scheme of things. But yeah, that was brilliant idea. And we have at certain points thrived as a society. Yeah.

2:21:32 Well I mean you stifle the masses with these channels that we talked about. You stifle the masses and you make it so simple. Like you say, this person says, yes, universal healthcare makes total sense and you get people to think it through. And even the ultra right wing, you know, Christian and says, yeah, absolutely. That's a great thing is they need it.

2:21:50 Yeah, yeah. Ah, Poor as hell. By default they need it. Red states have the, you know, the lowest statistics, the highest statistics for teen pregnancy. There we go. So the way you get them to the way you get them to vote or stand up against themselves even is say, oh, well, an illegal might be getting that same healthcare.

2:22:06 No. All hail. No. Nope. Cancel. Yeah. See what I'm saying? We'd rather. No. But again if then that they're Mexican get it right. And so that's exactly how that that kind of ideological camp to be a brown and legal though I think they'd be okay with the white. It can't be Frenchmen. So that's why we need to find a way to break the the stranglehold, if you want the grip right on these ideological camps.

2:22:30 And to me, the answer is to, um, for me, it was an independent, completely abandoned party. I'm not a Democrat. I'm not a Republican, 100% not affiliated with the party. Have you seen Designated Survivor? I have no. Okay. No, it's exactly that. And it it was beautiful. Really? Yeah. And so there's a there's an energy budget that I now need to spend.

2:22:52 My speaking points aren't automatically made for me. Yeah, right. Yeah. And now I have to commit the energy to finding out which myself philosophy is cherry picking that what you feel is good and right and then take even. The harder thing is to advocate for it and then along ties into your, you know, pass the buck in the air.

2:23:14 But that's what people do instead, instead of sitting there going, okay, let me think about this. Or like it's in God's hands, right? Right. Well, what you say, let Jesus take the will and you end up in the ditch. Yeah, yeah, because no one's driving, y'all. That's why there's there's that goes a little deeper. Not just in the ditch, but, um, that idea, that idea goes a little bit deeper.

2:23:37 What that is, is it's a stab at the ideology. Because what you're saying is that everybody knows. Everybody knows everybody, I don't care. The most devout Christian, right? Damn well knows that if they close their eyes and let go of that wheel, what's going to happen? They are going to crash. They know it. But you know what? Their Bible might survive the car.

2:23:57 Oh, I bet it will. And they will hang on to that if they make it fireproof, right? Oh, nice. Um. Burnable Bibles. Dude, maybe we should do that. Make a we can make our money through people. Make money through vice stocks. We can look at this as a vice. We can supply all these people with everything they need.

2:24:16 Yeah. All right, gentlemen. Well, as this conversation has been, it's 100 and fucking degrees outside, and it's fucking one at 1 p.m.. Yeah, it's fucking insane. Fantastic. That's good. We can call that a wrap. All right. Well, again, I appreciate it. Well thank you. You and I mean, obviously, we enjoyed the hell out of here. We wouldn't have sat here for 2.5 hours.

2:24:36 Right? That was good. I appreciate you like, like I said, letting me infringe and invite myself into any time. You're welcome. That was. That was fun.